Should Event Streams have a subscription cost?

[Jynks]

So I'm a super casual player. The truth is I watch people play the game more than I actually play. Kind of like how I enjoy basketball, but only play it a little with my brothers when we dump the wives once every few weeks.

Anyway, I have been following the fighting game event scene for years now and I have started to think that maybe the event organizers should charge for the live stream, maybe even for the vods themselves like GSL dose.

Starcraft and LoL/HoN are huge esports. I mean LoL filled a frickn football stadium recently. I think I am not alone in thinking that fighting games could also achieve this level in the decades to come, become a legit esport. Anyway, many of the big organized leagues are able to exist because of paid community support.

Anyway, a event is hours and hours of entertainment. Lets put this in relation to a film, say 3 hours for a modern blockbuster. Is say charging 5 bucks really out of line, all that work, all those players needing support. Organizers able to devote more time, get more gear, offer larger pools more coverage.... .. .

Sure there would be viewers lost. Still I look at some of these streams with 10-20,000 people and I wonder. Even if everyone paid 2 bucks to join in, the entire "scene" would get a huge shot in the arm.

Ok I know.. I know...

Lets not just be reactionary about this. I know many of the fighting game crowd are old coots like I am and remember when the internet was a bastion of free information and privacy, the entire idea of paid internet content is slightly abhorrent. Still, take a moment to really think about this as I am interested in what the community might think. I do not think I am alone in wanting to see fighting as a esport grow, yet even though there is massive progress, is paid subscriptions a required step?

 

[MrProfDrPepper]

....... no dude, just no, the subscription is there for emotes, that is all you need, that would make it so much harder for people to watch, this idea... IS FUCKING RETARDED it gives the game LESS EXPOSURE and overall is INSANELY HOSTILE TO VIEWERS. just. no.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Theres been like 50 threads on this before lol.

Most streams actually have subscriptions, but they just give you the right to chat in the chat rooms. Forcing people to pay to watch would hurt the streamers more than anything because a majority of viewers wouldnt bother to pay.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

Consider the demographic of other eSports games you mentionned, then look at the FGC struggle

 

[Jynks]

Most streams actually have subscriptions, but they just give you the right to chat in the chat rooms. Forcing people to pay to watch would hurt the streamers more than anything because a majority of viewers wouldnt bother to pay.

Well I am not really talking about general streams. I mean major events. Having paid subs has done nothing but improve the other esport scenes, not the other way around.

Also I am not sure that is true. I think there would be a drop of, especially at first, but I think people would still pay. I know I would, as long as it wasn't something crazy.

 

[Juggs]

Not for fighters. We need to get new people interested and watching, we need to build the scene. 'Most people don't know what they want until you show it to them', type of thing. It works/could work for LoL and other really big games because the fanbase is ridiculous, fighters aren't there yet.

 

[Jynks]

I tend to agree with this.. maybe it is not big enough yet.

 

[haketh]

Not for fighters. We need to get new people interested and watching, we need to build the scene. 'Most people don't know what they want until you show it to them', type of thing. It works for LoL and other really big games because the fanbase is ridiculous, fighters aren't there yet.

LOL doesn't even charge & the big DOTA2 ones that do you can still watch for free on Twitch but not in client.

 

[Harlequin969]

For this to also work we'd need a universal company to be the streamer. LoL works because Riot is the super giant company and they then branch out in various countries but all under the RiotGames banner.

For fighting games, we have all sorts of games under various companies that can't flourish to that level on their own. Capcom hosting a major Street Fighter event solo wouldn't bring in the numbers that say ETC would showcasing all of the games it does because the Street Fighter community alone isn't as big as the FGC nor does it make up the community.

If they all did it serpeately the competition would hurt the FGC too much. Plus there would be a shit storm legally. By this I mean Capcom, Netherrealm, Iron Galaxy/Microsoft, etc fighting over who gets paid what if there was an overseer streamer.

 

[Farpafraf]

 

[GAV]

No, but it should have commercials.

 

[Jynks]

Is it a necessary step though at some point?

Like I work for a living. I know how much my time is worth, and yes at the moment there is a "love of the scene" thing driving everything. Yet can that be enough.

I would love to hear from some event guys. Take a look at the "goodbye" letter for ECT founder SweetJonnyCage. At some point, people need to leave to a "real" career. Running something like ETC or TCW or w/e must be a massive undertaking, the pressure, the financial strain.

It seams to me that if there is going to be serious inroads to improve the scene, have yomi style houses supported for many groups and organizers having the scene as actual legit jobs, some kind of change might have to happen eventually.

For this to also work we'd need a universal company to be the streamer. LoL works because Riot is the super giant company and they then branch out in various countries but all under the RiotGames banner.

This is actually a really good point. Most of the large esports are united under single leuges. Still, so is "real" sports. No one goes to the football and wonders why they can not watch baseball.

 

[catscratch]

Terrible idea.

You want as many people viewing as you can, so that you can approach sponsors and say "look, we have a steam that gets 20k each week!" That's how you get sponsorships, that's how you get more money into your scene, and that's how you grow. If you put your stream behind a paywall, sure you'll get a bit more money coming in from subs, but you're also going to kill your viewer count, and sponsors will never come.

The FGC's strength is it's uniqueness. While most esport games are trying to emulate TV networks in terms of presentation the FGC remains resolutely grassroots, at least excluding things like the ESL. That's a unique selling point, and the idea of streamed content that's more edgy, has more reality-TV flair and is more oriented at adult viewers can be an advantage in of itself. That is, as long as you don't go down the alcohol/tobacco/adult entertainment industry sponsorship route, because NO BUSINESS wants to share advertising space with those guys unless it's part of that group already.

The only issue is that fighting games these days are niche. Something like Hearthstone has a ton of casual appeal hence the views are high, while LoL is as much to do with an artificially manufactured scene driven by massive cash investments from the developers as it is with anything else. Fighting games have been played by most people at some point but legitimately cared about only by a few. So you're essentially persuading people to care instead of catering to viewers that already want to watch.

It's the same issue that arena shooters like Quake have. The pros are there, the talent is there, the legacy and history are massive, and you have people that can put on events and have experience in running things. You just don't have the views, since the games are so niche nobody cares. Everybody remembers playing Doom and Quake at one point but nobody actually cares enough to watch. Except that at its worst the FGC still gets 10x the views so the situation is not as bad as shooters yet.

 

[Harlequin969]

The problem with your idea is simply our community as a hole is just not that large. Because we're small we can't afford to charge money for non FGC members to even witness the game. That'll turn people away rather than get them interested. If one day the FGC reaches levels of Riot or Valve then maybe we could start. MKX being in the ESL helps us move toward that direction but still it'll be a long time before we charge for these things. At the same time we have to buy the game to begin with.

So the companies behind the FGC are still getting funded to make new games. If you want the streamers to get paid, that's what the sub or donation button is for. If they do or don't have one then that's up to them. So I guess the question is, who is the money supposed to go?

 

[Zoidberg747]

No, but it should have commercials.

They all already do.

 

[GAV]

They all already do.

Not just the Twitch ones, but ones that bring in capital to make the tournament profitable.

 

[Audit]

For your poll to be valid it has to say just "yes" or "no" with no other connentations.

 

[Shark Tank]

LOL doesn't even charge & the big DOTA2 ones that do you can still watch for free on Twitch but not in client.

The biggest one is also free in the client too.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Not just the Twitch ones, but ones that bring in capital to make the tournament profitable.

I have never watched a stream that did not have commercials. If such a thing were to exist, I would really like to see it.

 

[Charybdis]

I personally would love to pay for streams that start late or not at all, cut out and have organisers calling viewers 'mongoloids'. Who wouldn't ?

I agree that people need a real career. That's why this is a hobby

 

[Jynks]

I personally would love to pay for streams that start late or not at all, cut out and have organisers calling viewers 'mongoloids'. Who wouldn't ?

I think part of my point is that this wouldn't happen in paid streams.

 

[Charybdis]

I think part of my point is that this wouldn't happen in paid streams.

Where's the proof of that though? Put money in an assholes pocket and he's still an asshole. Besides then you'd just get a situation where some subscribers defend the streamer to the death because they pay him and can't bear that they might be wrong.

In any case, why should I pay for a service to go professional when the people who run it are often extremely unprofessional? To support the community? I support my own scene.

It's like if I cook meals for my friends that I serve with side dishes of dog shit and start asking them to pay.

Right now paying for streams us an awful idea. It would destroy the market, slow the games' progress and encourage streamers and organisers to think even more of themselves.

 

[AK Black Preon]

Here's the problem with that. I don't think there is a single Major that has had all of its content on ONE stream. There's so many games that have to be going on crammed into three days and sometimes two. Now you could have people pay subscription fee, but then as we know some games don't get the same timeframe. If I like Tekken then tough luck, I won't be getting the same amount of view time as MKX, Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3, USF:IV. That and the fact that those big games, we are paying for ONE event. For league its ALL LEAGUE, ALL THE TIME. Some people like all fighters but lets be honest, most of us have our few that we like and ones we could live without.

The whole Riotgames argument that was brought up earlier works for them because they set the sanctions for the streams, the payout, the bracket, the venue, when it goes down, how many go down, have the money to back it up, have multiple a year, have a larger install base, free to play game, team based gameplay.

With league and most MOBAs or RTS Games matches for those things can go on for 40+ minutes easy, you get your money's worth and then some. In the FGC I can see whose next on the bracket. Make a sandwich. Come back and I'm already seeing the pop-off because its over in 5 minutes (2 out of 3 style). That and even TEAM based sports are usually more well received than individual sports. That goes double for e-sports. I mean look at the FPS tournaments. Very seldom do they run a big 1V1 major. Usually you come for the 4v4s and the 5v5s. So there's a lot working against the FGC.

And on top of it all there's no brand consistency. In all the other big tournament genres Halo/Call of Duty/League/DOTA/Starcraft etc. their streams have that consistency. You don't have all these "the internet at the venue isn't that good" or "I can't find which stream MKX is on" type of problems. You have the same circulation of commentators for each event respectively. Sometimes in the FGC the commentary is just "Pow pow pow, zip zip and the zoop zoops." "Yo' scoope'm homie" "Yo he think he winning with that hat on? Yo get out of here" while not contributing too much to the actual match. Now I'm not saying everyone else's commentary is perfect. What I am saying is how long would it take you to list everything that varies from one league tournament to the next is a lot shorter than the time it would take for you to contrast EVO and ECT from TCW and Final Round. Its a lot of things that just don't work with the current infrastructure of the fighting game community.

We could get into the retention rate thing but that's that dark area that the FGC can never fill.

"YO WE AT 35K VIEWERS LETS GO BABY" - MKX TOP 8
*Stream drops to 30K*
"We're getting a word from today's champion"
*Stream viewership drops to 19K*
"NOW WHO IS READY FOR TEKKEN TOP 8"
*Stream drops to 15K*

or the game you wanted to see next is some secondary stream somewhere else.

 

[MK_Al]

I have no doubt that charging for streams will cost at least 2/3 of the viewers, which will in return not only damage the FGC, but the organizer as well, for they need the viewer numbers to gain sponsorship and make money with commercials. I don't think thats a good idea.
Altough I could afford it, I personally would never pay for a stream. I have enough expenses already and there's enough content for free to watch.