Shao Kahn custom variation

[Pyrosis]

Really just a topic to mourn the fact that with the custom variation patch, Shao Kahn still doesn't get anything impressive... Air projectile.. I guess. Pretty disappointing to see all these guys hyped about their character with the custom moves and we get like nothing.

 

[PetulantWaste]

There's not really anything to complain about yet. The balance patch hasn't been released yet. In terms of kustom moves I could easily see Shao with skewer, dark priest, and maybe up hammer or air hammer?

 

[Pyrosis]

Unless these moves are altered in some way they're still not that good in a different combination like what you've said here. Up hammer is only useful to chip out. Air hammer is unsafe if blocked, and no way to mitigate it being unsafe.

Both taunts and ground shatter are all useless. Dark Priest doesn't buff Skewered or Spear Charge, because they're both spear and not hammer moves...

 

[Darth Mao]

Skewered, Dark Priest, Annihilation

 

[stokedAF]

My custom kahn is annihilation and both taunts. Picking your KB will be different for kahn.

 

[Pyrosis]

I wish that these were both super good variation choices but neither seem any better than the tournament variations that we have already. I don't think Shao gets any custom that is better than Realm Destroyer.

 

[stokedAF]

Yeah his extra moves are ass, that’s why I run both taunts. I wish he had cooler specials and annihilation was a standard move. I’m still overall really happy with how he turned out. Even in the beginning when he was shit on.

 

[Lex Luthor II]

Is Shao Kahn still considered to be one of the worst in the game? If so that sucks the custom variation change won't help him much, I always wanted to try him but am turned off by what everyone says about him.

 

[ticklebandit!]

Skewered, Dark Priest, Annihilation

This seems like a fun build, I need to try it out.

I've just been running V3 but with up hammer, only because up hammer seems like the safest move to end with if opponent blocks (most people seem to not know how to punish it). I never played v2 but do people get much mileage out of staggering ground pound?? Like if your opponent expects you to enhance? It really should just be safe on amp tho.

Another yolo build i tried for fun was dark priest, air hammer, and the mid hammer projectile. It was poo tho as it only added like 1% (if that) to the projectiles after dark priest was activated. Not to mention the un safeness. :/

I agree that Shao still needs help and the current custom moves don't really provide that.

 

[Kiss the Missile]

I was excited to see what I could do with Shao's customs, then I remembered he has 4-5 moves where he just throws his hammer differently. Still insane to imagine this game gave Liu Kang a command grab, but not Shao Kahn

 

[Evil Canadian]

Shao Kahn is like the character that deserves a command grab the most

 

[Pyrosis]

Is Shao Kahn still considered to be one of the worst in the game? If so that sucks the custom variation change won't help him much, I always wanted to try him but am turned off by what everyone says about him.

Unless he or his moves are changed in some way with the patch he will fall even further behind the rest of the cast. The custom patch doesn't benefit him basically at all.

 

[Slymind]

I was excited to see what I could do with Shao's customs, then I remembered he has 4-5 moves where he just throws his hammer differently. Still insane to imagine this game gave Liu Kang a command grab, but not Shao Kahn

Maybe they will give him some amplification on some of those moves to add more flavor.

 

[Pyrosis]

Pretty much only gets the air projectile as anything useful, and even then if you use it at any range closer than a little bit larger than starting distance or closer it's just death on block...

 

[NoCharge]

One undeclared change he got was seeking hammer got a little more advantage on hit on airborne opponents so now a d2 is guaranteed and d1 easier to combo into. My loadout is annihilation, dark priest and seeking hammer. But I'm dropping him for now. It's ridiculous how NRS neglects this character.

 

[Pyrosis]

Imo it's better to drop the annihilation/dark priest combo for more utility.

Here's the loadout I'm trying:

Despite it being legit ass, the air projectile at least lets you keep your gigantic ass hitbox in the air for a little longer, and sees some use in some matchups. It's not a "good" move by any means, if your opponent is quick on the uptake then it's a full combo on block at any range except almost full screen. Jump 2 into air hammer controls a good amount of screen space, but nothing amazing. It does have SOME utility though and it's better than nothing, so imo a worthy include.

Second, I go Skewered because IMO is legit the best move that he has at his disposal. One of the best armor breakers in game, so it's a must include to ensure that you get your damage in because it's so hard to open up your opponent.

The final slot is more or less a flex spot (all about equally "good"). Seeking Wrath Hammer is decent, it's one of the better projectiles in the game since it hits the opposite direction so at full screen it becomes very, very fast. It also provides essentially a teleport "counter" for teleports like Scorpion, Noob Terminator.., if they think you're going to throw a spear and teleport and you've launched the Seeking Hammer instead, they will be hit out of their teleport every time.
Second I'd go in this slot is Ground Shatter, even though it's essentially a gimmick it has it's uses especially to end combos leaving the opponent standing and you +7, pretty good in the corner but otherwise it's a overhead/low gimmick with F2 and S1,4.
Last, and most meme-y is Ridicule. Make no mistake there is literally NO set up that allows you to get this out safely but there are cases where the opponent may not be expecting it's use since is basically a dead move. Actually getting the debuff out on the opponent is very, very good though. In most cases it's a better idea to do Ridicule to debuff the opponent's damage because you're extremely likely to get punished for the taunt. The F3,4+Grab krushing blow is extremely powerful but predictably hard to land. If by some miracle you get the debuff on them you CAN combo into the krushing blow for insane damage: 46% with Humiliate and 40% with Ridicule. The only way to get this out even remotely safely is sending them full screen with 2,3xxTaunt at the end of the combo (still -FORTY-FIVE) or ending a combo to send them full screen with 2,1,2 or F4. Again.. You'll prolly die for attempting this, but the benefits are pretty nuts. Especially if you get out Humiliate then land a full combo.

This is still nowhere near enough to make Shao Kahn consistently viable comparative to the rest of the cast. I got EXTREMELY frustrated seeing no changes other than what every character got for him at launch and dropped him, but I've been playing him a bit again. He still struggles hard but has some options to... basically continue to struggle with.

 

[Error404]

I've dropped all customs and run regular old Risen Emperor. All of the projectiles are dead moves in so many match-ups , that they're barely worth using. Atleast Up-hammer lets you setup meaty jump ins , chip outs and is decent against cornered opponents when spaced.

Skewered is alright , but ultimately you're only getting unbreakable combos from KBs and certain launchers that scale pretty heavily . To
get the most out of Skewered you have to pair it with Spear Charge , which is inferior to shoulder imo.

The only other move I consider is ground shatter instead of up-hammer.

 

[Pyrosis]

I've dropped all customs and run regular old Risen Emperor. All of the projectiles are dead moves in so many match-ups , that they're barely worth using. Atleast Up-hammer lets you setup meaty jump ins , chip outs and is decent against cornered opponents when spaced.

Skewered is alright , but ultimately you're only getting unbreakable combos from KBs and certain launchers that scale pretty heavily . To
get the most out of Skewered you have to pair it with Spear Charge , which is inferior to shoulder imo.

The only other move I consider is ground shatter instead of up-hammer.

IMO Shao requires the player to create multiple matchup-specific loadouts. I would say that of all the hammer toss variations that Seeking Wrath Hammer is definitely the most consistently useful.

For me I find Up Hammer has been exposed long ago as fully reactable on block with a teleport or trading an uppercut rewards the blocker a trade of 14% for only 5%. If you want a meaty jump in from the Up Hammer mid-screen you're sacrificing either damage or a hit of Merciless Spear and building your 1,2+Grab KB. Mid-screen ending a combo in F4 is the same advantage as ending in up hammer, with a little more push back so harder to get a jump in. In the corner, ending in F4 is the same advantage as ending in Up Hammer, a little less damage but doing these things allows you the same meaty jump in without having to take Up Hammer which is only situationally useful at best.

In defense of Skewered: I would say its definitely the best anti-air special move in the game at a base level first off. It's better with Shoulder Charger than Spear Charge because of the guarantee that having both options give you. In short, Shao Kahn basically HAS to get his damage in when he gets an opening. You can condition breakaways in two different ways with this set up: If you find they are breaking early as possible to avoid getting Skewered after the Shoulder Charger's AMP, you can bust their fast breakaway with Shoulder Charge+Down and get your full combo anyway. If they fear the Shoulder Charge+Down you ensure you get your damage with Skewered after the launch. Having only Scum Grab guarantees you 28% you get get their breaker after Shoulder launch and spend Scum Grab's AMP. Skewered gets you 31% in the same scenario if you want just damage but here's where Skewered starts shining even more: if you get their breaker with Skewered after the launch you still have the opportunity to combo into a Merciless Spear afterwards to build your big KB or even continue on into Fatal Blow, something that Scum Grab can't do. With Shao you have to either get your damage or build your Merciless Spear KB and having Shoulder Charger armor break and Skewered armor break basically guarantees that you'll be unbreakable on every touch. Pairing it with Spear Charge, IMO, is actually less optimal than with Shoulder Charger

The problem I find with the Risen Emperor set up now that customs are legal is it's essentially like having a two slot move equipped. The Dark Priest buff is not so useful without landing the Annihilation KB. And if you're not running Skewered like you say the chances that you will: 1. Have the buff up. 2. Open them up. 3. They don't have Breaker up. All in order to get the KB is pretty slim.

Here's a comparison of the damage of a basic 1 bar BnB between the buffs/debuffs, though we all know Humilate is harder (not by much) to get out than Priest:
Base: 306.94%
Dark Priest buff up: 312.04%
Humiliate debuff up: 383.67%

For one slot you get two debuffs and access to a very devastating KB just like with Dark Priest/Annihilation but the difference being you don't have to take another move to get the Taunt KB like with Dark Priest. Dark Priest/Annihilation KB takes up two slots and the damage it rewards can be broken out of. Landing the Humiliate KB is an unbreakable 40% KB and CAN be combo'd into if necessary, comboing in the corner with Humilate up is predictably devastating.

 

[DixieFlatline78]

When I play Shao Kahn I usually use Spear Charge, Skewered, Air Hammer

Spear Charge may not have as many neutral applications but it's honestly a really strong launcher. If you connect it mid stage, you get his corner combo. If you connect it in the corner, your follow up does 40%+. Getting them to the corner is usually my end goal with Shao Kahn. He can really harass the opponent and cut off their escape options if you stand just outside the Timer.

Air Hammer can help control certain angles defensively and float him as he tries to get past zoning.

 

[Pyrosis]

When I play Shao Kahn I usually use Spear Charge, Skewered, Air Hammer

Spear Charge may not have as many neutral applications but it's honestly a really strong launcher. If you connect it mid stage, you get his corner combo. If you connect it in the corner, your follow up does 40%+. Getting them to the corner is usually my end goal with Shao Kahn. He can really harass the opponent and cut off their escape options if you stand just outside the Timer.

Air Hammer can help control certain angles defensively and float him as he tries to get past zoning.

I agree that Spear Charge is effective in that it can lead to good damage and corner carry. My main problem with it is that the damage doesn't justify losing the utility and effectiveness of Shoulder Charger. Shoulder is faster starts in 16f active for 2 vs Spear Charge starting in 19 active for 4. A lot of the time Shoulder is an unreactable check. Catching opponents out with D4 into charge is better with Shoulder... Not that it matters much since they're both death on whiff/block but Shoulder is 10 frames fewer recovery. One of the bigger downsides for Spear Charge for me is that it's Amp comes out on block.

All in all I suppose the choice between the two could come down to if you want damage or utility

 

[Error404]

IMO Shao requires the player to create multiple matchup-specific loadouts. I would say that of all the hammer toss variations that Seeking Wrath Hammer is definitely the most consistently useful.

For me I find Up Hammer has been exposed long ago as fully reactable on block with a teleport or trading an uppercut rewards the blocker a trade of 14% for only 5%. If you want a meaty jump in from the Up Hammer mid-screen you're sacrificing either damage or a hit of Merciless Spear and building your 1,2+Grab KB. Mid-screen ending a combo in F4 is the same advantage as ending in up hammer, with a little more push back so harder to get a jump in. In the corner, ending in F4 is the same advantage as ending in Up Hammer, a little less damage but doing these things allows you the same meaty jump in without having to take Up Hammer which is only situationally useful at best.

In defense of Skewered: I would say its definitely the best anti-air special move in the game at a base level first off. It's better with Shoulder Charger than Spear Charge because of the guarantee that having both options give you. In short, Shao Kahn basically HAS to get his damage in when he gets an opening. You can condition breakaways in two different ways with this set up: If you find they are breaking early as possible to avoid getting Skewered after the Shoulder Charger's AMP, you can bust their fast breakaway with Shoulder Charge+Down and get your full combo anyway. If they fear the Shoulder Charge+Down you ensure you get your damage with Skewered after the launch. Having only Scum Grab guarantees you 28% you get get their breaker after Shoulder launch and spend Scum Grab's AMP. Skewered gets you 31% in the same scenario if you want just damage but here's where Skewered starts shining even more: if you get their breaker with Skewered after the launch you still have the opportunity to combo into a Merciless Spear afterwards to build your big KB or even continue on into Fatal Blow, something that Scum Grab can't do. With Shao you have to either get your damage or build your Merciless Spear KB and having Shoulder Charger armor break and Skewered armor break basically guarantees that you'll be unbreakable on every touch. Pairing it with Spear Charge, IMO, is actually less optimal than with Shoulder Charger

The problem I find with the Risen Emperor set up now that customs are legal is it's essentially like having a two slot move equipped. The Dark Priest buff is not so useful without landing the Annihilation KB. And if you're not running Skewered like you say the chances that you will: 1. Have the buff up. 2. Open them up. 3. They don't have Breaker up. All in order to get the KB is pretty slim.

Here's a comparison of the damage of a basic 1 bar BnB between the buffs/debuffs, though we all know Humilate is harder (not by much) to get out than Priest:
Base: 306.94%
Dark Priest buff up: 312.04%
Humiliate debuff up: 383.67%

For one slot you get two debuffs and access to a very devastating KB just like with Dark Priest/Annihilation but the difference being you don't have to take another move to get the Taunt KB like with Dark Priest. Dark Priest/Annihilation KB takes up two slots and the damage it rewards can be broken out of. Landing the Humiliate KB is an unbreakable 40% KB and CAN be combo'd into if necessary, comboing in the corner with Humilate up is predictably devastating.

You made great points on Up Hammer and Skewered , but I can't agree with your analysis on the buffs/debuffs. To be specific , Dark Priest is significantly easier to get than a taunt. Priest is perfectly safe to get after any grounded starter into shoulder ,b3 . Even in the corner you can get the buff out and be -6. Priest also buffs your throw damage by a lot .

 

[Pyrosis]

The damage that priest buff gives you, if you're using it just for the damage increase and not to pair with the Annihilation crushing blow, simply isn't worth it. Going for the buff off of a combo instead of ending in damage or ending in a Merciless Spear to build your big KB isn't worth. It's safe, but that's the only thing it has going for it. You're sacrificing too much to get just 6% more damage on throws. As I said above, the most important thing for Shao Kahn to have is guaranteed damage or to set up his spear KB, since it is so difficult to open up your opponent. The taunt is more risky and isn't safe, I freely admit, but the reward you get for sacrificing your damage or spear KB set up makes it worth it for him.

Speaking briefly, the only advantage of running Dark Priest over Taunts is that it can be deployed safely. Dark Priest loses to taunts in nearly every form unless it's also equipped with Annihilation, which lowers your options for loadouts and the KB it provides can be broken out of.


The same back 3 into Dark Priest you're talking about can also work with the taunt, naturally you're going to get blown up against characters with fast advancing specials, teleports. If the opponent has none of these options they have to be ready to dash up and have a decently forward advancing normal. It's much more risk but also much, much more reward and IMO Shao has to consider the most damaging options if you're willing to include any of the buffs/debuffs. Not cashing out damage/spear KB for a smaller buff isn't worth it to his gameplan IMO

 

[DixieFlatline78]

I agree that Spear Charge is effective in that it can lead to good damage and corner carry. My main problem with it is that the damage doesn't justify losing the utility and effectiveness of Shoulder Charger. Shoulder is faster starts in 16f active for 2 vs Spear Charge starting in 19 active for 4. A lot of the time Shoulder is an unreactable check. Catching opponents out with D4 into charge is better with Shoulder... Not that it matters much since they're both death on whiff/block but Shoulder is 10 frames fewer recovery. One of the bigger downsides for Spear Charge for me is that it's Amp comes out on block.

All in all I suppose the choice between the two could come down to if you want damage or utility

I play Shao Kahn very defensively. Not a whole lot of raw shoulder in my gameplan as it is right now, though I did face a Rain with his totally sick schmoovement and caught him with about five raw shoulders so there's definitely a place for it lol. I'm more interested in the corner carry from Spear Charge though I'm running some Shoulder builds right now to see how I like it.

Shao is fighting for attention with like five other characters rn though. I'm enjoying playing him and I think he's better than people say, but I really dont think there's much point in picking him over Spawn.

 

[Pyrosis]

I play Shao Kahn very defensively. Not a whole lot of raw shoulder in my gameplan as it is right now, though I did face a Rain with his totally sick schmoovement and caught him with about five raw shoulders so there's definitely a place for it lol. I'm more interested in the corner carry from Spear Charge though I'm running some Shoulder builds right now to see how I like it.

Shao is fighting for attention with like five other characters rn though. I'm enjoying playing him and I think he's better than people say, but I really dont think there's much point in picking him over Spawn.

Spawn plays a similar gameplan to Shao Kahn and does literally every aspect of it better than him. Not much reason to at all outside of some dumb character loyalty like I have for him...

 

[DixieFlatline78]

Spawn plays a similar gameplan to Shao Kahn and does literally every aspect of it better than him. Not much reason to at all outside of some dumb character loyalty like I have for him...

I'll still happily pull him online but I'd probably go with Raiden in tournament. I'd probably even play Baraka over him or my new Kollector.

I'm still hoping I'll have a breakthrough with him though. I feel like I'm close to making him work. I feel like I'm close to optimizing my gameplan with him. Every loss is 100% on me at this point