Question Realistice Bane Buffs, Yes or No?

[PND_Mustard]

Hey guys, here are a few changes i think Bane needs, not necessarily to make him top tier, but just changes that in my opinion, would make him a decent, proper character.

also, i have been maining Bane since day 1, so i've done my best to play him properly, and these change ideas are based off of talks with other Bane players/ other tournament players.

first things first:

FIXES:

MB command throw retains it's properties to change direction you throw the opponent in when the attack ends the round, if you end a round in MB command throw you, for some reason, cannot change which direction you throw the opponent in. even though you can normally.

either Venom pauses during transitions/Supers/Clashes, or Debuff runs out after each as well as venom does now. i see no fair reason why Venom works the way it does right now.

BUFFS:

All negative effects of Venom debuff removed, Aside from a 25% damage debuff until venom is accessible again after using level 3 Venom. (i honestly don't see why using trait should be ever be considered self destructive, level 3 venom grants armour breaking properties to your specials, which is great, however Superman gets these same properties on ALL of his attacks the moment he activates trait, along with an overall damage buff also, and suffers no negative effects once it runs out.)

Slight increase to venomless combo damage. (right now outside of the corner Bane's standing BNB's from b23 gets him a max meterless damage of 29%, which is just downright terrible when compared to other members of the cast, and that's off his launching string, which is highly whiff punishable, it's a small payout for relatively high risk.) have the damage scale accordingly when higher levels of venom is used.

Right now i think these are the only things Bane really Needs. i have a few other suggestions but i really didn't want to go overboard.

what do you guys think of these possibilities?

colt REO RYX Tom Brady

 

[RYX]

It makes me happy to see myself tagged.

Yeah, this is a really good start for right now. I think the best thing is to do it like this and see where it'll get us.

 

[PND_Mustard]

i know it's early days, so i very much expect to be told to wait before making requests like this. but i'm just throwing it out there as a possibility.

 

[Deleted member 5032]

PND_Mustard Those changes sound great, but the problem is they would have to change Bane's fundamental design (which I believe is severely flawed, so I'd be in favor of it). Without side effects, there's no real reason not to go level 3 venom, except for time management (going level 1, wait, level 2, wait, level 3), but that's not really viable since you never know how a match is going to play out.

Without changing his fundamental design, I believe there will have to be some drawbacks to venom usage. I think a slight damage nerft would be acceptable (maybe 25% opposite of what his buff is), which would allow the Bane play to pick and choose his rampages without totally dicking him. However, I believe his health nerf should be removed entirely. He should not take more damage while his trait is on cooldown. The speed nerf is also unnecessary.

One last thought: If they gave some of his moves natural armor, like Grundy's Walking Corpse, then they could remove his armored properties as an acceptable debuff during cooldown while simultaneously buffing his venomless game.

 

[RapZiLLa54]

I also think Venom needs to make his specials none parry-able and he needs to be able to cancel his running charge move ala Grundy.

 

[LEGI0N47]

Well put. Of course I'm on board.

We've debated it a bit in the other thread and for those that feel he should have some kind of debuff I wouldn't be upset if your damage delt while on cooldown stayed pretty much the same. Just let us have our movement speed and not take absurd amounts of extra damage. I know a few others wouldn't have much issue wtih this either.

 

[shaowebb]

I'm not certain he should get Superman good with no debuff penalties but I'd be down for shortening the length of them. Right now Bane is my go to backup online when Green Arrow can't get it done and debuff of course is my worst enemy. If nothing else get rid of the slowdown if they want to keep the risk reward aspect of him taking increased damage. He was never fast to begin with so just let me run.

Also yes...FIX the MB throw.

 

[PND_Mustard]

PND_Mustard Those changes sound great, but the problem is they would have to change Bane's fundamental design (which I believe is severely flawed, so I'd be in favor of it). Without side effects, there's no real reason not to go level 3 venom, except for time management (going level 1, wait, level 2, wait, level 3), but that's not really viable since you never know how a match is going to play out.

Without changing his fundamental design, I believe there will have to be some drawbacks to venom usage. I think a slight damage nerft would be acceptable (maybe 25% opposite of what his buff is), which would allow the Bane play to pick and choose his rampages without totally dicking him. However, I believe his health nerf should be removed entirely. He should not take more damage while his trait is on cooldown. The speed nerf is also unnecessary.

One last thought: If they gave some of his moves natural armor, like Grundy's Walking Corpse, then they could remove his armored properties as an acceptable debuff during cooldown while simultaneously buffing his venomless game.

i agree, changed OP to mention the 25% damage debuff after using level 3 until it has cooled down.

 

[RYX]

I'm not certain he should get Superman good with no debuff penalties but I'd be down for shortening the length of them. Right now Bane is my go to backup online when Green Arrow can't get it done and debuff of course is my worst enemy. If nothing else get rid of the slowdown if they want to keep the risk reward aspect of him taking increased damage. He was never fast to begin with so just let me run.

Also yes...FIX the MB throw.

Bane will never be Superman good. :16Bit

 

[Deleted member 5032]

i agree, changed OP to mention the 25% damage debuff after using level 3 until it has cooled down.

Oh, what I meant was 25% opposite of whatever his Venom buff was. If there are multiple tiers of buffs, there would have to be multiple tiers of debuffs, but they should only be damage related and not health or speed related.

 

[Konqrr]

FIXES:

MB command throw retains it's properties to change direction you throw the opponent in when the attack ends the round, if you end a round in MB command throw you, for some reason, cannot change which direction you throw the opponent in. even though you can normally.

This is not an easy fix as it affects other characters as well like Frost who's U3 keeps her opponent on the same side if it kills them ;_;

 

[PND_Mustard]

Oh, what I meant was 25% opposite of whatever his Venom buff was. If there are multiple tiers of buffs, there would have to be multiple tiers of debuffs, but they should only be damage related and not health or speed related.

personally i only think he should recieve any kind if negative effect if he uses level 3, it grants the biggest boost, whereas level 1/2 don't buff his damage to the point of being Nonsense in certain situations, it would discourage people from whoring out level 3 constantly, but also still making it a good idea to use in the right situations, and not absolute suicide.

 

[Deleted member 5032]

His dashes could also use some touching-up. His backdash is pretty awesome, but his forward dash is booty, especially for a character with no ranged attacks. I recorded Deathstroke spamming High Shots, which most characters can dash/duck through, and Bane's dash is too slow for him to do so. I'll have to mess around with an actual human opponent to know for sure, but I believe I can just spam High Shot, and there's not a damn thing Bane can do except Bull Rush, which I can jump and punish no problem.

 

[PND_Mustard]

This is not an easy fix as it affects other characters as well like Frost who's U3 keeps her opponent on the same side if it kills them ;_;

i just hope it gets sorted for Bane, ill throw someone whos escaping the corner and before i know it i cant swap, and they get thrown fullscreen D:

 

[chief713]

I don't think he needs any debuffs. Considering how hard it is to get in and that Bane absolutely NEEDS venom to even be remotely decent, it's stupid for him to be weakened at all after using his trait. Superman's trait +1 hit of armor isn't going to break Bane; it's going to make him viable. The only reason at all why there should be a debuff on venom is because it's canon to the comics. And if we're going that route, then Batman, Joker, Harley, Nightwing, Green Arrow, Bane, Catwoman, Lex Luthor and Deathstroke should all get OHKO'd by Superman and Doomsday.

 

[RYX]

I don't think he needs any debuffs. Considering how hard it is to get in and that Bane absolutely NEEDS venom to even be remotely decent, it's stupid for him to be weakened at all after using his trait. Superman's trait +1 hit of armor isn't going to break Bane; it's going to make him viable. The only reason at all why there should be a debuff on venom is because it's canon to the comics. And if we're going that route, then Batman, Joker, Harley, Nightwing, Green Arrow, Bane, Catwoman, Lex Luthor and Deathstroke should all get OHKO'd by Superman and Doomsday.

Please. Bane would body everybody.

 

[HardlyWalken]

I agree with the original post. The Venom debuff NEEDS work. Regarding Venom, it should carry a small 10% damage penalty at Level 2. There should be no damage penalty on level 1. There, now there's a reason to use each level. That's just my opinion. Level 2 is a 125% buff, one hit of armor on specials with a five second cooldown - that's way better than anyone else's trait, so there should be a small penalty.

I personally think that Venom Charge NEEDS some form of cancel, maybe it should be backdash (and ONLY backdash) cancelleable. I feel that this is a bad move because it has the 3 properties of a bad move: huge startup, cannot be cancelled, fully punishable. Good moves don't have all 3 of those things.

I agree with everything else. He should be very competitive with your fixes and the small changes I listed. We are mostly in agreement.

 

[big_aug]

Yes, I think they should make changes to Venom and see where that goes. As I said before, I think changing Venom will make a massive difference.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

PND_Mustard Those changes sound great, but the problem is they would have to change Bane's fundamental design (which I believe is severely flawed, so I'd be in favor of it). Without side effects, there's no real reason not to go level 3 venom, except for time management (going level 1, wait, level 2, wait, level 3), but that's not really viable since you never know how a match is going to play out.

Without changing his fundamental design, I believe there will have to be some drawbacks to venom usage. I think a slight damage nerft would be acceptable (maybe 25% opposite of what his buff is), which would allow the Bane play to pick and choose his rampages without totally dicking him. However, I believe his health nerf should be removed entirely. He should not take more damage while his trait is on cooldown. The speed nerf is also unnecessary.

One last thought: If they gave some of his moves natural armor, like Grundy's Walking Corpse, then they could remove his armored properties as an acceptable debuff during cooldown while simultaneously buffing his venomless game.

I actually really like these. Very reasonable.

 

[AA25Mamba]

I'm with you, PND_Mustard . Aside from what you said, the only way I think the Venom can remain without debuffs is if you can pop LVL 3 and have the damage taken increase if that level was used.

 

[Stuck]

Hey guys, here are a few changes i think Bane needs, not necessarily to make him top tier, but just changes that in my opinion, would make him a decent, proper character.

also, i have been maining Bane since day 1, so i've done my best to play him properly, and these change ideas are based off of talks with other Bane players/ other tournament players.

first things first:

FIXES:

MB command throw retains it's properties to change direction you throw the opponent in when the attack ends the round, if you end a round in MB command throw you, for some reason, cannot change which direction you throw the opponent in. even though you can normally.

BUFFS:

All negative effects of Venom debuff removed, Aside from a 25% damage debuff until venom is accessible again after using level 3 Venom. (i honestly don't see why using trait should be ever be considered self destructive, level 3 venom grants armour breaking properties to your specials, which is great, however Superman gets these same properties on ALL of his attacks the moment he activates trait, along with an overall damage buff also, and suffers no negative effects once it runs out.)

Slight increase to venomless combo damage. (right now outside of the corner Bane's standing BNB's from b23 gets him a max meterless damage of 29%, which is just downright terrible when compared to other members of the cast, and that's off his launching string, which is highly whiff punishable, it's a small payout for relatively high risk.) have the damage scale accordingly when higher levels of venom is used.

Right now i think these are the only things Bane really Needs. i have a few other suggestions but i really didn't want to go overboard.

what do you guys think of these possibilities?

colt REO RYX Tom Brady

I've been maining Bane since day 1 and Catwoman since week 2. I believe Bane would improve greatly if he received projectile immunity and armor breaking at Level 2 venom as well as level 3 venom. That way you won't be forced to use level 3 venom just to get in. IMO it's way to difficult to get in on the multi hitting projectiles without using level 3. ala Supes, Deathstroke, Batman, Black Adam, who am I missing? It's not like those characters are doomed once you get in either.

He should keep his debuffs when cooling down, just cut them back about 33%. The cool down time is necessary for his design. I love the risk reward design of this character. It's just way too tilted towards risk at the moment. Slowing down his movement speed needs to be eliminated completely though.

I'm in complete agreement with your fixes though.

 

[-Deadman-]

I'd just like to add, if lv3 venom charge is to be projectile immune, then make it to where when Lantern/Bats MB their Rocket/Batarang it doesn't drop you mid charge.

I'm almost scared to mention charge in a buff thread because by the time they add all the necessary additions to it its going to have to be -23 on block to make it fair.

 

[RWDY Nori]

Good thread

 

[mononaut]

What bane needs is the ability to MB his charge before it lands to catch people jumping over it. As he is, all you have to do to beat bane is take a life lead and just stand there at 3/4 screen, wait for him to charge because he has no approach, jump over it, punish with full combo.

 

[WLK_EdwarD]

Agree, yes bane need changes!