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Match-up Discussion Rain Matchup Discussion Thread

Husteen

Noob.
What do you all think of the Rain/Mileena matchup? I'm curious, because I don't know if it's just the quality of Rain's online or if it's really a matchup problem for him. Out of all the Mil/Rain matches I've played, only one player has ever won against me, and even then, they only won one game. I'm not saying it to brag about myself, but just to say that while I've played the matchup and mostly won, I still don't feel adequate enough to call this one yet.

I wonder what Rain has that beats her, or vice versa. I don't think I can comment much on this matchup because in all those games, I still don't feel like I know what Rain is truly capable of yet.
i always prefer to use rain against mileena. main reason is he can punish her blocked roll and blocked teleport kick with high damage and then reset her a bunch of times with roundhouse/grabs and what not. he basically punishes her mashing- which all mileenas do.
 
Got some experience with the Rain/Kabal match-up. Fucking sucked lol. A defensive Kabal is hard to deal with. Ground Saw can eat a dick lol.


DO NOT TRY TO EX TELEPORT A GROUND SAW! The Ex Teleport will completely wiff.
 

Marcus

Mortal Kombat Philippines / Injustice Philippines
^noted

Any idea on how to beat a Cyrax.

- lightning will lead to teleport to a combo
- Rain's tele will lead to a full combo
- Zoning isnt really a good idea for Rain IMO. Rushing him down aint the easiest thing to do as well.

Im sure im just doing something wrong. Help?
 

Quantus

Rain for MK12 Kombat Pack 3
Any help with the Kenshi matchup?

Once he has you out it is incredibly hard to get in without EX-port. Teleport is punished by his shoulder push.
 

Marcus

Mortal Kombat Philippines / Injustice Philippines
Any help with the Kenshi matchup?

Once he has you out it is incredibly hard to get in without EX-port. Teleport is punished by his shoulder push.
Havent really played against a Kenshi but Im assuming its almost the same as going against Ermac... dash block, dont jump, 43?
 

BookBurning

Voidwards
It's a very hard matchup for Rain; you have to be very patient and hopefully you can get in on her and do some damage. Try to check her with lightning occasionally and do a water bubble and drag her over to you. Other than that there's not much you can do other than try to bait and get in on her as best as you can. Ex Teleport can help you out too.
 
It's a very hard matchup for Rain; you have to be very patient and hopefully you can get in on her and do some damage. Try to check her with lightning occasionally and do a water bubble and drag her over to you. Other than that there's not much you can do other than try to bait and get in on her as best as you can. Ex Teleport can help you out too.

My main tactic was doing low poke and starting RH cancel pressure. Is that a good idea or u have better ?
 

BookBurning

Voidwards
[MENTION=8024]Anxiety[/MENTION]

Well I'm fortunate enough to have played OSU16Bit quite alot since he's my main Kitana practice. The fight really is a struggle and simply/funnily enough, the best advice I can give is DON'T JUMP. Even if you're aching to jump, don't do it.

You have to play conservatively for the most part and save your meter for EX Teleports and Roundhouses. When she throws a fan, EX teleport not only to do damage, but give you the ability to get in on her. If she tries to IAF, you can throw out a waterball and catch her as she goes back to the ground, that seems to actually work quite a bit if you have good timing; drag her into you and begin your offense as long as you can. Also check her with lightning from time to time, don't throw them out carelessly but do it to make her fan throwing more conservative.

Point in point, Rain will lose this fight if Kitana has her way and forces a zoning game; he cannot zone and will lose every trade. That's why you never try to trade with lightning, you had to read with it instead.

THE BIGGEST thing in this matchup is Smart Teleports whether they be EX or standard, lightning and waterball. Obviously as Rain you have to rely heavily on your good melee offense but the key point of this matchup revolves around getting to a point where you can actually be offensive. So.

1. Get in with smart teleports and dash blocking, and be patient about it. Don't be careless with teleports, they're very punishable and she can get you with a D1 into a combo if she catches you.

2. Once you're in start your offense and mixups with RH cancels thrown into it.

3. Repeat if she tries to zone once again. If she comes at you, go toe to toe with her the best you can and also make use of EX RH armored dash cancels to blast through her offense and once again get her into your own.

That's really all there is to it man, it's not easy. But it's one of Rains bad matchups.

Also if she tries to air boost away, dash towards the direction she's boosting to and go at it again, it's not a safe move.

Sorry for taking an ugodly long time to reply, I actually forgot about responding and just now randomly looked back at this thread. My apologies bro. Make it Rain. :)
 

Gamma

Plays too much Civ
New to Rain and as a result, I will ask the obvious question, what are his best and worst match-ups as of now? And how do you approach his weaker match-ups?
 

BookBurning

Voidwards
New to Rain and as a result, I will ask the obvious question, what are his best and worst match-ups as of now? And how do you approach his weaker match-ups?
Rain almost goes 5-5 with everyone ironically, but his worst 3 matches are going to be Kitana, Kabal and Sub-Zero. Also a good Kenshi seems to give him a little trouble, atleast for me, but not near as much as Kitana, Kabal and Sub-Zero.

The common theme amongst all these people is that they can keep Rain out and they do it particularly well. Really the key to approaching any of these is patience while you try to work your way in, all 3 of these characters have good offense along with zoning so it's not particularly free once you're in either; also all 3 can easily punish his teleport, so be reserved when using it. Just like I listed above, it's a matter of working your way in patiently and exploding with offense whenever you get the chance. Not an easy task at all against a good player.
 

Marcus

Mortal Kombat Philippines / Injustice Philippines
Want to add that a good zoning Sektor is very hard to beat. Given that an EX geyser kick is your easiest way to get in.
 

STB Bodam

"Game... Blouses."
=============
Here's how I see it
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vs Baraka
7/3 - It might be 6/4 to me. I'm terribly inexperienced but I think I know what I'm doing wrong. It could be just my style that I play Rain which can be rather unorthodox. I have a hard time recognizing where his strings hit so maybe I just need to go lab with him due to the influx of recent Baraka players that have popped up. Any more feedback on this matchup would be awesome, though.

My Opinion: 6 / 4 Could use some tips against him


vs Ermac
6/4 - I don't know what I'm doing wrong but I must be doing something. I try to not grant him any wake-ups with the bubble resets and ending all of my highest damage outputs with the H20 Blast (regular and ex.). I tend to eat a lot of wake-ups against him but this sounds like a "me" problem. In theory, our mind-games should be stronger but it's all dependent on the player.

My Opinion: 4 / 6 HELP! Cannot deal enough damage to defensive players


vs Freddy Krueger
5/5 - The only top level player I've played who has used Freddy is DarKNatas (XBL) so excuse me if I'm going off of only one matchup. But it seems like 5/5 to me. Obviously, he can easily get out but you can check him with lightning when you get a read on a teleport stepping back and force him to either use a breaker/do a combo or setup for your reset and make him make a move. A controlled defensive Rain player should have no issues getting in most Freddy players, I feel like but I'd be curious to hear from all of you as to how you deal with him.

My Opinion: 5 / 5 Comfortable but definitely need more experience


vs Jade
6/4 - I would argue this is 7/3 or even 8/2 but I think I just develop great rhythm against her due to how long her animations are. I've never looked at her frame data, but I would imagine she's one of the more handicapped characters in the game. Seems like she can't adjust quick enough and Rain's pressure is too much.

My Opinion: 7 / 3 Very comfortable against this character


vs Jax
6/4 - Ugh... I just get picked apart in this matchup. It's hard to really get all your blockstrings off against him. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, I don't know but a good Jax player is hard to get off, in my opinion. To me it's 4/6.

My Opinion: 4 / 6 HELP! Just cannot get any pressure going


vs Johnny Cage
5/5 - I strongly feel that any matchup with a rushdown character is in heavy favor of Cage. But I'll agree, the tools are definitely there to win. All about frustrating Cage players and the biggest thing of all -- don't jump! Especially if they can establish the 1-Dash-F3 starter as an anti-air. Just know what you can and cannot do; and always remember to stay safe against him. He can turn around a game as quickly if not quicker than we can.

My Opinion: 4 / 6 HELP! Really don't know how to handle his pressure


vs Kabal
4/6 - I think it's safe to say all the best, Hell, even some of the sloppier ones will try to give you the business with F3-B2-Nomad Dash cancel and that alone is a game-changer. Against good Kabal players you get no choice but to save all of your meter for ex. Roundhouse kicks for shielded dashes and ex. RH punishes. All of this is without mentioning that Kabal's zoning can create some of the most frustrating experiences you'll have with Rain. Simply put, I feel this is a matchup that is won in the character select screen more often than not. It's possible to win, but you're going to have to work *every time* and be completely on top of your game.

My Opinion: 4 / 6 Not sure how to deal with F3-B2-Nomad Cancel strings


vs Kano
5/5 - I do agree this is a 5/5 however, I feel it's more closer to 5.5/4.5 for us. It's not hard to get in on Kano and more often than not, you can punish all but the best Kano players upballs. Just really need to establish a rhythm and make Kano work for his blockstrings and this matchup is all downhill from there for Kano. Then again, I really do feel that the best Kano players don't play on Xbox due to the directional pads.

My Opinion: 6 / 4 I usually do well with just about everyone's


vs Kenshi
6/4 - It's more 5/5 I feel than anything as it could really go either way but if you play a good counter zoning game, I could see how this matchup would be 6/4. It's just about your reads against him. Kenshi is a very predictable character even in the right hands and can be countered perfectly if you know how to react. I strongly suggest finding a sparring partner who can use Kenshi effectively, this is a great matchup to work on safe blockstrings and making better reads.

My Opinion: 5 / 5 Struggle guessing sometimes but you can surprise him quick


vs Kitana
5/5 - If this is really a 5/5 matchup, I gotta be doing it wrong . *PLEASE help me!* I don't jump, I'm getting better at poking her strings but sometimes, she can just dominate air-space with her Pretty Kick and IA-Fans. It's frustratingly hard to get anything going in a rhythmical fashion. It might come down to having to do 4-3-RH Cancels better but she just pressures me like no other. I'd rather take on three Kabals before I play a Kitana.

My Opinion: 3 / 7 Controlling air-space and wake ups is where I struggle


vs Kung Lao
3/7


vs Liu Kang
6/4

vs Mileena
5/5


vs Nightwolf
5/5

vs Noob Saibot
6/4

vs Quan Chi
4/6

vs Raiden
4/6

vs Reptile
5/5

vs Scorpion
5/5

vs Sektor
6/4 - My strategy against Sektor is always ever-changing. It's hard to get in sometimes and when you do; you have to make the most of it. Your pressure should give him some problems but you do not want to be juggled with his low starter -- simply put, it's his best tool in this matchup because most Rain players don't jump a whole lot therefore negating his Teleport Punch setups. For me, it's a solid 5/5. It can go either way if both players play it smart but I'm nowhere near as good with Rain as I should be. I've seen Book Burning's video against LuciousAxelrod (one of my favorite Sektors on X360) and since tried to adapt. But if you can use 1 as an Anti-Air; you'll be fine more often not. That's my biggest problem with this matchup.

My Opinion: 5 / 5 Fairly comfortable but always open to new stuff


vs Shang Tsung
6/4 - This is a solid 6/4 but once again, you have to know how to play this character. Those Ground Skull combos can be an absolute killer but if you can bait them and react well to them, you can get in and it'll be hard for Shang to get you off. Also, I've noticed that most Shang players aren't as familiar with Rain as they are with some of the other characters but that's nothing to do with anything but the player. Just a note I wanted to make.

My Opinion: 6 / 4 Would be very curious to see what BB and others do


vs Sheeva
7/3 - I mean no offense to Sheeva players but this is a match that is won at the character select screen. Not only can you just Geyser Kick every jump stomp and use it as an Anti-Air/Crossover but the ex. Teleport is just kryponite to Sheeva players when you use it as a counter. Also, if the Sheeva player does manage to get in, it's fairly easy to get into your pressure strings. Personally, I believe this is almost a 8/2 matchup but I've never played anyone who uses her the right way, in my opinion.

My Opinion: 8 / 2 Very comfortable


vs Sindel
6/4 - I agree this is 6/4 but if you go in being careless against Sindel, she will mess you up. Her wake-up game alone will give you a lot of problems if you aren't making your combos safe with the bubble reset or ending it with the H20 Blast. Her zoning game isn't the hardest to work around but most Sindel players like to read and buffer when you're going to teleport and react to it with her Step-Up move. It really can be a game changer and make you second think your strategy if you begin to fear the low option. I don't recommend throwing a whole lot of ex. Teleports around but it can be used as a frustrating tool against her if you know how to bait it.

My Opinion: 6 / 4 Fairly comfortable but open to improvements


vs Skarlet
x/x - Before the patch that ruined her, this was a solid 4/6 matchup for Skarlet and I truly believe that. Her mid-range game was a shipwreck waiting to happen for you. But since the patch has negated that or at least slowed it down; Skarlet really doesn't have a whole lot going for her in this matchup. Rain's combination of mind-games, armored kicks and resets can really overwhelm most Skarlet players. What a lot of people don't know is that Skarlet's teleport is very punishable, I believe it must be blocked but if you're quick enough you can 4-3 into anything you want. If I'm not mistaken, this is a 6/4 almost 7/3 in Rain's favor.

My Opinion: 6 / 4 No worries here anymore


vs Smoke
6/4 - Another character I have a hard time with. Smoke bombs and teleport aren't a big deal, really. It's the Smoke Away and Towards 3-D1-2 combo that gives me the most problems. I think it could be that I respect Smoke's options too much to poke out more but I have a really hard time with it for some reason. Really, I don't get beat by much else by Smoke. It's mainly that. If anyone can help me out here and let me know why this is such a favorable matchup, that would be appreciated. I swear, for me this is 3-7.

My Opinion: 3 / 7 HELP!


vs Sonya Blade
5/5 - Lies. Sonya's pressure is seemingly always one step ahead of mine. I really have no idea what to do against top level Sonya players besides poke and do what I can. Can someone please help me if you do well against most Sonya's?

My Opinion: 3 / 7 HELP! Just clueless here


vs Stryker
7/3 - Stryker can be very underrated and I feel this is one of those instances. He's got some nice strings that can give Rain some problems and his specials make you pay if you don't adjust to exactly what you're supposed to do. While Rain's teleport completely negates the Grenade Toss/Shoot, Shoot trade. All that said, I feel like this is a perfect 6/4 for us as long as you know what to expect. Then again, this might be the scarcest character used in MK9. Always respect a good Stryker player and know what works and what doesn't. I strongly suggest learning where all of his moves hit and what you can do to react to it.

My Opinion: 6 / 4 Need to work on more effective strategies, help if you can


vs Sub-Zero
6/4 - If this is a 6/4 then I guess I'm doing it wrong. For me, it's like pick your poison. Yeah, I know how to get around Ice Clones and I'm pretty good at reacting to Ice Balls and don't get me started on Slides. I know, block low on wake-up every time with these bastards but how do you establish any sort of rhythm against him? I would LOVE to see how Book, Zeppelli, Knot Terror or any other top Rain players plays most Subbys. The pressure game can be strong but not enough to overwhelm Sub-Zero like it does the rest of the cast. More often than not I will provide a good fight but will ultimately prove to be too much for me. I need to get a capture card to get some video and see if anyone can help me. This is gonna kill me if it really is that heavily in Rain's favor and I just don't know it.

My Opinion: 2 / 8 HELP! Good SZs will keep me out, any help would be appreciated
 

x18x2xwildx

Something wicked this way comes.
So, I'm guessing Mileena's best option here is to attempt to zone him out and punish any attempt at a teleport? He beats her up close and his armored RH buzzes right through her mix-ups. I guess I need to look at this match like Cage: stay away and attempt to read the counter. The only problem being with Rain I also have to fear a Cyrax-level of punishment off of one mistake.
 

BookBurning

Voidwards
Mileena vs Rain is a 5-5. The thing that you have to watch out for as a Mileena player is that Rain can hard punish almost any mistake she makes, mostly because Rain can fully punish anything that leaves the opponent air-born. Just play conservatively and cautious and don't throw out random tele-kicks or roll balls unless you're using them for anti-air purposes.
 

SunLord5

Dualshock 2 User
I agree with the 3/7 sonyas favor
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Here's how I see it
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vs Sonya Blade
5/5 - Lies. Sonya's pressure is seemingly always one step ahead of mine. I really have no idea what to do against top level Sonya players besides poke and do what I can. Can someone please help me if you do well against most Sonya's?

My Opinion: 3 / 7 HELP! Just clueless here

vs Sub-Zero
6/4 - If this is a 6/4 then I guess I'm doing it wrong. For me, it's like pick your poison. Yeah, I know how to get around Ice Clones and I'm pretty good at reacting to Ice Balls and don't get me started on Slides. I know, block low on wake-up every time with these bastards but how do you establish any sort of rhythm against him? I would LOVE to see how Book, Zeppelli, Knot Terror or any other top Rain players plays most Subbys. The pressure game can be strong but not enough to overwhelm Sub-Zero like it does the rest of the cast. More often than not I will provide a good fight but will ultimately prove to be too much for me. I need to get a capture card to get some video and see if anyone can help me. This is gonna kill me if it really is that heavily in Rain's favor and I just don't know it.

My Opinion: 2 / 8 HELP! Good SZs will keep me out, any help would be appreciated
I agree with this. I dunno how Rain would deal with either of these characters reliably.
 

BookBurning

Voidwards
Sub-Zero is a 5 /5 in my opinion. Sub-Zero can't throw out Ice clones without being checked by lightning and lightning has the ability to stuff both freeze and clone respectfully. It becomes a problem for Rain when Rain is pushed to the corner in which case you have to armor through at intelligent times and poke your way out. Don't jump out.

This really comes down to a footsy game. I went about 50/50 with Lionheart V1 who I consider a good Sub player with Rain and we both agreed it was 5/5. You just have to play smart and can't go apeshit with Rushdown. Slow and steady with bursts of aggressive offense when the opportunity presents itself wins this match; it's all about creating that opportunity.

Also note that Sub-Zero will have to come to you eventually. He can't sit back and throw ice balls forever unless he has a life lead, it will go back and forth.

With Sonya I have a feeling it's around 6/4 in Sonya's favor. You can win but you have to play slowly again and be constantly on the look out for counter armored cartwheels while you're pressuring her. You have to be good at footsies and poking in general to win the match. I'm not as knowledgeable on this matchup yet though so I'm still reserving my opinion on the actual MU numbers.