Tech Shazam HM*mb resets

[TemperingMoon]

Thanks For the SHAZAM Tech Bro! It'll really help me lay it down when tourny time comes around. ;-)

 

[pogse]

Thanks For the SHAZAM Tech Bro! It'll really help me lay it down when tourny time comes around. ;-)

You are welcome! I wish you luck and successful resets.

 

[pogse]

I think it can be somewhat practical in a real match say if you land a f2, 2,3 (or 2, 2 or f1, 2) and then HM MB because IIRC, MB moves can not be clashed (someone please correct me on this if not true).

Yes I think 2 hit MB specials cannot be clashed, not sure if it has to be raw or also inside a combo.

The ambiguous reset is practical for most of the cast, other wise I do HM*mb to ji HM*mb into full combo if I have meter; usually against characters with both sided wake up to mess up their inputs (excluding DS, but if you see him opt/mash sword spin you could bait out the swordflip then punish by going the otherside).

My Shazam often gets to situations where I have 2 meters/last round and I get a hit off an air to air or d2 (this is against walk back characters/players) which leads to 20% more or less damage. not enough to kill and gets me back to playing their neutral game, the reset make them play shazams game again (if you opt for HM as a combo ender).

It doesn't assure you wins (sometimes it will), but it raises your chances especially if you get a life lead.

 

[Uber]

I still dont see too much value in this. Off of F22, you are giving up about 15 damage plus vortex so just so you can get a different vortex. It would be decent to throw out as a gimmick against ignorant opponents, but once the opponent learns about this, its no longer really worth doing.

My Shazam often gets to situations where I have 2 meters/last round and I get a hit off an air to air or d2 (this is against walk back characters/players) which leads to 20% more or less damage.

You should be getting 28-30% off of D2 and even more off of air to air.

Against grounded opponent:
- D2, J2, D2xxHM MB, B3, J2, AC or -28%

Against Airborne opponent:
- D2, J2, 3xxHM MB, B3, J2, AC
- A2A J2, 3xxHM MB, B3, J3, 2xxAC


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[pogse]

I still dont see too much value in this. Off of F22, you are giving up about 15 damage plus vortex so just so you can get a different vortex. It would be decent to throw out as a gimmick against ignorant opponents, but once the opponent learns about this, its no longer really worth doing.

You should be getting 28-30% off of D2 and even more off of air to air.

Against grounded opponent:
- D2, J2, D2xxHM MB, B3, J2, AC or -28%

Against Airborne opponent:
- D2, J2, 3xxHM MB, B3, J2, AC
- A2A J2, 3xxHM MB, B3, J3, 2xxAC

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Please elaborate and the ambiguous-crossup is not a gimmick against certain characters.

Uber
That was one situation I gave where I could opt for the reset against certain characters. if you prefer the damage plus AC vortex and have more success then do not go for this reset.

I used to this to test effectiveness in long sets offline, before I put it out and it is not easy to see the timing on the ambiguous crossup; they did figure out the crossup than I switch opted for the non-crossup so they went back to guessing. again this is against certain characters.

 

[Uber]

The crossup itself isnt a gimmick. The fact that you are dropping the combo and going for a 50/50 earlier than normal is the gimmick. When they learn to expect the 50/50, it loses effectiveness, because you get a 50/50 at the end of a full combo into AC anyways.

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[pogse]

The crossup itself isnt a gimmick. The fact that you are dropping the combo and going for a 50/50 earlier than normal is the gimmick. When they learn to expect the 50/50, it loses effectiveness, because you get a 50/50 at the end of a full combo anyways.

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Cool.
the 50/50 at the end of the combo requires 1 more meter to convert, this does not. It doesn't lose effectiveness, it will still be a 50/50. same with the AC ender, all depends on how opponent reacts to oki.

 

[Uber]

Cool.
the 50/50 at the end of the combo requires 1 more meter to convert, this does not. It doesn't lose effectiveness, it will still be a 50/50. same with the AC ender, all depends on how opponent reacts to oki.

While it is true you need a second meter to continue the vortex into combo, you will still do about the same damage with 1 meter doing full combo, and, most of the damage will be guarenteed.

F22, HM MB, B3, J2, F223xxAC - 39%
+
Meaty HM - 11% = 50%

F223, D2, F223xxHM MB - 26ish i think
+
J2, F223, D2, F223xxHM - dunno, like 28?

So you gain a couple extra damage but risk losing half of that if you guess wrong. The damage isnt even close if you have two bars. Doing full combo into AC reset results in almost 80% into vortex, while your reset only gets around 65 to 70% into vortex.


Plus this is only considering the reset off of meaty HM. If you end up baiting the wakeup after AC with a crossup J2, the damage is 39% + 45% = 84% into AC or 39% + 49% = 88% from HM ender.

I suppose i could see some value in this tech if you had one bar and you needed that little bit of extra damage to make the kill. Other than that though, its probably not worth giving up full combo damage up front.

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[pogse]

While it is true you need a second meter to continue the vortex into combo, you will still do about the same damage with 1 meter doing full combo, and, most of the damage will be guarenteed.

F22, HM MB, B3, J2, F223xxAC - 39%
+
Meaty HM - 11% = 50%

F223, D2, F223xxHM MB - 25ish i think
+
J2, F223, D2, F223xxHM - dunno, like 28?

So you gain a couple extra damage but risk losing half of that if you guess wrong. The damage isnt even close if you have two bars. Doing full combo into AC reset results in almost 80% into vortex, while your reset only gets around 65 to 70% into vortex.

Plus this is only considering the reset off of meaty HM. If you end up baiting the wakeup after AC with a crossup J2, the damage is 39% + 45% = 84% into AC or 39% + 49% = 88% from HM ender.
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None of these are guaranteed. The 2bar reset from AC and HM*mb results to 76% both, and if you go for 3 bars and making the right reads this reset can go over 100%. if you get that read than cool and you opt to play it things damage first guaranteed. this is not the case for some.


I released this tech as another alternative from a HM*mb combo ender not to replace your AC ender oki game. If you don't find any room for this tech in you gameplan than ok. I also opt for AC ender on some of my combos to mix things up and keep them guessing, this is me and no I do not go for HM*mb all the time.

 

[Uber]

The damage on the reset isnt exactly the same. Its similar if you only consider the meaty HM reset. You are forgetting that the other part of the 50/50 reset is usually landing a J2 or F22 after baiting wakeup. This results in 6-12% more damage. The fact that more damage is guarenteed off of the initial hit is pretty important too.

Not trying to stop you from using this tech, i just dont see myself ..using it. The risk/reward ratio just doesnt seem efficient. I tend to evaluate all my options by looking at the percentages, but i know this isnt always the best because opponents never play perfectly.

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[pogse]

The damage on the reset isnt exactly the same. Its similar if you only consider the meaty HM reset. You are forgetting that the other part of the 50/50 reset is usually landing a J2 or F22 after baiting wakeup. This results in 6-12% more damage. The fact that more damage is guarenteed off of the initial hit is pretty important too.

Not trying to stop you from using this tech, i just dont see myself ..using it. The risk/reward ratio just doesnt seem efficient. I tend to evaluate all my options by looking at the percentages, but i know this isnt always the best because opponents never play perfectly.
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Yeap, its kinda risk it first before reward as opposed to get reward than do risk (AC). I like how you approach shazam. if by some chance you face an opponent(not in a tournament) that knows the shazam(random reads) matchup well, give this ender a try as it really isn't hard to implement.. or not pretty sure you already have refined alternatives for these kind of situation as you play very... prepared.

 

[Uber]

I think a tournament is where'd id most likely want to use that crossup. Gimmicks can be great in small sets. Its an option that most people wont be used to. By the time they figure it out, it might already be over.



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[pogse]

I think a tournament is where'd id most likely want to use it. Gimmicks can be great in small sets. Its an option that most people wont be used to. By the time they figure it out, it might already be over.



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Good point. Glad this can be randomly useful to you

 

[Uber]

Good point. Glad this can be randomly useful to you

Ill keep this tech in mind. As soon as i see they can block the crossup though, im dropping it.

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[pogse]

Ill keep this tech in mind. As soon as i see they can block the crossup though, im dropping it.

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Sure man, I would probably do the same. difference is I'll attempt it again next set non-crossup then maybe drop for the set if fail... then pick it up again

 

[SaJa]

Ill keep this tech in mind. As soon as i see they can block the crossup though, im dropping it.

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Delaying the dash before ji2 you'll fake crossup. It would ever be a 50/50.

 

[pogse]

Can you do the cross up thing in the corner. Cause this would be really awesome to do after a big corner combo.

Corner version

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

I know I'm sort of necroing a dead thread, but I just wanted to say that I did use this in tournament and it works great.

I find it's useful when you do background bounce combos so that you don't lose any damage. In this instance I did:

B23 > 1 xx Background Bounce > B3 > J3 > 2 xx HM MB

then dash under, jump over crossup into

J2 > F223 xx Background Bounce > B3 > J3 > F223 xx HM (i thought I had meter to repeat the mixup but I didn't, if I realized I would have ended in AC)


It's right at the start of this video:

does @pogse even still post? lol

 

[pogse]

I know I'm sort of necroing a dead thread, but I just wanted to say that I did use this in tournament and it works great.

I find it's useful when you do background bounce combos so that you don't lose any damage. In this instance I did:

B23 > 1 xx Background Bounce > B3 > J3 > 2 xx HM MB

then dash under, jump over crossup into

J2 > F223 xx Background Bounce > B3 > J3 > F223 xx HM (i thought I had meter to repeat the mixup but I didn't, if I realized I would have ended in AC)


It's right at the start of this video:

does @pogse even still post? lol

Yeah I'm still here lol.
totally agree, you really optimized it there. I don't have good stage awareness yet to do stage combos like this.
maybe you can expand this http://testyourmight.com/threads/stuffing-specific-wakeup-specials-ac-d3.39415/
I haven't been in the lab at all. but maybe d1 to AT after ac can be a good option for slow startup wakeups.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

Yeah I'm still here lol.
totally agree, you really optimized it there. I don't have good stage awareness yet to do stage combos like this.
maybe you can expand this http://testyourmight.com/threads/stuffing-specific-wakeup-specials-ac-d3.39415/
I haven't been in the lab at all. but maybe d1 to AT after ac can be a good option for slow startup wakeups.

I'll have to mess with that.

 

[Shawi]

haha Yeah I noticed that when you uploaded it on youtube. But you're right as it is not really worth it off a naked hm