Scrub Tier List

[Blakfellow]

I think enough time has passed where we can again discuss which characters take the least amount of brain cells to use and implement their very effective brain dead strategies. Although this tier list is somewhat correlated to a power level tier list, it is not one in the same. Think about those character that make your blood boil when you play against them. These are the characters that you have little to no respect for the players that use them. This list also just takes into consideration characters that are just plain annoying. If the character doesn't have a kameo attached, assume ferra. The tiermaker did not have enough ferra icons.

Nitara- She is literally an absolutely perfect example of why I have so little faith in NRS's ability to properly balance a game. 1050 health with ferra and it literally untouchable by more than half of the cast. easy mode netural into 50/50s launching for 45%+ each touch. safe yolo launching special moves. Literally makes the game absolutely seem like a silly party game.

Homelander- 3 way safe mix into 35%+ combos... Safe wake up.. top zoning.. launching normal grab.. again.. what is nrs thinking...

Tanya- Safe launching armor into 50/50, 1150 health, second best mid string in the game.

Scorpion- Batgirl like reset into 50/50

It seems to me that having a yolo move is highly correlated to being high on this tier list: Mileena ball roll, nitara dive kick, tanya spinning kicks, etc.


In summary this is easily the least enjoyable version of the whole game. It has shown that NRS truly has no creativity. Instead of increasing powerlevels in a thoughtful way by creating layered interesting mechanics such as Geras hourglass, shangtsung morph, smoke cancels/invisibility, quan chi portals, etc. they opt to introduce the most brain dead derp kameo in history that adds 150 health and gives safe 50/50 launchers. This plus the asinine buffs they gave nitara makes it to where it is not fun to play against half the cast. Imo the measure of a good fighting game is it having depth, it being fun to play with a character, and finally, just as important is it being fun to play AGAINST other characters. The last point is where I think NRS is failing miserably.

 

[kabelfritz]

I think enough time has passed where we can again discuss which characters take the least amount of brain cells to use and implement their very effective brain dead strategies. Although this tier list is somewhat correlated to a power level tier list, it is not one in the same. Think about those character that make your blood boil when you play against them. These are the characters that you have little to no respect for the players that use them. This list also just takes into consideration characters that are just plain annoying. If the character doesn't have a kameo attached, assume ferra. The tiermaker did not have enough ferra icons. View attachment 21872

Nitara- She is literally an absolutely perfect example of why I have so little faith in NRS's ability to properly balance a game. 1050 health with ferra and it literally untouchable by more than half of the cast. easy mode netural into 50/50s launching for 45%+ each touch. safe yolo launching special moves. Literally makes the game absolutely seem like a silly party game.

Homelander- 3 way safe mix into 35%+ combos... Safe wake up.. top zoning.. launching normal grab.. again.. what is nrs thinking...

Tanya- Safe launching armor into 50/50, 1150 health, second best mid string in the game.

Scorpion- Batgirl like reset into 50/50

It seems to me that having a yolo move is highly correlated to being high on this tier list: Mileena ball roll, nitara dive kick, tanya spinning kicks, etc.


In summary this is easily the least enjoyable version of the whole game. It has shown that NRS truly has no creativity. Instead of increasing powerlevels in a thoughtful way by creating layered interesting mechanics such as Geras hourglass, shangtsung morph, smoke cancels/invisibility, quan chi portals, etc. they opt to introduce the most brain dead derp kameo in history that adds 150 health and gives safe 50/50 launchers. This plus the asinine buffs they gave nitara makes it to where it is not fun to play against half the cast. Imo the measure of a good fighting game is it having depth, it being fun to play with a character, and finally, just as important is it being fun to play AGAINST other characters. The last point is where I think NRS is failing miserably.

i agree that its drifting into a bit of a herp derp direction after a promising start. its time for nerfs rather than buffs again. i think all the added high air mobility has messed up the balance quite a bit for the base roster. i also have a big question mark above my head looking at a character that made top 8 at evo and now got an additional safe launcher from half screen and better full-screen options. and a kameo that can make your unsafe options into a +2 on block launcher and has a health bonus that takes the pain out of pain 'n gain.

 

[Jynks]

Nitara is awesome she spent the entire game at the bottom of the teir list.. Let her have some time at the top.

 

[Deleted member 5032]

Tanya- Safe launching armor into 50/50, 1150 health, second best mid string in the game.

Just curious, what do you think is the best mid string in the game?

 

[Baconlord]

How do you you still got beef with Kenshi/cyrax lmao

 

[SaltShaker]

What safe WU does HomeLander have?

 

[kabelfritz]

Just curious, what do you think is the best mid string in the game?

i guess he means the timekeepers own f43

 

[NHDR]

I get Kenshi is really strong, but scrubby? You have to lab his sento setups to get the most out of him, its impossible to pick him up and just do damage by pressing buttons randomly.

 

[Vulgar]

Isn't hype "mix" and overpowered bullshit what everyone wanted?

 

[Eji1700]

Isn't hype "mix" and overpowered bullshit what everyone wanted?

This is such a lame argument because it's so reductive.

Yes, I at least, want crazy bullshit. That said, there is a large difference between something like MvC2/3 endless rainbow of absurdity and watching everyone use Lao hat (as an example from the past, I know that's not a problem anymore).

Watching every single character end strings in lao hat is boring af, watching them all have unique flavors of nonsense is neat. I think kenshi is mostly fine in that regard, and somewhat get where people are coming from with characters like tanya who's kit seems to revolve around repeated safe pressure that is both visually and actually repetitive (although still better than it was at least).

It's not a secret that MK1 has a major problem with "kameo to cover my 'dp'" being the default best thing, and unlike it's competitors in the genre of nuance bullshit, it has struggled to diversify from that.

Edit:
Another good example seems to be Lao in this game vs Lao in just about any other game. So much of his identity/pressure/setup from previous games feels like it's been replaced with armored launcher + kameo. It works, and yep it's absolutely bullshit, but it's certainly not interesting (it's been a bit since i've really looked at lao so maybe they fixed this, but again as another datapoint).

 

[Jynks]

Isn't hype "mix" and overpowered bullshit what everyone wanted?

it is exactly what I wanted.

Balance is for pussies. Make everyone broken and let the players sort it out... that is how SF3turbo did it, that's how MvC did it... and it has worked out pretty well so far.

 

[Juggs]

I don’t quite understand. So teams that are really effective but don’t require much thought or “brain cells” are considered “scrubby”? That makes no sense to me. An actual scrub would hate these teams and would cry and complain about them. So in a sense, YOU are the scrub by making this tier list. Or rather, making this scrub tier list is, in fact, scrubby.

js ¯\(ツ)/¯

 

[LiMain]

That Omni Bitch should be higher in the list

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

If any one of you who complain about Nitara labbed for 5 minutes, you'd find she's nowhere near Sindel, Homelander, Tanya and Scorpion levels of safe dumb shit for huge damage.

 

[wsj515]

If any one of you who complain about Nitara labbed for 5 minutes, you'd find she's nowhere near Sindel, Homelander, Tanya and Scorpion levels of safe dumb shit for huge damage.

This is a pretty dumb hill to die on. She may be more ungabunga and the risk reward for ferra mix isn't as good as someone like scorption, but you're still guessing like 100 times a round and playing a really idiotic form of neutral, and you're playing a character that can regen health with a starting value of over 1k. Depending on the opponent, they have to guess right more than 3 times, whereas Nitara only needs to guess right twice.

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

This is a pretty dumb hill to die on. She may be more ungabunga and the risk reward for ferra mix isn't as good as someone like scorption, but you're still guessing like 100 times a round and playing a really idiotic form of neutral, and you're playing a character that can regen health with a starting value of over 1k. Depending on the opponent, they have to guess right more than 3 times, whereas Nitara only needs to guess right twice.

There is not a single string you can safely cancel into ferra and not get full combo punished, which leaves you having to do gimmicky stuff like divekick into ferra, or calling her out in neutral - which basically any character can do to the same effect. People panick at her mobility and correlate that with the ferra mixes being legit, which they are not. The damage is indeed very high if you do hit, though, I'll concede that.

 

[Juggs]

I think a more accurate name would be the “Setplay Tier List”. Because that’s what all of the complaints really come down to. That with these teams you don’t need to use your brain and/or think. And the reason is because they have such good setplay you don’t have to think. And as I said before, I don’t think a team having stupidly good setplay makes them “scrubby”. But I suppose that begs the question of; “how do you define ‘scrubby’/‘scrub’”?

 

[Vulgar]

There is not a single string you can safely cancel into ferra and not get full combo punished, which leaves you having to do gimmicky stuff like divekick into ferra, or calling her out in neutral - which basically any character can do to the same effect. People panick at her mobility and correlate that with the ferra mixes being legit, which they are not. The damage is indeed very high if you do hit, though, I'll concede that.

Mental stack is a thing. You're acting like Nitara will never get Ferra off.

Downplay.

 

[Juggs]

Mental stack is a thing. You're acting like Nitara will never get Ferra off.

Downplay.

Yeah I honestly think people think about things like this too linearly, or too black & white. For instance, people will completely write off “gimmicks” and will remove things from their gameplay arsenal that aren’t “real”. But then you look at top players like SonicFox and they use gimmicky stuff all the time. And it’s actually smart because it’s a common trend to dismiss things that aren’t real, aka you don’t lab against it and aren’t prepared for it. Then there’s also the mental stack aspect as you mentioned. Which even if you HAVE labbed against a certain gimmick and know it’s punishable or whatever, if you’re having to worry about many other things, by the time you register that they went for the gimmicky thing, you may not be able to react in time.

So, just because some things aren’t safe, are gimmicky, can be punished, aren’t “real”, etc etc, that doesn’t mean they’re necessarily useless or “bad”. A big reason some players struggle against other players that may not be all that great, or that they’re much better than, is because the worse players don’t care if something is “real” or is a gimmick or not. They also will do shit that doesn’t make any sense. So essentially, they do things you’re not expecting or prepared for. Another reason people struggle against these types of players is because they don’t have strong fundamentals. Having strong fundamentals is extremely important and I feel like it’s something that is often overlooked these days. ¯\(ツ)/¯

 

[Naiathelegend]

i guess he means the timekeepers own f43

Gotta be talking about Johnny Cage’s mid

 

[SaltShaker]

Gotta be talking about Johnny Cage’s mid

Yea definitely the first thing that came to mind for me too.

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

Mental stack is a thing. You're acting like Nitara will never get Ferra off.

Downplay.

Of course, at no point I said she won't get in. She will, and will do big damage - that doesn't mean she gets in as easily as people are here saying she does.

Yeah I honestly think people think about things like this too linearly, or too black & white. For instance, people will completely write off “gimmicks” and will remove things from their gameplay arsenal that aren’t “real”. But then you look at top players like SonicFox and they use gimmicky stuff all the time. And it’s actually smart because it’s a common trend to dismiss things that aren’t real, aka you don’t lab against it and aren’t prepared for it. Then there’s also the mental stack aspect as you mentioned. Which even if you HAVE labbed against a certain gimmick and know it’s punishable or whatever, if you’re having to worry about many other things, by the time you register that they went for the gimmicky thing, you may not be able to react in time.

So, just because some things aren’t safe, are gimmicky, can be punished, aren’t “real”, etc etc, that doesn’t mean they’re necessarily useless or “bad”. A big reason some players struggle against other players that may not be all that great, or that they’re much better than, is because the worse players don’t care if something is “real” or is a gimmick or not. They also will do shit that doesn’t make any sense. So essentially, they do things you’re not expecting or prepared for. Another reason people struggle against these types of players is because they don’t have strong fundamentals. Having strong fundamentals is extremely important and I feel like it’s something that is often overlooked these days. ¯\(ツ)/¯

Again, this was not my argument at all. Mileena ball roll thrown out in randomness WILL hit and win lots of games - it is still gimmicky and will get punished hard for most competent people paying attention.

People are getting hit by the equivalent of random Mileena Ball roll - in the form of Nitara string into Ferra Mix - because they refuse to lab it, and rage. It is fake. Doesn't mean it won't hit ever, or is useless - it means it won't catch people paying attention, exactly like the random ball roll. It is that simple.

 

[ImpostorOak]

Of course, at no point I said she won't get in. She will, and will do big damage - that doesn't mean she gets in as easily as people are here saying she does.



Again, this was not my argument at all. Mileena ball roll thrown out in randomness WILL hit and win lots of games - it is still gimmicky and will get punished hard for most competent people paying attention.

People are getting hit by the equivalent of random Mileena Ball roll - in the form of Nitara string into Ferra Mix - because they refuse to lab it, and rage. It is fake. Doesn't mean it won't hit ever, or is useless - it means it won't catch people paying attention, exactly like the random ball roll. It is that simple.

Nah there's counter play to the counter play. Once you see people interrupting Ferra, you can just Ferra backdash and Punish. It's strong as fuck, and after labbing it I'm scared to play someone really good playing her.

And again, her movement and meterless divekick are crazy, so is her health pool now, considering she can still heal.

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

Nah there's counter play to the counter play. Once you see people interrupting Ferra, you can just Ferra backdash and Punish. It's strong as fuck, and after labbing it I'm scared to play someone really good playing her.

And again, her movement and meterless divekick are crazy, so is her health pool now, considering she can still heal.

Backdash doesnt work if you are doing f1 into ferra or b4 into ferra (otherwise I'd be on a 120 game streak lolol). It works to some degree if you do 124, but it is still interruptable.

Of course, the counterplay can involve doing string into db2 instead of ferra mix, but that is unsafe as well - can be made safe if you spend a bar, now becoming a counter-counter-counterplay. Most people who are relying on ferra only are not going to go that far though

 

[YagamiFire]

Another reason people struggle against these types of players is because they don’t have strong fundamentals. Having strong fundamentals is extremely important and I feel like it’s something that is often overlooked these days.

Great post in general and this part in particular is EXTREMELY true. Been helping a couple people get into fighters and one of the younger ones has been struggling with some of the stuff in SF6. After telling him several times to focus on fundamentals I encouraged him to give Super Turbo a try and have been trying to show him more stuff in that and get him used to it because it reduces the number of options he's got at his fingertips and helps him focus on fundamentals and decision making. Trying to help him walk before he runs. He's got a really good attitude in general towards fighters in general despite being super new to them so that helps.