Match-up Discussion Scorpion vs Smoke?

[OZZYGUITAR]

Thats all true, but if Smoke is 7-3 then Cyrax is 8-2. Cyrax zoning is way worse than Smoke's, his damage is just as bad if not worse, his footsies are just as good and is more dangerous with command grab up close.

And if Cyrax is 8-2 then what is Sonya, Cage, and Kit?

id leave cage and kit at 7-3. cyrax and sonya both have the potential to be 8-2, these matchups are just so ridiculous, cyrax is by far the worst matchup i've played with scorpion, seriously, he needs one bar and you are so boned, especially with his command grab mixups, and his ridiculous ability to keep you out while also threatening a reset. Sonya just pressures you to shit. Cage is tough to deal with, but sonya has options fullscreen vs scorpion, plus her d4 is ridiculous to deal with in footsies, cage is easy to wiff punish at least, if he wiffs a f3 or b3 then its pretty easy to spear him for a vortex or combo, you cant get sonya with that on d4, the only option is to read it, back up and either b2 or hellfire, if she reads either then its potentially full combo. I also use d4 , possibly into leg sweep, in footsies with sonya, but you have no adv on d4 and she blocks leg sweep then its free pressure

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

it is 6 4 guys, this comes from fighting wafflez's smoke, detroit's smoke at evo, and vegas players know how to play smoke as well so i've played him alot. The big reasons why smoke wins, his smoke bomb eliminates your use of spear, almost your use of hellfire, and he punishes you for huge damage if you take a risk. Also the main thing, he has better pokes obviously.

 

[Temjiin]

I base this on being free.

Don't be so hard on yourself buddy.

 

[OutworldKeith]

it is 6 4 guys, this comes from fighting wafflez's smoke, detroit's smoke at evo, and vegas players know how to play smoke as well so i've played him alot. The big reasons why smoke wins, his smoke bomb eliminates your use of spear, almost your use of hellfire, and he punishes you for huge damage if you take a risk. Also the main thing, he has better pokes obviously.

I still agree that it's 6-4. You have to outplay the player and not so much the character.

His hardest 6-4 is Kitana IMO.

 

[Faded Dreams V]

Don't be so hard on yourself buddy.

I'm free cause I think my character beats another character?










....You're right. ;__;

 

[OutworldKeith]

id leave cage and kit at 7-3. cyrax and sonya both have the potential to be 8-2, these matchups are just so ridiculous, cyrax is by far the worst matchup i've played with scorpion, seriously, he needs one bar and you are so boned, especially with his command grab mixups, and his ridiculous ability to keep you out while also threatening a reset. Sonya just pressures you to shit. Cage is tough to deal with, but sonya has options fullscreen vs scorpion, plus her d4 is ridiculous to deal with in footsies, cage is easy to wiff punish at least, if he wiffs a f3 or b3 then its pretty easy to spear him for a vortex or combo, you cant get sonya with that on d4, the only option is to read it, back up and either b2 or hellfire, if she reads either then its potentially full combo. I also use d4 , possibly into leg sweep, in footsies with sonya, but you have no adv on d4 and she blocks leg sweep then its free pressure

I think Kitana is 4-6.

Cage is definitely 3-7. I also think Sonya is 3-7.

Cyrax is his worst MU IMO. This is a 2-8 MU

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

I still agree that it's 6-4. You have to outplay the player and not so much the character.

His hardest 6-4 is Kitana IMO.

i think his hardest 6 4 is possibly jax, yeah you can do hellfires and zone, but when he gets in it sucks alot. Not only does scorpion have a big hitbox, but all his pokes suck ass, so if you try to poke out then you have no advantage at all. You got to jump sometimes or do armor leg grab just to get him away. Then i'd say liu after that, liu has super safe strings while scorpion's pokes can't contend. Also liu's footsies out class scorpion's by a long shot and make it hard to keep him away. Kitana is hard, but i feel that if you aren't risky, she won't be too bad for you. I play her how i play smoke, risk to a very minimum and lots of d4s and hellfires to keep her away.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

I think Kitana is 4-6.

Cage is definitely 3-7. I also think Sonya is 3-7.

Cyrax is his worst MU IMO. This is a 2-8 MU

i think it's a tossup between his worst matches being sonya or cyrax, sonya just bullies him to the corner, out pokes him, has armor, divekick blows up whiffed spears or hellfire, and scorpion has no good pokes to escape her pressure. Cyrax has stupid mixups, punishes your mistakes for like 80 percent plus, great pokes, can AA grab your teles, and abuse your huge hitbox(Sonya too).

 

[OZZYGUITAR]

i think his hardest 6 4 is possibly jax, yeah you can do hellfires and zone, but when he gets in it sucks alot. Not only does scorpion have a big hitbox, but all his pokes suck ass, so if you try to poke out then you have no advantage at all. You got to jump sometimes or do armor leg grab just to get him away. Then i'd say liu after that, liu has super safe strings while scorpion's pokes can't contend. Also liu's footsies out class scorpion's by a long shot and make it hard to keep him away. Kitana is hard, but i feel that if you aren't risky, she won't be too bad for you. I play her how i play smoke, risk to a very minimum and lots of d4s and hellfires to keep her away.

I actually talked with 16 bit at NEC about the scorpion- kitana matchup, and he thinks that its 7-3, i have to agree, she viciously controls the space on the whole screen and if she out footsies him then, here comes her undeniably huge damage output, not to mention when she has the health adv it can be very hard for scorp to come back at her Slips he mentioned that you felt the same way about the matchup

 

[OZZYGUITAR]

i think it's a tossup between his worst matches being sonya or cyrax, sonya just bullies him to the corner, out pokes him, has armor, divekick blows up whiffed spears or hellfire, and scorpion has no good pokes to escape her pressure. Cyrax has stupid mixups, punishes your mistakes for like 80 percent plus, great pokes, can AA grab your teles, and abuse your huge hitbox(Sonya too).

he could aa grab them or he could d1 his ex and regular tele on reaction for a full aa combo, possibly into a bomb setup

 

[quandaghost]

I agree that this match-up is not in scorpions favor it had to 6-4. That character has alot of was to punish you heavily for your mistakes, and smoke bomb is a constant threat. Hellfire trades are meaningless, and you have to have good meter management. Playing against Xmy godX has taught me that if you wanna win this match-up patience, and knowing what smoke wants and how to get around it, you can hellfire the smoke aways or towards. If he jumps to whiff a teleport you can punish with D1 when he gets to the other side. If he D4 teleports he will whiff onto the other side you can get a full punish I think, but you D1 to halt him. To me this match-up comes down to knowing how to pressure, throws to break his guard.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

I actually talked with 16 bit at NEC about the scorpion- kitana matchup, and he thinks that its 7-3, i have to agree, she viciously controls the space on the whole screen and if she out footsies him then, here comes her undeniably huge damage output, not to mention when she has the health adv it can be very hard for scorp to come back at her Slips he mentioned that you felt the same way about the matchup

yep i feel that way about kitana for sure, if kitana had solid pressure like sonya, rax, kabal, or cage then she'd 7 3 him, but her pressure is mediocre at best.

 

[OZZYGUITAR]

yep i feel that way about kitana for sure, if kitana had solid pressure like sonya, rax, kabal, or cage then she'd 7 3 him, but her pressure is mediocre at best.

I'm inclined to feel the same way, but i also want to trust 16 bits opinion, idt anybody has played this mu more than him

 

[16 Bit]

Kitana vs. Scorp could be 6-4.

 

[Big Pampering]

Thats all true, but if Smoke is 7-3 then Cyrax is 8-2. Cyrax zoning is way worse than Smoke's, his damage is just as bad if not worse, his footsies are just as good and is more dangerous with command grab up close.

And if Cyrax is 8-2 then what is Sonya, Cage, and Kit?

cyrax might be that bad. cyrax has better options because he can drain your meter with ex net =guarantueed full reset. cyrax's combos can also land in stupid bomb or safe jump setups which smoke cannot. smoke bomb doesnt do chip either so you can just block it. bombs are unblockable.

 

[OutworldKeith]

i think it's a tossup between his worst matches being sonya or cyrax, sonya just bullies him to the corner, out pokes him, has armor, divekick blows up whiffed spears or hellfire, and scorpion has no good pokes to escape her pressure. Cyrax has stupid mixups, punishes your mistakes for like 80 percent plus, great pokes, can AA grab your teles, and abuse your huge hitbox(Sonya too).

I gota give it to Cyrax. He's just so ridiculous and cheap -__- lol. He punishes with like 80% BnBs lol

 

[Slips]

My last trip to GGA made me think Kit is 3-7 against 16 Bit, Cage being 4-6 against Dizzy and Smoke being 4-6 against Wafflez. They all could go one way or the other and it might change the next time I go.

Main thing to take away from all this is that they are all losing match-ups whether its 4-6 or 3-7. And Cyrax is probably 2-8 lol.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

My last trip to GGA made me think Kit is 3-7 against 16 Bit, Cage being 4-6 against Dizzy and Smoke being 4-6 against Wafflez. They all could go one way or the other and it might change the next time I go.

Main thing to take away from all this is that they are all losing match-ups whether its 4-6 or 3-7. And Cyrax is probably 2-8 lol.

yep cyrax most likely is the worse, everytime i play my bro, it is just a sad and terrible experience. Even tho i can make the match competitive...., one mistake and i'm toast lol vortex can stay free against resets, 8 2 mu lol.