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Tech Sinestro Vortex with and without Trait

Vulcan Hades

Vulcan Hades

Champion
Update. Sorry it took a while but I wanted to test to make sure everything really worked + I was testing other stuff kinda related to this but not really lol.

Anyway, to make everything a lot simpler I decided to cut everything down to 3-4 simple Vortex sequences.
  1. hit confirm xx Shackles, b3, fj2, walk, 1b23, dash -> j1/j3
  2. b13, b3, fj3, late b12 xx Shackles, fj2, wait a tic -> j1/j3
  3. (trait juggle) xx Shackles, j2, 1b23, dash or hit confirm xx Shackles, b3 to d3 -> JI Trait/Axe of Terror/J1/J3
  4. Combo into BG Interactable

The first 2 ones are the best ones because they require no trait at all. The second one has the advantage of denying wake up options (it's basically an improved version of the standing reset thanks to Pig and P2W). The third one requires trait because the cross-ups are obvious. This vortex is weaker but still necessary.

If trait is used and hits in either V1 or V2, then they can no longer be looped because of gravity scaling. In which case, you would fall into V3 or V4 until you can go into V1 or V2 again.

Basically, there are 5 combo enders:
  • B3-1B23
  • J2 Standing Reset
  • D3
  • 1B23
  • BG Interactable
And there's 6 main hit confirms/starters:
  • 22
  • f2d1
  • b13
  • Axe of Terror
  • MB b3
  • Trait juggle
Here's a video showing all the ways to get to those enders when possible from the various starters:


And I think that's it! Now this thread finally feels complete. :)

Pig Of The Hut
LEGEND
WoundCowboy
JHCRANE 14
PLAYING TO W1N
ApertureBlack
CitrusBlueBottle

Become Your Fears!
 
Pig Of The Hut

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
Vulcan Hades

so when i end combos off of this

ji2 b13 ji3 b12 shackles ji2 <---here i can do a cross up w one of these?

or should i do this now?
ji2 b13 ji2 1b23 dash cross up ji3?

Also ending that same combo w 223 grants me a few cross up? 1 ji1 and ji3?
 
Vulcan Hades

Vulcan Hades

Champion
Pig Of The Hut said:
Vulcan Hades

so when i end combos off of this

ji2 b13 ji3 b12 shackles ji2 <---here i can do a cross up w one of these?

or should i do this now?
ji2 b13 ji2 1b23 dash cross up ji3?

Also ending that same combo w 223 grants me a few cross up? 1 ji1 and ji3?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure, I'll have to test those.

I forgot to mention this but the timing and the gravity scaling is super important with some of these. The combos that end with d3 or the combos that hard knockdown while the opponent is standing always have the same frame advantage. But if you hard knockdown someone who is already in a juggle state then the gravity scaling will alter frame advantage, sometimes pretty significantly to the point where you can't cross-up anymore or the opponent gets up super fast.

For example:

j2, 111 xx Shackles, b3, early j2, walk, 1b23

You can't add more hits to that or it will increase gravity scaling. You also have to time j2 and 1b23 just right so that you can have enough frame advantage and have access to the most ambiguous jump in after a dash.
 
Vulcan Hades

Vulcan Hades

Champion
btw I just picked up Sinestro and I didn't know 111 was -8 on block LOL. That sucks considering Sinestro doesn't seem to have a safe special to go to on block.

I assume 22 and f2,d1 would be better for hit confirming. And 111 would be used for punishing.

EDIT: Unfortunately, using 22 or f2d1 for hit confirming alters spacing significantly and makes all the NJ2 setups less effective. 22 xx Shackles puts you closer than 111 xx Shackles. And f2d1 xx Shackles puts you at max B3 range.
 
LEGEND

LEGEND

YES!
Vulcan Hades said:
btw I just picked up Sinestro and I didn't know 111 was -8 on block LOL. That sucks considering Sinestro doesn't seem to have a safe special to go to on block.

I assume 22 and f2,d1 would be better for hit confirming. And 111 would be used for punishing.
Click to expand...
111 is almost useless, all hits are high, it doesn't link to Shackles in juggles, its punishable on block and it has shitty range

i would only use it as very specific punisher
 
Vulcan Hades

Vulcan Hades

Champion
Updated first post with more information.

I think I'll have to re-upload the videos or make a new vid to go into spacing details.
 
prospic

prospic

Apprentice
I don't think it sould called a reset because they can escape it after the knockdown. Maybe I'm testing it wrong?
 
Vulcan Hades

Vulcan Hades

Champion
prospic said:
I don't think it sould called a reset because they can escape it
Click to expand...
MK players think resets need to be inescapable because of Cyrax and Smoke lol.

A real reset is supposed to be a blockable 50/50. You insert a mixup mid combo. That's a reset. A standing reset has the advantage of negating wake up options. If something is unblockable/inescapable, then that is not a true reset though they both have the same purpose (to reset the damage scaling).

edit: Just to be clear, Shackles, NJ2 -> ambiguous cross-up that's the reset I'm talking about. The other setups cause a hard knockdown which of course makes them not a reset. But they all work together and can be looped, hence the vortex.
 
prospic

prospic

Apprentice
It can call a 50/50 blockable mixup that leaves u at negative. What happends when u get blocked? Your at a negative and risking a lot .also throwing trait. Its usefull and I would called it mickey mouse you doing. And yes I'm a mk player, is that a problem?
 
Vulcan Hades

Vulcan Hades

Champion
prospic said:
It can call a 50/50 blockable mixup that leaves u at negative. What happends when u get blocked? Your at a negative and risking a lot .also throwing trait. Its usefull and I would called it mickey mouse you doing. And yes I'm a mk player, is that a problem?
Click to expand...
As I said in OP, I'm new to Sinestro and I didn't know 111 was -8 which is sadly full combo punishable by everyone.

Obviously you'd want to hit confirm with 22 or f2d1 instead. Or use trait/MB f3/b3 to make 111 safe.
 
DangerousBacon

DangerousBacon

Mechanical Engineering Bitch!
prospic said:
It can call a 50/50 blockable mixup that leaves u at negative. What happends when u get blocked? Your at a negative and risking a lot .also throwing trait. Its usefull and I would called it mickey mouse you doing. And yes I'm a mk player, is that a problem?
Click to expand...
I don't think he ever implied that being an Mk9 player was a problem. He just stated that some of you are misinformed on what a reset actually is.
 
Vulcan Hades

Vulcan Hades

Champion
I just noticed, some of the fake cross-ups don't seem to work at all on Killer Frost and possibly other small characters like her. Either that or you have to time the ender differently on her. I'm not sure yet.

And as I suspected, 22 xx Shackles, NJ2 doesn't allow any ambiguity which is sad. So the setups starting with NJ2 into 1b23/223 will only work with 111 xx Shackles, but thankfully those are the weakest setups. And you can still use 22 xx Shackles for NJ2,b13 and b3.
 
Pig Of The Hut

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
Vulcan Hades said:
I just noticed, some of the fake cross-ups don't seem to work at all on Killer Frost and possibly other small characters like her. Either that or you have to time the ender differently on her. I'm not sure yet.

And as I suspected, 22 xx Shackles, NJ2 doesn't allow any ambiguity which is sad. So the setups starting with NJ2 into 1b23/223 will only work with 111 xx Shackles, but thankfully those are the weakest setups. And you can still use 22 xx Shackles for NJ2,b13 and b3.
Click to expand...
Lol

Another tool of Sinestros doesn't work on frost? You dont say......lol
 
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