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Should we stop talking about nerfs?

Alright so I'm preparing my self for the hate on this one but I'm hoping some people can agree. Since this game has come out there has been a significant number of nerfs to characters, this has lead to heated arguments and leaving some players angry their characters got nerfed. This community plays a big part in what gets nerfed and what doesn't. Nether realm listens to the fans with this stuff, example: batgirl hotfix, the major deathstroke nerfs. But some being needed some not, but my question is should we allow nerf discussion on this thread. Due to the fact that many of these people don't have the best understanding of this game, now I am not in any way perfect, but I do believe this should be left to high level players and developers, that's my proposal. This community has a lot of influence and should be better monitored.

A lot of influence on this post came from this video, someone with much more credibility than myself




http://www.youtube.com/user/TequilaMockingburd

And no I don't type my signature out everytime, im using Tapatalk app lol

#hopeforhood
 

RWDY Nori

Where is crossplay?
The only nerfs that should EVER have happened were glitches and infinites. Nobody, including DS, ever needed a nerf. It's just the overall FG community now is ruled by the online casual gamer and because they can't adapt, it's easier to nerf. It's disgusting and I'm glad there is some hope left
 

Duck Nation

Dicks with a future
Nobody, including DS, ever needed a nerf.
I'm honestly not sure this was true, even as a DS player. They overdid it - DS could get five frames back on his low shots without breaking anything - but they were pretty insane to start. Hard to say, now that they're gone and not coming back.

As for the topic of the thread, I don't think there really needs to be much in the way of nerf talk because the top half of the cast is actually pretty well balanced all against each other. Some of the very tippy top characters might need to be adjusted downwards a bit just on damage still, but nothing else. Buffs should be the order of the day, because it's the bottom half/third of the cast that requires attending to.

Perhaps a shorter way of putting that would be simply to say, if you are suggesting they stop patching the game, I absolutely cannot agree.
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
Nobody, including DS, ever needed a nerf.
Cant say i agree. Have you played against vanilla DS ? You had a character who could chip you to death from full screen and when you got close he had safe 50/50 mix ups which made you lose 40% of your life if you got hit, without meter. I totally agree with the dmg nerf they gave him. His gun shots shouldnt have been nerfed though. DS is still super solid, he just requires more thinking and less spamming now.

Also DD's trait nerf was totally unjustified IMO.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Nerfs? Not particularly necessary however just buffing people would really make the game stale out. Think of it this way, correct or improper as it may be: Buffing the lower tiers means that those people have access to the new content but will not instantly become viable. The top level, where people already are, will remain unchanged. Once the lower tiers finally do get up to the higher tiers, they will know exactly how to fight those top tiers because they've never changed, but it wouldn't be the same for the other side. This would make the lower tiers seem overbuffed in comparison to what was already the set level of the high tier.

Now lets look into the idea of nerfing and buffing. When you nerf the upper tiers, everything shifts a bit. Other high tiers have better MUs while the nerfed have to look into more options than what they had used before and may end out more effective because of it. Nerfing is the improper term, its more of a "less braindead" swap onto their kits. It forces them to use more of their character than what they already had. At the same time, buffing the low tiers brings them closer to the top where things are shifting and changing, and at any point one of them could very well become a contender. The game is being patched consistently, sure, but the changes as a whole are somewhat small and only affect one aspect of a character whom should have more than just that one option at their disposal.

The idea of only nerfing has its merit in everyone being on the same level as the lowest person, but never receives any real plus points with the communities because, lets be honest, no one likes to see their characters get nerfed.


That's just my view on it, but I feel like what they are doing judgement wise isn't as bad as everyone says. They are tweaking things that need to be fixed based on how the game is performing on a huge scale. Mind you, this scale is much much larger than what they had access to previously so its a given that many small changes would be needed. We cry now because of this and that, but the game is still young and there will be more patches later on. NRS has basically given their oath to adjust whatever they feel is necessary. Its not just the casual consumer base since, as its known, they brought no one but the top fighting game players in to mold the game. They are trying to find a nice middle ground where people can play the characters on both levels and it works both ways. Wait until they say "we are no longer patching" and THEN complain about what you see. Until then, everything is up in the air and they are trying to ease into the changes rather than simply mass-haul a batch of nerfs and buffs and then hope that it doesn't cause the engine to fail. You complain about -5 on low guns? Imagine, if you will, if instead of that one change they had loaded off a huge amount of changes all at once. The character would be completely different and everyone would complain "Oh he plays like this and that now, but I chose him because he played like whathaveyou.". They are being careful to bring everyone in line with everyone else eventually and make the game accessible at all levels for all players, but in different frames. I, for one, wish more people would do it like this. Maybe then Kano would still exist if they'd done it like this before.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Cant say i agree. Have you played against vanilla DS ? You had a character who could chip you to death from full screen and when you got close he had safe 50/50 mix ups which made you lose 40% of your life if you got hit, without meter. I totally agree with the dmg nerf they gave him. His gun shots shouldnt have been nerfed though. DS is still super solid, he just requires more thinking and less spamming now.

Also DD's trait nerf was totally unjustified IMO.
Why are you a hypocrite? You want less cool down on Doomsday's trait, yet "more thinking and less spamming" for Deathstroke. Doomsday's trait is the equivalent of no thinking and mashing.

Besides, Deathstroke never did 40% combos unless you are talking about pre-first day patch.

b+1,u+2, f+3, 3,2,3, f+2,3 xx sword flip does 33% of damage.

b+2,2 xx MB sword spin dash sword flip does 23% of damage.

Deathstroke is the most "normalized" character in the game, you fool.
 
Maybe it's because Scorpion isn't a zoner and is an anti zoner. Zoners are seen as much more cheap and spammy in the eyes of casual players aaaand a to a lot of competetive players aswell. Because Scorps is rush down based they don't feel he's a spammer, if you nerf a zoner people are like "Oh boohoo your spammy character is nerfed learn to adapt" but if a rushdown character or anti-zoner is nerfed everyone is like "Screw this they are unplayable now". This is coming from a Lex and Grundy player, both characters who lose hard to quite a few zoners and pre patch zoners (DS) yet I myself can see that people are more annoyed at Scorps nerf because he was easy to beat zoners with who give many players trouble :V
 
Don't listen to this guy, he used to main.......

>_>


<_<



Big Daddy.
Used to main? I still do, I just like playing other characters now too (Emmett and Tooth) :3

And I don't see how that changes my point about people not being fussed by zoners being nerfed but going mental if a non zoner is :V
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
Why are you a hypocrite? You want less cool down on Doomsday's trait, yet "more thinking and less spamming" for Deathstroke. Doomsday's trait is the equivalent of no thinking and mashing.

Besides, Deathstroke never did 40% combos unless you are talking about pre-first day patch.

b+1,u+2, f+3, 3,2,3, f+2,3 xx sword flip does 33% of damage.

b+2,2 xx MB sword spin dash sword flip does 23% of damage.

Deathstroke is the most "normalized" character in the game, you fool.
I said VANILLA version so yeah i meant unpatched version. His damage is fine now. You misunderstood me, I also didnt agree with the nerfs he got in his gun shots, i wrote that in my post above, but still that doesnt mean he isnt solid. Look at how Aris is performing with DS. So you are saying that DD's trait lasting 5 seconds and having 15 seconds cd is a justified nerf dave ?
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Yeah um...no :V

The game is alive a bit again on a new site but it seems as tho support is now gone for it so probably no more patches

Anyway sorry for off topic.
Feh. I thought about recycling the old site for whatever reason I may have but I need to get tempest to pass me ownership.

Anyways yeah off topic. Soz.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
I said VANILLA version so yeah i meant unpatched version. His damage is fine now. You misunderstood me, I also didnt agree with the nerfs he got in his gun shots, i wrote that in my post above, but still that doesnt mean he isnt solid. Look at how Aris is performing with DS. So you are saying that DD's trait lasting 5 seconds and having 15 seconds cd is a justified nerf dave ?
Deathstroke is overrated and you are like two weeks late. Aris has been losing to Sinestro and The Flash lately. Players are learning how to fight Deathstroke. He is not that good any more.

I do not mind Doomsday's trait being a little bit better, but do not come into this thread and complain about Deathstroke.
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
Deathstroke is overrated and you are like two weeks late. Aris has been losing to Sinestro and The Flash lately. Players are learning how to fight Deathstroke. He is not that good any more.

I do not mind Doomsday's trait being a little bit better, but do not come into this thread and complain about Deathstroke.
Let me get something straight. My only complaint about DS was his vanilla dmg and only that. Since that was fixed i have no problem with the character. Read my posts better next time.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Let me get something straight. My only complaint about DS was his vanilla dmg and only that. Since that was fixed i have no problem with the character. Read my post better next time.
You stated that Deathstroke could chip characters full screen away to death. I did not know that pre-patch Deathstroke was O.Sagat.

Maybe you need to re-read your post better next time.
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
You stated that Deathstroke could chip characters full screen away to death. I did not know that pre-patch Deathstroke was O.Sagat.

Maybe you need to re-read your post better next time.
Nothing compares to O.Sagat. It was a figure of speech. What i meant was that you had a character which could deal good damage from afar with gun shots, it was hard to approach him, especially with big characters and when finally you were up close, you had to deal with 50/50 mix ups which dealt 40% dmg and you were thrown full screen again. And once again i tell you, THAT I DONT AGREE WITH GUN SHOTS BEING NERFED. Hope i was clearer now.