Shang Tsung's strings are godlike.

[eskuAdradit0]

So yeah. I was gonna release this after the WPGames MK tourney in Brazil, but given the fact that the input bug and other annoying stuff happen in MK so much, I've decided to not to waste that much money in getting annoyed. Maybe another time, folks. Also, gotta note that I'm not doing this because I hate shang or anything (I think he's a badass), but to help the MK kommunity as a whole since a good amount of players did not take care of learning Shang's MU. This game is sooo poke-friendly that the input bug is not even funny.

Note: This has been tested with another human being CROUCH blocking. There is no reason to not to crouch block against Shang since his only overheads is his 20F B+2 and the second 1 in his B1,2,1,4 String. (Reserved pain)
Some (not sure how many) of his strings jail on stand block without a jip attempt.
Soulsteal enders are safe on block and also interruptable. I'll see if I can find the *txt about it or just re-test it all over again. But don't expect wonders from Shang,

F+4,3,4, Close Groundskull - Interruptable inmediately after the 3 with a 7f D3 or faster.
F+4,3, Close Groundskull - Same as above.
F+4,Close Groundskull - Not interruptable by any char in the game but Smoke's shake (and possibly Kratos' parry). Leads to 23% meterless unbreakable damage on hit + upskull pressure.

2,2,1,Close Groundskull - Interruptable after the first 2 with a 8f D1 (sub-zero's 8f D4 also hits).
2, ANYTHING - First hit is a universal high. (not even on crouch block it hits mid) So it's easily stuffable by pokes, fast uppercuts, etc.


1,2,2, Close Ground Skull - Interruptable after the first 2 by a 8f D4 or faster.
1,2, Close Groundskull - Interruptable by a 8f D4 or faster before the ground skull.
1,2,1 - Not interruptable between 2 and the second 1. Cannot be cancelled on block to ground skulls and gives pushback. Can be armored through after the 2, though.
1, ANYTHING - First hit is a universal high except on big crouch block hitbox (AKA. Noob Saibot and few others) Interruptable by uppercut, 8F D1, D4, etc or faster on medium to small crouch hitbox characters. Stuffable by a Noob's 7D3 if pulled on reaction.

B+2, Anything- Easily fuzzy guarded. 20f. Overhead. Can be poked out of B+2 with ease.
F+3, 4, Close Ground Skull - Interruptable by a 6f D1 or 7F D3 after the 4.
F+3, 4 - Not interruptable.
F+3, Close Ground skull - Interruptable by a 7f D3 or faster.


(This was blocked standing for testing purposes)
B+1,2,1,4, Close Ground Skull - Not interruptable on the last part. Last 4 pushes back the opponent.
B+1,2,1 Close Ground Skull - Can crossup jump or jump away inmediately after the 1. Shang can block.

(This was crouch blocked)
B+1, Anything. - Universal high on crouch block for any size of crouch blocking hitboxes. Follows the general rule of getting spinned, elbow dashed, 8F D+4, Poked, 7F D3, etc before Shang gets a chance to say "TOP TIER".


Couple interesting facts:

- Aside from all the universal ways of interrupting the vast majority of shang's strings, some character with fast parries or similars may interrupt shang as always. For instance, if the opponent is crouch blocking, Kabal may armor through it, Smoke may EX shake it, Cyber Sub-Zero may parry it and Jade may EX glow and full punish.
- Jade's EX glow does not take her any damage from groundskulls whatsoever.
- This should nullify a big part of Shang's corner game.


He's top tier. Obviously a blockstrings char.

 

[xenogorgeous]

Very very interesting ....

And, maybe Jade is a bad matchup for Shang ?

 

[G4S KT]

f4groundskullf4groundskullf4groundskullf4groundskullf4groundskullf4groundskullf4groundskullf4groundskullf4groundskullf4groundskullf4groundskullf4groundskullf4groundskullf4groundskullf4groundskullf4groundskullf4groundskullf4groundskullf4groundskullf4groundskullf4groundskullf4groundskullf4groundskullf4groundskullf4groundskull

 

[eskuAdradit0]

f4groundskullf4groundskullf4groundskullf4groundskullf4groundskullf4groundskullf4groundskullf4groundskullf4groundskullf4groundskullf4groundskullf4groundskullf4groundskullf4groundskullf4groundskullf4groundskullf4groundskullf4groundskullf4groundskullf4groundskullf4groundskullf4groundskullf4groundskullf4groundskullf4groundskull

Pretty much. F4, Ground skull and either another F4 Ground Skull, D1,D3 or block. That's like all he's got against a good opponent. Against Smoke it only gets worse. This game will end up being Poking Kombat.

I love your Smoke btw.

 

[G4S KT]

Pretty much. F4, Ground skull and either another F4 Ground Skull, D1,D3 or block. That's like all he's got against a good opponent. Against Smoke it only gets worse. This game will end up being Poking Kombat.

I love your Smoke btw.

Thanks yo

that's wild you can shake the skull after f4 on block, good to know.

EDIT: Question, what is close ground skull on block? I don't see any numbers for that

 

[eskuAdradit0]

Thanks yo

that's wild you can shake the skull after f4 on block, good to know.

EDIT: Question, what is close ground skull on block? I don't see any numbers for that

Blocked Ground Skull is +2 according to Somberness.(XXZ)
Blocked Upskull is +30.

I can just F4 into D3 if you decide to Shake my F4, Ground skull, though

 

[1man3letters]

great post!!!

very helpfull :7up:

 

[G4S KT]

Blocked Ground Skull is +2 according to Somberness.(XXZ)
Blocked Upskull is +30.

I can just F4 into D3 if you decide to Shake my F4, Ground skull, though

lol, f4 > ground skull loop is 2 frames away from being a block infinite and both hits can be confirmed into a full combo.

EDIT: WHERE'S MY ARMOR AT

 

[Roko1985]

So yeah. I was gonna release this after the WPGames MK tourney in Brazil, but given the fact that the input bug and other annoying stuff happen in MK so much, I've decided to not to waste that much money in getting annoyed. Maybe another time, folks. Also, gotta note that I'm not doing this because I hate shang or anything (I think he's a badass), but to help the MK kommunity as a whole since a good amount of players did not take care of learning Shang's MU. This game is sooo poke-friendly that the input bug is not even funny.

Note: This has been tested with another human being CROUCH blocking. There is no reason to not to crouch block against Shang since his only overheads is his 20F B+2 and the second 1 in his B1,2,1,4 String. (Reserved pain)
Some (not sure how many) of his strings jail on stand block without a jip attempt.
Soulsteal enders are safe on block and also interruptable. I'll see if I can find the *txt about it or just re-test it all over again. But don't expect wonders from Shang,

F+4,3,4, Close Groundskull - Interruptable inmediately after the 3 with a 7f D3 or faster.
F+4,3, Close Groundskull - Same as above.
F+4,Close Groundskull - Not interruptable by any char in the game but Smoke's shake (and possibly Kratos' parry). Leads to 23% meterless unbreakable damage on hit + upskull pressure.

2,2,1,Close Groundskull - Interruptable after the first 2 with a 8f D1 (sub-zero's 8f D4 also hits).
2, ANYTHING - First hit is a universal high. (not even on crouch block it hits mid) So it's easily stuffable by pokes, fast uppercuts, etc.


1,2,2, Close Ground Skull - Interruptable after the first 2 by a 8f D4 or faster.
1,2, Close Groundskull - Interruptable by a 8f D4 or faster before the ground skull.
1,2,1 - Not interruptable between 2 and the second 1. Cannot be cancelled on block to ground skulls and gives pushback. Can be armored through, though.
1, ANYTHING - First hit is a universal high except on big crouch block hitbox (AKA. Noob Saibot and few others) Uppercut, 8F D1, D4 or faster on normal to small crouch hitbox characters. Stuffable by a Noob's 7D3 if pulled on reaction.

B+2, Anything- Easily fuzzy guarded. 20f. Overhead. Can be poked out of B+2 with ease.
F+3, 4, Close Ground Skull - Interruptable by a 6f D1 or 7F D3 after the 4.
F+3, 4 - Not interruptable.
F+3, Close Ground skull - Interruptable by a 7f D3 or faster.


(This was blocked standing for testing purposes)
B+1,2,1,4, Close Ground Skull - Not interruptable on the last part. Last 4 pushes back the opponent.
B+1,2,1 Close Ground Skull - Can crossup jump or jump away inmediately after the 1. Shang can block.

(This was crouch blocked)
B+1, Anything. - Universal high on crouch block for any size of crouch blocking hitboxes. Follows the general rule of getting spinned, elbow dashed, 8F D+4, Poked, 7F D3, etc before Shang gets a chance to say "TOP TIER".


Couple interesting facts:

- Aside from all the universal ways of interrupting the vast majority of shang's strings, some character with fast parries or similars may interrupt shang as always. For instance, if the opponent is crouch blocking, Kabal may armor through it, Smoke may EX shake it, Cyber Sub-Zero may parry it and Jade may EX glow and full punish.
- Jade's EX glow does not take her any damage from groundskulls whatsoever.
- This should nullify a big part of Shang's corner game.


He's top tier. Obviously a blockstrings char.

Very impresive! You made Shang look like he is not as good as i thought. But is good to know what can go wrong. Now what will be very nice is if you or someone test some more things and post what is good for Shang(f4 gr.sk. and......) Strategy, set ups, traps, strings on hit(examples best way to follow on hit). That will be very very helpfull! Good job man.!

 

[eskuAdradit0]

lol, f4 > ground skull loop is 2 frames away from being a block infinite and both hits can be confirmed into a full combo.

EDIT: WHERE'S MY ARMOR AT

lol.
NRS has a crush on a lot of character's F+4(Baraka, Kabal, Smoke, Shang...). Think about it. I sense trolling.

Very impresive! You made Shang look like he is not as good as i thought. But is good to know what can go wrong. Now what will be very nice is if you or someone test some more things and post what is good for Shang(f4 gr.sk. and......) Strategy, set ups, traps, strings on hit(examples best way to follow on hit). That will be very very helpfull! Good job man.!

Thanks man, I appreciate it a lot.

Me and many others have already answer'd those questions in this subforum. Check Belial's guide (he's best shang pre 1.05 imo. And thats because he quit the game before 1.05) that's stickied. Also check the Ask Shang Tsung thread. Any further questions, make them in the correct thread or pm the users. I know Belial still lurks

This thread was made with the mere purpose to show that Shang can only be a blockstring character if the opponent does not know the matchup(as it looks almost nobody knows it). And that's the general rule: if you don't know the matchup against someone who has mained a char for a respectable amount of time, chances are you're gonna get your ass landed. I love this game, but unluckily I don't like playing it as much anymore. I still enjoy watching streams, so I'd like to watch the game evolve a bit faster. Hopefully people will do similar threads on their mains.

People were saying he's like top tier. I lol'd. But meh... this forum never gets attention. Not even after Detroit's win or after "Riu's new tech".

Very very interesting ....

And, maybe Jade is a bad matchup for Shang ?

Well, in theory, she is. A good Jade will ALWAYS be glowing and that nullifies the zoning and counterzoning game of Shang BUT the soul steal. She's got good pokes, footsies and decent jabs, so she's able to stuff shang's "godlike blockstrings" with relative ease. Seeing as Jade has her own tier, I'm not sure if morphing into her would be a good idea.

Thing is, though, I've tried to main Jade, but although she may look good on a paper, she's not an easy char to get along with. You have to have cold blood or something, because although she's not a BAAAAD character, she's not on a advantage on many characters. She may kick Shang's ass with ease, though. We'll see, I still gotta fight a good Jade. Pretty sure [MENTION=5927]Thead[/MENTION] should be a good Jade, but I live in Peru, so chances are we're not gonna fight any time soon.

Plus, I think Jade has a lot of interruptable strings as well that Shang may interrupt with EX SS, his awesome pokes and footsies, or even F+4. You gotta look at both sides of the equation, which only feeds my thought that this game will end up being Poking Kombat.

 

[Roko1985]

What is ryu's new tech?

 

[eskuAdradit0]

What is ryu's new tech?

Don't know. The thread lasted for 2 days and got deleted with no sign or explanation before he got to make a vid or write about it.

 

[Roko1985]

Don't know. The thread lasted for 2 days and got deleted with no sign or explanation before he got to make a vid or write about it.

So it look like he was bluffing..............

 

[1man3letters]

lol.
NRS has a crush on a lot of character's F+4(Baraka, Kabal, Smoke, Shang...). Think about it. I sense trolling.

good point! baraka cant special cancel from his f4,4 though,with good reason (oh chop chop infin,i miss u :violin

 

[IDYLEHANDZ]

So much hate for shang
Seriously i joke, but alot of anti-shang stuff coming up since ballin's win at that tourny. I almost wish he had a different main

I guess ill still play him, and enjoy every moment of getting bodied. My most consistent sparring partner is a smoke player.. and not a bad one either. I really really struggle to get a round won!

 

[eskuAdradit0]

So much hate for shang
Seriously i joke, but alot of anti-shang stuff coming up since ballin's win at that tourny. I almost wish he had a different main

I guess ill still play him, and enjoy every moment of getting bodied. My most consistent sparring partner is a smoke player.. and not a bad one either. I really really struggle to get a round won!

Nah, my rant is on a complete other side, it's on MK mechanics and development (throws, 3D models incosistency, constant patches, safe launchers on block, etc).
I, for one, was very happy that DB won that major. I thought that it'd be time for the Shang forums to become active again. Guess I was mistaken.
It just did piss me off that people were saying that Shang was like super duper top tier, and always those "hey guyz i got dat new techz" on streams and stuff. Really, after seeing this thread, do any of you think he's as good as people portray him to be?

And just for the record, I think that the only other "anti-shang" thread was a vid made by Check. I know Check respects DB as much as I do, and he was only showcasing combos, as usual. I love Shang just as much or more than you (hence why he's my main and I've been here since I joined TYM), but he doesn't get much attention or any other kind of love at all. And when he does, it's people talking without even maining him.

 

[leek]

Poking Kombat.

pretty much this :/

 

[IDYLEHANDZ]

I understand. I've just always like Shang as a char by concept. I didnt pick him by playstyle or w/e. I just knew I wanted to play shang before this game came out.
Honestly I could prolly pick up another char, and be practiced up to par in very little time as compared to shang... but yeah, the issues in this game can be staggering. Ive had many many matches where some weird and quite inconsistent oddity happens, and my opponent and I just stop and shake our heads.

Either way, I still wanna take shang to some kind of tourny, even if its just local, as my main. I dont even really care if I just get bodied.

 

[NariTuba]

Im gonna go ahead and play devils advocate here. Lets take this portion of the OP as an example:

F+4,3,4, Close Groundskull - Interruptable inmediately after the 3 with a 7f D3 or faster.
F+4,3, Close Groundskull - Same as above.
F+4,Close Groundskull - Not interruptable by any char in the game but Smoke's shake (and possibly Kratos' parry). Leads to 23% meterless unbreakable damage on hit + upskull pressure.

So f4,3 is interruptible by a 7 frame poke. This means you have a just frame window (1 frame window) to execute your 7i poke or a 2 frame window for a 6 frame poke in order to interrupt. When youre talking just frames you have to know people are going to mess it up, even at the highest possible level, when in high pressure situations. We see top players dropping their combos all the time, so we can be sure they will mess up a just frame.

So what is the risk reward then? If I interrupt I hit them with a poke; if I mess up the just frame interruption i get blown up pretty bad with an unbreakable combo. Is that really worth it?

Then there's the question of mindgames against a real opponent while under pressure. If I rep f4~cGS enough (caught you a few times with it until you start blocking the GS giving me the advantage) I guarrantee you will have an even harder time hitting that just frame interruption on reaction to lets say f4,3~cGS.

Lets say I throw f4,3~cGS out there and you interrupt it, thats ok, youre not gonna beat me because you land a d1 on me so maybe ill go the logical route and start f4~cGS or maybe now I know youll try to interrupt me everytime i do f4,3 so ill do f4,3~ss just so you know that if you try to interrupt me I will take damage from you. This opens up f4,3 and f4,3,4.

I havent tested wether ss can be interrupted after f4,3 btw, just used it for example puporses going by the fact that the frame data lists its execution at 5 less frames than ground skull. I did read that you posted somewhere that ss can be interrupted before the 2nd hit (is this correct?). In order to interrupt the SS the timing would be different than to interrupt the GS, so you would have to see the 3 (your queue to interrupt) come out but realize that there is a SS coming instead of GS; adapt to that and then proceed with another just frame interruption with different timing. Not happening in a heated match imho. Then theres ExSS if i read you are determined to interrupt... what im getting at is that the just frame interruption would become a mind game in itself, with the risk reward in shangs favor by a mile.

I remember a while back riu48 posted a thread similar to this explaining how all of Sonyas strings hitting mostly high and being interrupted easily, yet Sonya continues to climb in the percieved tier lists and the ammount of top players using the character increases.

Anyway, all of the above with all due respect, just looking for a healthy debate. I read you complained in another thread about shang forum being dead so here you go

 

[eskuAdradit0]

Im gonna go ahead and play devils advocate here. Lets take this portion of the OP as an example:



So f4,3 is interruptibl

 

[eskuAdradit0]

lol johnny cage's EX nut punch can interrupt f4, gs. Forgot it had invincibility frames, iunno why you don't see it used that much.

Oh well that was my 1-match of MK of the month. back2mw3

 

[greeneless]

Any string into ground skull gives you enough advantage for a d+1 which can be two-in-one'd into another ground skull that gives you enough advantage for another d+1. Isn't this technically a block infinite? lol. Can you interrupt d+1 groundskull? I'm sure someone has tried this, but I figured I'd ask.

 

[fr stack]

anyone can poke out after d1 of the d1 gs string.. or jump out for that matter

 

[mekane]

anyone can poke out after d1 of the d1 gs string.. or jump out for that matter

yeah, d1 cancel advantage is +1, gs is 29 frames. so they have 28 frames to beat your your GS. doesn't seem like that when your playing but i guess thats what the frame data says.

 

[Prinz]

Posted this somewhere else, but I think here is the right place.
I decided to test f434GS. Also, I observed that sometimes doing f43GS catches the opponent, while f434GS whiffs. Here are my results (best viewed with the Dark-Red skinof TYM). ALERT! Major exposing of Shang Tsung ahead.

In red after f43 are the frame gaps. Any feedback is welcomed.
Btw, if you got a hit on one of those likely to get hit by f43, than the next f43GS is guaranteed to hit, f434GS may not be.