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Video/Tutorial - Pyromancer Safe Meterless "50/50" 39-45% (Pyromancer)

K

Khan

Noob
Tanya's F3 overhead can be run canceled, which allows a mixup of F3hold into overhead full combo, or F3runcancel into low full combo, this is really only effective in Pyromancer because of Dark Shroud giving you 52 frames on hit to setup the "50/50" and is safe on block (-4). Also both the F3 overhead is safe (-4) and the Low combo (B312) is safe (+2), although the B312 is interruptable on the last hit, if you hit confirm it you can stay safe by doing B31 on block (-4).

The JI2 into Dark Shrould does 16%, and sets up the "50/50"


JI2, 112xxDF2, F3(runcancel)xxB312 (16 + 23 = 39%)
JI2, 112xxDF2, F3(Hold) F2xxDB1 (16 + 29 = 45%)

Tip for Run Cancel, Tanya's F input in the F3 counts as part of the run cancel, so after F3 you can just press F+Blk to go straight into the run, it makes it much easier.
 
K

Khan

Noob
Yeah, im not sure how hard reacting to the run cancel is since i dont have someone to test it against offline. If anyone here can try to test offline that would help,
 
Jimmypotato

Jimmypotato

Mid Tier
Braindead said:
Time to blow me up, but that looks reactable to someone who knows what to expect.
Click to expand...
If you do the run cancel right, it's pretty tough to react too.

At the same time, even if they do block it's safe. so thats nice.

if they are blocking you alot, you could try something like 34, DF2. It builds you really good meter and leaves you at Minus 4 which is also nice.
 
MsMiharo

MsMiharo

Kuff Bano
Also mad chip from that string even if they block right. EDIT: from the low that is. Just train them to block low and surprise them with the OH
 
Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Run Cancel into delayed B3, then you will see if they're reacting to it, or just fuzzy guarding.
 
S

Sultani

Noob
If the overhead is run cancelled fast enough into the mixup it's hard to react to. It's easier if the execution of the cancelled over head is delayed.

I suck at executing this so I couldn't record it fast enough to try, but I doubt overhead, run cancel, and the startup of the followup mixup can all happen within the 52 frame window. If it can, then you just have to block this. If it can't, a fast poke, backdash, or armor could get you out.

I wanted to record the OH, run cancel, B3 as fast as I could, then see if you could stand up when her leg goes in the air and do like a D1 once she starts running.

If the overhead is held for a long time, you'll probably come out of hitstun before she can even use the frame advantage to do this. So you can pretty much assume that if the OH isn't cancelled really fast, it's not coming. If smeone tries this to you with an OH that's held for a long time, just punch them in the face.

Edit: b3 start up is 12. F3 is 24. Both a held overhead and a run cancelled oh into low should be able to happen within the plus 52 window from dark shroud. This is pretty legit.
 
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S

Sultani

Noob
Devin Thorn said:
So the trick is ji2 shroud then either the charges over head or b31 follow up?
Click to expand...
sort of, you can dark shroud after any string or just go right into it from a ji2.

The trick is that landed dark shroud (which is safe on block) is +52 on hit. So you have 52 frames to either charge the overhead, or fake it by starting it up and run cancelling out of it into B31. Basically it's using the frame advantage from a landed dark shroud to attempt a follow up mixup from F3, or F3 RC B31. You could just do either a straight overhead or go right into B31 too, but that is much easier to defend.
 
Devin Thorn

Devin Thorn

chimp damage
Ahh yeah I get you. I noticed her corner pressure is deceptively strong. I've been mixing up 11shroud, 112 shroud, b31shroud and b31db4 to some good results this far, meter burning her flip kick is good for stuffing wake ups too
 
SaltShaker

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
I came in here only to say that this mix up is legit.

If you're able to do D'Vorah/Liu type run cancels for string extensions, then this is cake and very hard to block on reaction.

It may not be the 50/50 we want, but it's the 50/50 we deserve.
 
Devin Thorn

Devin Thorn

chimp damage
She doesn't feel broken but just extremely solid which is really awesome honestly, she can play yolo, keep away, pressure, and even some rush down it seems. But she feels like an honest character. Just day one but that's first impression
 
DOOMSDAY-15RUS-

DOOMSDAY-15RUS-

i'LL DESTROY YOU ALL
not really safe, do you know that after B+3,1 there is a big window that can be punished? and even after B+3 there is a window but this one looks like a bug, very fast but there is a window anyway
 
GLoRToR

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
Everything is reactable on naked execution if you know it's coming. Tech like this are not definitive flowchart battle plans, they are part of your arsenal.
Good find, I like this.
 
K

Khan

Noob
DOOMSDAY-15RUS- said:
not really safe, do you know that after B+3,1 there is a big window that can be punished? and even after B+3 there is a window but this one looks like a bug, very fast but there is a window anyway
Click to expand...
I said in the OP that there is a gap in between the 1 and 2 of B312, However the gap in B31 didn't seem it should be there
 
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