Tech Raiden Kombo Enders - Ex-Lightning Traps, Ghetto Resets, and Optimal Damage

[Chaosphere]

Midscreen, the ex-lightning combo ender is punishable with a wakeup attack. They can also just sit and duck and the 2nd lightning ball will go right over their head. And... it also depends where at they are on the screen when you do it and also how close to the corner you AND they are. There are multiple variables.

But there's another use too. I use ex-lightning off of blocked f23 sometimes. So f23~ex-lightning on block. This gives them a lot of time to try and react in between the 1st and 2nd lightning ball. If they try and punish you in between them, you'll get hit by their move but now they are either stuck in animation or recovery and the second ball will hit them RIGHT next to you and give you a free combo. This also gives them enough time to cross you up after they block the first lightning ball, but the second ball will come around and hit them allowing you to 1~shocker into a combo.

EDIT: Also, if they try to jump out of f23~ex-lightning on block after the f23, then the first lightning ball will hit them if they let go of block giving you an opportunity for more pressure. Sometimes when they try to jump out f2 will hit them in the air, so f23~ex-lightning gives you an anti air combo. I'd have to play around with what the max damage combo is after that.

 

[4x4lo8o]

Which midscreen lightning set-up are you using that's getting you punished by wake up attacks?
I'm sure some fast advancing wake ups can punish, but I don't think I've ever been punished by a wake up when I've tried ex-lightning midscreen. I've even had people try and been able to block in time. I haven't tested(and don't plan to because I don't use it enough or think it's worth it) but I bet a decent portion of the cast don't have a wake up that can punish. The main adavantage reason I prefer it over the corner set up is that there's enough spacing that they can't just get up and cross you up or start d4'ing and if they do something that you can see is going to get them hit or they're obviously sitting there and going to block the second lightning ball you can dash forward and start a string.
Obviously they can duck, or lie on the ground, or whatever, just like any other time you use ex-lightning. I don't think ex-lightning ever guarantees you anything.

I use ex-lightning after block strings fairly often. F23, 22, 1212, 334. Pretty much anything I'll throw and ex-lightning onto the end of. I know some of them have fairly big holes, but I've yet to be blown up for any of them. I haven't messed around with it enough to know if it's a good strategy, most of the time it's something I throw out on a whim just to see what happens.
After f23 might be the best time to use ex-lightning, now that I think about it more. The move works best when you're standing right next to the opponent and use it(that's sorta what I meant early when I was talking being risky when you use it), because then they have to react to the second lightning ball coming around and think about what you're going to do and there's no risk associated with getting the move out because the cancel advantage of f23 is high enough that's there's only a small gap.

I'm going to experiment with ex-lightning set-ups more. I've never used them particularly seriously before. I'm going to start using them a lot and see what does and doesn't work, particularly with block strings.



I made a quick video with the ghetto reset setups.

You can see really clearly that the 33~vb, b3~teleport set up leaves you with almost no advantage. You can't even cross them up if they go to jump as soon as they get up. It still tends to avoid wake up attacks on the side you teleport on though.
Your f2~teleport set up has a lot more advantage, it easily clears them if they jump. It actually has enough advantage that the computer wakes up in the correct direction and hits you if you cross over. I don't know how that'll work with a person, I'm sure they're not going to have perfect timing like the training bot.

I added a few more possibilities I could think of, just to see how advantage varied and how much damage you could squeeze out. Surprisingly it looks like 33~vb, 33~teleport leaves you with a pretty large advantage and it also gives you the most damage.

 

[Chaosphere]

Which midscreen lightning set-up are you using that's getting you punished by wake up attacks?
I'm sure some fast advancing wake ups can punish, but I don't think I've ever been punished by a wake up when I've tried ex-lightning midscreen. I've even had people try and been able to block in time. I haven't tested(and don't plan to because I don't use it enough or think it's worth it) but I bet a decent portion of the cast don't have a wake up that can punish. The main adavantage reason I prefer it over the corner set up is that there's enough spacing that they can't just get up and cross you up or start d4'ing and if they do something that you can see is going to get them hit or they're obviously sitting there and going to block the second lightning ball you can dash forward and start a string.
Obviously they can duck, or lie on the ground, or whatever, just like any other time you use ex-lightning. I don't think ex-lightning ever guarantees you anything.

I use ex-lightning after block strings fairly often. F23, 22, 1212, 334. Pretty much anything I'll throw and ex-lightning onto the end of. I know some of them have fairly big holes, but I've yet to be blown up for any of them. I haven't messed around with it enough to know if it's a good strategy, most of the time it's something I throw out on a whim just to see what happens.
After f23 might be the best time to use ex-lightning, now that I think about it more. The move works best when you're standing right next to the opponent and use it(that's sorta what I meant early when I was talking being risky when you use it), because then they have to react to the second lightning ball coming around and think about what you're going to do and there's no risk associated with getting the move out because the cancel advantage of f23 is high enough that's there's only a small gap.

I'm going to experiment with ex-lightning set-ups more. I've never used them particularly seriously before. I'm going to start using them a lot and see what does and doesn't work, particularly with block strings.

Put the AI on wakeup attack and do the 33~vb, b3~ex-lightning combos and see how you get blown up by any fast advancing special. The same thing happens to the d1~ex-lightning enders. I found out today that if you end the combo with 2~ex-lightning that it makes you completely safe from any wakeup attacks. The two combos I've found are

b312, dash shocker, 33~vb, dash 2~ex-lightning
334~tele, f2~shocker, f2~vb, dash 2~ex-lightning

Try them out and you will see that you have plenty of time to block. I tried using 33~vb instead of f2~vb in the 334 combo, but I couldn't get it and decided it's not worth the execution if it is even possible. People can still just lay on the ground or duck, but hey... at least we don't have to worry about wakeup attacks anymore haha.

 

[4x4lo8o]

Oh, cool. This thread got stickied. I couldn't figure out where it went

This two ex-lightning stuff is really interesting. You do recover really fast. It's too bad being unsafe wasn't the biggest problem with ex-lightning, but this makes it worth messing around with more.

Cancelling standing 2 into stuff during combos is a good find though. Have you tried cancelling it into teleport? You get have a ton of advantage after you teleport. Enough to cross them up and then jump again before they can do anything. I haven't figured out if it's worth it yet or if there's some good use that I'm missing.

There's so much stuff lately I want to test and mess around with, but I've just been swamped since SCR. I really need to spend some good time in the lab and trying stuff out in casuals