Match-up Discussion Rain Matchup Discussion Thread

[Konqrr]

The point of this thread is to discuss matchups to make the Matchup Chart as accurate as possible.

The Matchup Chart thread:
http://testyourmight.com/forum/showthread.php?3075-Mortal-Kombat-(2011)-Matchup-Chart

When you discuss or list what you think the matchups are, please do so in alphabetical order. Also, they should be listed in either whole numbers or .5 notations.

The current Matchup Chart for Rain is as follows:
vs Baraka
vs Cyber Sub-Zero
vs Cyrax
vs Ermac
vs Freddy Krueger
vs Jade
vs Jax
vs Johnny Cage
vs Kabal
vs Kano
vs Kenshi
vs Kitana
vs Kung Lao
vs Liu Kang
vs Mileena
vs Nightwolf
vs Noob Saibot
vs Quan Chi
vs Raiden
vs Reptile
vs Scorpion
vs Sektor
vs Shang Tsung
vs Sheeva
vs Sindel
vs Skarlet
vs Smoke
vs Sonya Blade
vs Stryker
vs Sub-Zero

Agree? Disagree? DISCUSS!

 

[BookBurning]

This post has since been deleted.

 

[shinzo123]

This list is rough but I'll add my personal beliefs in and clarify why if anyone asks.

Eventually I'll just add them on here as time goes on. (Also this is, of course, subject to change.)

vs Baraka 7/3
vs Cyber Sub-Zero 4/6
vs Cyrax 5/5
vs Ermac 6/4
vs Freddy Krueger x/x
vs Jade 6/4
vs Jax 6/4
vs Johnny Cage 5/5
vs Kabal 4/6
vs Kano 5/5
vs Kenshi 6/4
vs Kitana 5/5
vs Kung Lao 3/7
vs Liu Kang 6/4
vs Mileena 5/5
vs Nightwolf 5/5
vs Noob Saibot 6/4
vs Quan Chi 4/6
vs Raiden 4/6
vs Reptile 5/5
vs Scorpion 5/5
vs Sektor 6/4
vs Shang Tsung 6/4
vs Sheeva 7/3
vs Sindel 6/4
vs Skarlet x/x
vs Smoke 6/4
vs Sonya Blade 5/5
vs Stryker 7/3
vs Sub-Zero 6/4

Pretty accurate, although you are off on a few things, Rain can block a low hat and then input a EX roundhouse and full combo Kung Lao for low hat pressure, and Johnny Cage can beat the piss out of Rain,

4.5/5.5, Rain/Kung Lao
4/6, Rain/Johnny Cage

 

[Subby]

This list is rough but I'll add my personal beliefs in and clarify why if anyone asks.

Eventually I'll just add them on here as time goes on. (Also this is, of course, subject to change.)

vs Baraka 7/3
vs Cyber Sub-Zero 4/6
vs Cyrax 5/5
vs Ermac 6/4
vs Freddy Krueger x/x
vs Jade 6/4
vs Jax 6/4
vs Johnny Cage 5/5
vs Kabal 4/6
vs Kano 5/5
vs Kenshi 6/4
vs Kitana 4/6
vs Kung Lao 3/7
vs Liu Kang 5/5
vs Mileena 5/5
vs Nightwolf 5/5
vs Noob Saibot 6/4
vs Quan Chi 4/6
vs Raiden 4/6
vs Reptile 4/6
vs Scorpion 5/5
vs Sektor 6/4
vs Shang Tsung 6/4
vs Sheeva 7/3
vs Sindel 6/4
vs Skarlet x/x
vs Smoke 6/4
vs Sonya Blade 5/5
vs Stryker 7/3
vs Sub-Zero 6/4

Please explain The Kenshi, Liu Kang, and Jax match-up. I'm honestly confused on those and I really haven't played against them enough.

 

[BookBurning]

Pretty accurate, although you are off on a few things, Rain can block a low hat and then input a EX roundhouse and full combo Kung Lao for low hat pressure, and Johnny Cage can beat the piss out of Rain,

4.5/5.5, Rain/Kung Lao
4/6, Rain/Johnny Cage

Yeah I agree on the Cage matchup but I don't agree for Kung Lao. Rain's greatest strength is his pressure which is half the time completely nullified by Kung Lao's spin. The block stun off of a 21 low hat also makes it extremely difficult to get an ex roundhouse out if not impossible and Lao wins the projectile war every time.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Rain is pretty much dependent on the opponent being on the ground, so kitana/sindel etc will slap him. His rushdown obviously isnt as good as Cage/KL but he wins vs most of the other characters imo, high damage output/bubble reset/mixups make him pretty sick

 

[Subby]

Rain is pretty much dependent on the opponent being on the ground, so kitana/sindel etc will slap him. His rushdown obviously isnt as good as Cage/KL but he wins vs most of the other characters imo, high damage output/bubble reset/mixups make him pretty sick

So based on BookBurnings match-up list, is there anything you would change?

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

I played a Kitana today that I wasted... then he just jumped around and threw fans... and yeah Rain has no answer to that tactic. Or one i could come up with on the fly.
I think the Sub matchup is more 5-5. He's like JC but can teleport, yet not lock him down. I say this as a Sub player and playing against Rain.
I think I speak for everyone when I say i'd love to hear some of your explanations book. I don't look around for videos of people playing (I like to lose and learn than not play at all ya know) but I watched your battle in the online tourny... and I WISH i could pressure like that.
The Kenshi matchup in particular is one.

 

[BookBurning]

I'm going to add information on all of them here soon, I'm just a tad bit busy at the moment to be honest but I will have it up tonight.

 

[UsedForGlue]

Rain is pretty much dependent on the opponent being on the ground, so kitana/sindel etc will slap him. His rushdown obviously isnt as good as Cage/KL but he wins vs most of the other characters imo, high damage output/bubble reset/mixups make him pretty sick

I agree man, the kitana fight is an absolute grind if kitana won't stay grounded.

 

[BookBurning]

Please explain The Kenshi, Liu Kang, and Jax match-up. I'm honestly confused on those and I really haven't played against them enough.

Kenshi I have less experience with because no one I play with plays as Kenshi. I feel though that this matchup is about 5/5 though. Kenshi's tele-combo can stuff Rain's teleport attempt and if the teleport is successful, he can quickly counter with shoulder to push Rain back. However, I find that even with this, advancing in on Kenshi is not exceedingly difficult with dash blocking and once in, Kenshi can have a difficult time dealing with Rain's Pressure. At the same time though he can cope well enough that it doesn't throw this off-balance in Rain's favor. Essentially Rain has better pressure, however Kenshi has decent space control in this matchup with his psychic overhead move, tele-combo move and shoulder charge. So it tends to go back and forth when facing a high level Kenshi.

Liu Kang I might have to analyze a bit more because I'm beginning to feel that it may be a 6/4 in favor of Rain. Liu Kang has decent pressure, but in my opinion it's not as good as Rain's. Teleports can be punished on reaction however with a low that will lead to a full combo and Liu Kang wins the projectile war. With that said though I still think it's a 5/5. Liu Kang has better projectiles and decent enough pressure and normals while Rain has higher damage output, better pressure and worse projectiles. It's about a 5/5. This matchup is about making Rain come to you while you're at an advantage and when he's in, although at a disadvantage, has decent enough moves to keep Rain at bay.

Jax is a 6/4 because he seems like he can't deal with Rains pressure while Rain can force him to come inwards with Lightning. The thing is, Jax is also mainly an offensive character like Rain but relies on mixups much more than Rain and has much lower damage output. If you play smart Jax will have a hard time coping with your offense, which sucks for him because his offense is also the best tool he has. But in my opinion, it's just not as good and his mixups can be read.

I know this is still rough but I'll add more complete and articulate information the more I gain matchup experience.

 

[TheChad_87]

a total of 145?

... wouldn't that make him, like top 5? I really don't think so ...

 

[BookBurning]

a total of 145?

... wouldn't that make him, like top 5? I really don't think so ...

Some of these matchups are a 4/6 in Rain's opposition. I'm well aware of that and am updating the more I experiment. Also since the chart doesn't have Kenshi, Rain as of my chart is at 140 which will drop to the 130s or even the 120s the more I experiment.

Trust me, I know he's not 145.

 

[CD jr]

90% percent of the matchups on this thread are wrong.sorry but I'm just being honest I don't mean to offend nobodys knowledge of the character.I will be writing my own list soon and explain a little bit about each matchup.rain may not be top tier but he goes 5-5 against almost every character in the game except kenshi,that's roughly a 4-6 against rain just because he is the only character in the game that can punish lighting full screen oh and maybe freddy with the hell claw idk I gotta go to the lab again to check

 

[PeeJaeys]

I think these are based on online games. But damn I'm loving Rains roundhouse. If they are based on onlinge games just throw away the results.

 

[CD jr]

I think these are based on online games. But damn I'm loving Rains roundhouse. If they are based on onlinge games just throw away the results.

dude I got your pm I'm sorr I didn't answer right away but I won't be able to make it today I'm still stuck at work and I sleep during the day

 

[BookBurning]

I'll let CDJR take it from here since I'm stuck in Iowa with no local competition.

And it's all good, I'm not easily offended.

 

[Infiny]

vs Baraka : 7/3
vs Cyber Sub-Zero 4/6
vs Cyrax 4/6
vs Ermac 5/5
vs Freddy Krueger x/x
vs Jade 3/7
vs Jax 7/3
vs Johnny Cage 6/4
vs Kabal 5/5
vs Kano 6/4
vs Kenshi 4/6
vs Kitana 3/7
vs Kung Lao 3/7
vs Liu Kang 4/6
vs Mileena 4/6
vs Nightwolf 4/6
vs Noob Saibot 5/5
vs Quan Chi 6/4
vs Raiden 5/5
vs Reptile 6/4
vs Scorpion 4/6
vs Sektor 3/7
vs Shang Tsung 4/6
vs Sheeva 5/5
vs Sindel 4/6
vs Skarlet x/x
vs Smoke 4/6
vs Sonya Blade 6/4
vs Stryker 6/4
vs Sub-Zero 4/6

Rain is mid- for me.
To much characters can beat him with teleport or special moves :

C-S0 ; S-0 : Ice come very stas , cyber sub has an ice counter, sub can use his ice clone.
Sektor : teleport combo can heavy punish rain
Jade : Doesn't fear projeciles with her special moves
Nightwolf : see Jade
Kitana : best projectiles characters behind shang tsung nullify rain gameplay
Shang tsung : best projectile char of the game, Rain can't touch him.

Other thing :
Rain special moves are quite slow so ...

 

[ZeroEffect]

What do you all think of the Rain/Mileena matchup? I'm curious, because I don't know if it's just the quality of Rain's online or if it's really a matchup problem for him. Out of all the Mil/Rain matches I've played, only one player has ever won against me, and even then, they only won one game. I'm not saying it to brag about myself, but just to say that while I've played the matchup and mostly won, I still don't feel adequate enough to call this one yet.

I wonder what Rain has that beats her, or vice versa. I don't think I can comment much on this matchup because in all those games, I still don't feel like I know what Rain is truly capable of yet.

 

[Subby]

Rain is mid- for me.
To much characters can beat him with teleport or special moves :

C-S0 ; S-0 : Ice come very stas , cyber sub has an ice counter, sub can use his ice clone.
Sektor : teleport combo can heavy punish rain
Jade : Doesn't fear projeciles with her special moves
Nightwolf : see Jade
Kitana : best projectiles characters behind shang tsung nullify rain gameplay
Shang tsung : best projectile char of the game, Rain can't touch him.

Other thing :
Rain special moves are quite slow so ...

I cannot fathom how much I disagree with you on most parts.
First of all, Lightning is not reflectable(Im not even sure it counts as a projectile) and A rain player would NEVER use a water orb naked. So lets look:
Jade:Her projectile pass-through is almost worthless. Her boomerangs are slow and any Rain player would just tele right behind her unscathed.
NightWolf:See Jade.
Kitana:Her fans are GOD awfully slow. Just teleport behind and attack!
Shang Tsung:Once Rain gets meter and tele attacks him, Rain should be ontop of him. After that there is little he can do. His wakeups suck. Just apply pressure and the rest is easy. EX RH makes the task even easier.
S-0:I would know that Ice clone doesn't pose much of a threat to Rain. As with all characters with a tele, Sub-Zero can just walk back of course. Lightning can stuff Ice ball, meaning the only thing Sub-Zero needs to do is to fight him up close, making Ice clone null and void.
Can't comment on Sektor or CSZ yet. Just my insight on this.

 

[Big Pampering]

disagreeee

vs Baraka : 7/3
vs Cyber Sub-Zero 4/6
vs Cyrax 4/6
vs Ermac 5/5
vs Freddy Krueger x/x
vs Jade 3/7
vs Jax 7/3
vs Johnny Cage 6/4
vs Kabal 5/5
vs Kano 6/4
vs Kenshi 4/6
vs Kitana 3/7
vs Kung Lao 3/7
vs Liu Kang 4/6
vs Mileena 4/6
vs Nightwolf 4/6
vs Noob Saibot 5/5
vs Quan Chi 6/4
vs Raiden 5/5
vs Reptile 6/4
vs Scorpion 4/6
vs Sektor 3/7
vs Shang Tsung 4/6
vs Sheeva 5/5
vs Sindel 4/6
vs Skarlet x/x
vs Smoke 4/6
vs Sonya Blade 6/4
vs Stryker 6/4
vs Sub-Zero 4/6

Rain is mid- for me.
To much characters can beat him with teleport or special moves :

C-S0 ; S-0 : Ice come very stas , cyber sub has an ice counter, sub can use his ice clone.
Sektor : teleport combo can heavy punish rain
Jade : Doesn't fear projeciles with her special moves
Nightwolf : see Jade
Kitana : best projectiles characters behind shang tsung nullify rain gameplay
Shang tsung : best projectile char of the game, Rain can't touch him.

Other thing :
Rain special moves are quite slow so ...

I disagreee...

Most of rains specials are actually used for combos like the water bubble, lightning, water gun, geyser kick can all be used in combos and most are actually only useful IN combos, so the specials being slow dont really matter at all as long as they combo. Most of his unpredictable tools come from his teleport, roundhouse/roundhouse cancel. and then u have the combo that can either end in low or overhead which I think is safe on block. The teleport is a great tool to bypass zoning, its like raidens but slower... and the water bubble combo ender leaves you in a frame advantage. the roundhouse cancel is a really good setup for a grab and rains grab is a pretty good one because it leaves you in a much better position than grabs of other chara's

but the watergun and power boost are practically useless in competitive gaming.

The summer jam provided a nice amount of matchup info and possibilities of rain and from what Ive seen he can be between mid and high tier in good hands.

 

[Subby]

but the watergun and power boost are practically useless in competitive gaming.

Honestly, I think the water gun is good when it comes to stuffing attacks and opponents doing long jump-ins. Also if you end a combo with the Water gun, they cannot to a recovery attack.
I agree on all of your other parts though.

 

[RWDY Nori]

90% percent of the matchups on this thread are wrong.sorry but I'm just being honest I don't mean to offend nobodys knowledge of the character.I will be writing my own list soon and explain a little bit about each matchup.rain may not be top tier but he goes 5-5 against almost every character in the game except kenshi,that's roughly a 4-6 against rain just because he is the only character in the game that can punish lighting full screen oh and maybe freddy with the hell claw idk I gotta go to the lab again to check

Can you post your thoughts on the following matchups:

vs Raiden, Reptile, SZ, Cyrax?

 

[Marcus]

Can you post your thoughts on the following matchups:

vs Raiden, Reptile, SZ, Cyrax?

Im no CD Jr. but when going against Reptile, I tend to be on the defensive tip. I bait for dash and punish it with a 40-45% combo. I rarely jump in for the offensive rush but when I get careful with the RH cancels (I think Reptile can dash out of it). Mostly its baiting for dash. Lightning beats Reptiles force balls from far away too.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Kano. What do you do with Rain to beat Kano?

I just fought a dude that used Kano earlier today (we played 3 matches... I lost all 3 btw) and at first I was falling for this trap...

He would throw knife after knife and I would either jump over them right into an upball... or I would teleport and end up still eating an upball. Once I figured out not to jump or teleport against the knives, I quickly found out that you can't hit him with lightning either. So dash blocking it was and all I could do was hope for a blocked or whiffed upball to punish with 43 bubble, 2, RH, 11, lightning, geyser kick... but most of the time he would breaker that with the meter from his knives...

what do you guys do against a turtling Kano?