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Should NRS legalize custom variations for competitive play? (Poll)

Should NRS legalize custom variations for competitive play?


  • Total voters
    313

Xelz

Go over there!
#1 Casual statement of the thread.

Kroaken: Too many things to remember.

Starcraft 2 player (or any RTS, which have a FAR bigger mainstream audience): Hold my beer...

Ever heard of "the fog of war (FOW)"? Fighting games don't have to go through that even with it's limited tools. Know how many units a single faction has and how many different ways they can be used in Starcraft all while applying The FOW?
I think you and Kroaken are actually on the same page. Still, good post though :)
 

dennycascade

UPR_ghastem
They could simply balance things by making certain moves cost 2 slots or bundling certain moves together, no reason to keep things confined to 2 (or possibly 3) premade variations which will never be on the same level as one another. I’d argue that this would actually make balancing the game simpler. When a combination of items gets out of hand, they could just alter the slot price of something to balance out their kit. Let kotal use his totems.
 

grandabx

The Flameater
I really recommend you re-read my post, friend. These are the arguments of the anti-kustom krowd. And they conflict on a basic level. Which is hilarious to me. If you've been around, you'd know I've been for kustom variations the whole time.
The way you wrote your post is the reason I replied. There's nothing there indicating the opposite. You can rephrase it like:

"Not liking customs is one thing, but being on both sides of the fence with too much to remember and 1 OP combo is hypocritical."

It's all good though bro.
 

Kroaken

Life is a block string with no gaps.
The way you wrote your post is the reason I replied. There's nothing there indicating the opposite. You can rephrase it like:

"Not liking customs is one thing, but being on both sides of the fence with too much to remember and 1 OP combo is hypocritical."

It's all good though bro.
Fair enough. I thought it was clear :) mb.
 

Ayx

Omnipresent
I don't get why people are annoyed of customs being locked for Competitive play. The amount of matchups and setups would be insanely high to even bother comprehend for tournament play. There's about 8 moves give or take but all it takes is one gimmick-like move in your disposal to change the entire game around that the person doesn't predict and that's it. People don't realize competitive play needs to reflect a tournament-like setting. The game is being learned at a fair pace atm. People are learning SZ's setups, people are realizing more and more what the A+ tier chars are working on etc. Some characters just completely transform with the custom moves and that's per character.. with a 25 +(coming soon) char roster currently.

The amount of frustration people will have because they didn't prepare for the matchup is crazy. I was toying around w/ Cetrion's aura modes for fun and noticed how hilariously OP they are. Her Ring of Fire aura does damage overtime around the ring but what people don't realize his that at midscreen (not even going to start talking about her crazy corner game w/ the ROF), at the expense of her defense meter and 1 offense meter you can do a midscreen restand combo into aura, and if you do a forward throw and the opponent does not have knowledge on this 1 specific setup, for some reason it triggers her KB and can deal 35%+ with minimal effort. This is only one situation not counter some like her water aura that allows you to block on HIT if you're in the ring. Basically giving even more control of the zoning screen. For people saying "well just nerf it l0l" that's what they'd need to do for every character with all the wacky custom moves. It will 100% be a bigger headache than people think and will be a huge case of "be careful what you wish for.".
 
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Jynks

some heroes are born, some made, some wondrous
I just feel there is no "good" answer here. NRS is damned if they do, damned if they don't. No matter what they decide a part of the community is going to cry and moan like a bunch of children.

So in a situation were taking any side just pisses off the other, I think NRS should stick to their own design ideas and ignore 100% of everything people are saying and trust in their original design plans. They can't please everyone, or even large portions of the community with going either way on this.. so imo, they should just stay the course.
 

Kroaken

Life is a block string with no gaps.
I just feel there is no "good" answer here. NRS is damned if they do, damned if they don't. No matter what they decide a part of the community is going to cry and moan like a bunch of children.

So in a situation were taking any side just pisses off the other, I think NRS should stick to their own design ideas and ignore 100% of everything people are saying and trust in their original design plans. They can't please everyone, or even large portions of the community with going either way on this.. so imo, they should just stay the course.
I've talked about this before elsewhere, but you're right. You can't please everyone. I think it's clear that kustoms would please more than they'd piss off, but moving on as is - tournament sets wouldn't have stung as bad if a lot of them weren't trash. Kano, for example, got one combo variation and one... Randomly thrown together variation. It definitely gives off the feel of being rushed/not well thought out.
 

Jynks

some heroes are born, some made, some wondrous
I think it's clear that kustoms would please more than they'd piss off
Maybe, but that is arguable. One of the things about how social media works as an amplification of how communities work in real life is that complaining is louder than happiness. The squeaky wheel gets the grease and all that. No one writes a page of rant, followed by 500 posts of agreement about how good something is, well people do but not nearly in the same numbers. The very nature of how we communicate is about what should be changed. It may feel like the majority are on one side of an issue, but if it was the other way around it would feel like the other side had more support as they would be more vocal.
 

Shirakani

BBQ on Scorpion's head
Firmly on the 'yes' side here.

If you artificially gimp characters like they are now, there's FOREVER going to be "what if" scenarios. And by that I mean ppl going 'I didn't lose to you, if I had <ability> I'd have won!' or 'you only won coz my character didn't have his best moves!' etc etc.

Salt? Probably. But so long as there are artificial chains binding the characters, there will never be CONCLUSIVE wins.

Allow ppl to play their characters with a loadout they prefer/play the best against another side playing their best will leave no room for doubt whatsoever at the end. A win is a clear win, no more excuses. If you lose, YOU lost, not because your character had one proverbial hand tied behind their back.

I miss MK9... back when characters had COMPLETE, FLESHED OUT movesets...
 
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Kroaken

Life is a block string with no gaps.
Maybe, but that is arguable. One of the things about how social media works as an amplification of how communities work in real life is that complaining is louder than happiness. The squeaky wheel gets the grease and all that. No one writes a page of rant, followed by 500 posts of agreement about how good something is, well people do but not nearly in the same numbers. The very nature of how we communicate is about what should be changed. It may feel like the majority are on one side of an issue, but if it was the other way around it would feel like the other side had more support as they would be more vocal.
That's a fair point. I'm just a little salty that Dirtbag ended up being so bad :p
 

Johnny Based Cage

The Shangest of Tsungs
Premium Supporter
I die a little inside every time I watch a video of some dope shit in this game only to realize after that it was just custom variations. And the worst part is how imbalanced and slapped-together this tournament variation shit already is anyway. Hell, you can’t even practice these variations without manually going in and swapping every single moveset out, so it’s pretty blatant that these were a last minute, panic mode decision based off of what little faith they had in the final hour of their ability to pull off the whole entire concept that they decided to base this game around.
 

Geoffmeister

PS4/EU Ermac main
See...

I would've loved to see this, I'm pretty sure we will regardless but the way it's gone down now, it's set us up for disaster:

Scenario A) the current plan is to swap abilities later down the road to keep things "fresh and balanced"... Every time this happens another patch will (probably) have to roll out. But most importantly, people will drop the game if these changes are too drastic...

Scenario B) you have all these animations and game-mechanics present in the game, and it won't ever be shown because they're not included. Now with the (warranted) popular request to have Kustom Tournament Variations, NRS can "give the fans what they want", and then shit will also backlash HIT the fan.
Everyone'll be happy for a good 60 mins until they go verse variations they've never seen before, bunch of stupid tools that have no purpose in a competitive fighting game is gonna send us back to MKX.

But this time it'd be even worse, because MK11 being NRS' most neutral-focused game will drown in offensive BS.

What players/devs decide to do about THIS determines MK11's future and it's realistically not something to be decided within the the first month of release.

The game was developed with Scenario A in mind... so I'm gonna say... No... Let NRS work with what they have right now, stick to the plan, sort out balance, make it their best game yet... (and I say this reluctantly) I'm interested in seeing this happen too, but let's not risk what NRS got right now... we don't need kustom variations to get the best out of it, just small changes.
 

MalevolentFix

Sombody gonna clean this up?...
Royal Contributor
There is absolutely no reason for anyone who plays this game to be against custom variations in competitive. TO's can just ban broken combinations. Some of the hypest tech and brutalities/KBs are locked behind this "Tournament Variation" garbage and I hope NRS realizes they stand to gain nothing by controlling how competitors play their game.
 

Xentex

Noob
What's to stop anyone who organizes a tournament from saying "all variations welcome, we're not limiting it to NRS's so-called tournament variations"?
 
What's to stop anyone who organizes a tournament from saying "all variations welcome, we're not limiting it to NRS's so-called tournament variations"?
Nothing, but it would still be ignoring the massive community of people who want to play ranked matches. And splintering the tourney scene into those events that accept custom variations and those that do not isn't a great idea for anyone involved, IMO.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
What's to stop anyone who organizes a tournament from saying "all variations welcome, we're not limiting it to NRS's so-called tournament variations"?
No big tournaments can do it because NRS sets the rules for the pro tour. You could absolutely do it for a local, but it's doubtful how many people would come to compete if it wasn't using the official ruleset.

I think the best place to do this right now is online. It'd be pretty fun to have a big internet tournament with custom variations legal and see what happens.
 

Invincibeast

Stay Free
What's to stop anyone who organizes a tournament from saying "all variations welcome, we're not limiting it to NRS's so-called tournament variations"?
I think a large thing that would stop that is the time needed to go into editing every variation needed before every single match since there isn’t a quick way to build a loadout from the character select screen
 

Xentex

Noob
I think a large thing that would stop that is the time needed to go into editing every variation needed before every single match since there isn’t a quick way to build a loadout from the character select screen
Doesn't seem like that big a hurdle to me if people are really passionate about how valuable it would be to the community.

If it's an online tourney would anything at all need to be done? You can already play online with any build you want. And I'd think allowing all augments would go along with that.

If it was a local tournament you're only going to have 16 or so players, and wouldn't really be a huge problem to give each player 10 minutes to create their own custom variations.

If it's totally awesome everyone will love it and NRS will say "yeah, that does look awesome, let's do it." If it ends up having a handful of broken or severely unbalanced variations then NRS knows what they have to fix before they consider some kind of "ranked freestyle" mode.
 

ZeroSymbolic

Human Thumb
That's a hard no for me. It wont open up the game. Pros will discover optimized loadouts and that is what everyone will adopt and run. It will be harder to balance, and make most of the stuff useless. The result will be a more limited game not a more creative one.
 

Invincibeast

Stay Free
Doesn't seem like that big a hurdle to me if people are really passionate about how valuable it would be to the community.

If it's an online tourney would anything at all need to be done? You can already play online with any build you want. And I'd think allowing all augments would go along with that.

If it was a local tournament you're only going to have 16 or so players, and wouldn't really be a huge problem to give each player 10 minutes to create their own custom variations.

If it's totally awesome everyone will love it and NRS will say "yeah, that does look awesome, let's do it." If it ends up having a handful of broken or severely unbalanced variations then NRS knows what they have to fix before they consider some kind of "ranked freestyle" mode.
Online wouldn't matter since everyone already has their stuff set.
But look at what you just said, even if a local of 16 players has 10 minutes EACH to set their variations ( and is that just one character, or also any pocket characters they have that may add more time?) which would already come out to 160 minutes aka 2 Hours and 40 minutes JUST to set up.
No one is going to want to do that, nor have the extra time if a venue is being paid out.

I'm all for custom variations, I want them to be allowed just as bad as anyone else because I have a pretty sick Kabal load out that does 320+ one bar anywhere on the screen and can zone like a MF.

However, until NRS makes selecting a move set from the character select screen possible, I don't see offline custom tournaments being a possibility.
 

trufenix

www.youtube.com/thetrufenix
Since when does NRS decide whats legal in our community. Just run the tournament yourself if you've got so much confidence in Custom Variations.