Tech Raiden Kombo Enders - Ex-Lightning Traps, Ghetto Resets, and Optimal Damage

[4x4lo8o]

This isn't new, but the other day someone posted another 'new tech' thread about Raiden's ghetto reset, even though there's already a thread titled "Raiden ghetto rest" on the front page of the Raiden forum and anyone who's ever watched B Wizz play has seen it, so maybe there's an audience for it or someone will benefit. In any case, at the very least all future discussion of ghetto resets can go in here and it'll be easy to find and use for people just discovering it.

Basically the way this works is there's 3 different ways you usually want to end a combo with Raiden: Superman, ex-lightning, or teleport. Superman maximizes your damage, ex-lightning is for wake-up pressure and can reset them or give you a block string, and the teleport gives you pressure or a ghetto reset.

There's lots of different ways to set these up, some do more damage or provide more advantage after the teleport or make the lightning trap harder to get out of or whatever. At the end of this I'll try to make a list of different combos that optimize different parts of the set-ups, but there's one in particular that I use.

After landing a shocker everyone knows you can use 334~superman. That's fine, it's easy and does good damage, but in almost every situation where you land a shocker it's better to use 33~vb, b3. This has 3 advantages
1) it does the same or more damage
2) it builds more meter
3) it sets you up to end with a superman, ex-lightning, or teleport

This doesn't quite provide quite as much advantage after a teleport as some other set-ups and it might not be the most effective way to do lightning traps(I have no idea about this, but B W1zZ uses something with d1 that does less damage and I can't ever pull off. I presume it's more effect somehow, I'm sure he'll explain) but it does have the advantage of being standard across all combos(it doesn't matter how you started the combo or how you want to end, it's always the same) and it does close to optimal damage and meter building(off of b312 you have other options, but in almost every other midscreen combo 33~vb, b3~superman is the most damage you can get, and I've also never seen any teleport set-up that does more damage). It's also fairly easy and gives until the last second to decide how to end - you don't have to commit to some weird, low damage combo to get your ghetto reset, you just cancel into teleport instead of superman at the end.

Here's a list of combo's I know of where this works:
334~teleport, 1/f2~shocker, 33~vb, b3~(superman, ex-lightning, teleport, ex-teleport) 38%, 35%
b312, dash, shocker, 33~vb, b3~(superman, ex-lightning, teleport, ex-teleport) 35%, 32%
*121~shocker, 33~vb, b3~(superman, ex-lightning, teleport, ex-teleport) 30%, 26%
njp, dash shocker, 33~vb, b3~(superman, ex-lightning, teleport, ex-teleport) 31%, 26%
*ex-shocker, 33~vb, b3~(superman, ex-lightning, teleport, ex-teleport) 27%, 23%
*b2f1~ex-shocker, 33~vb, b3~(superman, ex-lightning, teleport, ex-teleport) 32%, 28%
*f23~ex-shocker, 33~vb, b3~(superman, ex-lightning, teleport, ex-teleport) 32%, 28%
aa:
1~shocker, 33~vb, b3~(superman, ex-lightning, teleport, ex-teleport) 29%, 24%
d1, dash 1/f2~shocker, 33~vb, b3~(superman, ex-lightning, teleport, ex-teleport) 28%, 24%

*on these combos you can follow the shocker with 1~vb, 334, superman for 2-3% more damage, so these may not be the best choices to end with setups.

Off the top of my head, the only place where 33~vb won't work is off of an anti-air b312~shocker. The vicinity blast will often whiff in that situation.

Don't use these in the corner. Ex-lightning requires special setups, teleport puts you in front of them, and you can do significantly better damage with other combos.

There is one similar set-up that does more damage off of b312. b312, dash, shocker, 334, slight dash, b3~superman will do 37%(ending with 33~vb, b3~superman does 35%) and can be used for lightning traps and ghetto resets(I think for more damage, I can't remember off the top of my head - damage scaling might make it the same). This build slightly less meter and imo is significantly harder to do, so I personally don't use it, but it's definitely an option. I'm not sure if it works in other places, it might be possible everywhere(if it is I'll edit that in later). Also possibly worth noting, off of b312 you can do dash, 33~superman instead of b3~superman after 33~vb for 36%. In most other combos this either doesn't work or doesn't do more damage.

Here's B W1zZ's original list of ex-lightning setups:
B312 dash shocker, 334 dash B3 en lightning
B312 dash F2 shocker, 33 Vb dash D1 en lightning
334 tele 1 shocker, 33 vb dash (slight delay) D1 en lightning
334 tele, B31 shocker, 33 VB dash D1 en lightning
F4 dash B31 shocker, 33 Vb dash d1 en lightning
anti air B312 shocker, 33VB dash D1 en lightning
anti air 1 Vb dash (3) or (F2) shocker, 33VB dash D1 en lightning
anti air D1 Vb dash F2 shocker, 33VB dash D1 en lightning
air to air punch, dash B31 shocker, 33VB dash D1 en lightning

There are a few corner setups for ex-lightning. They're kinda gimmicky, I don't use them, but ex-lightning itself is sort of a gimmick so try it out and see if it works for you:
334~vb, 4, 334, 33~shocker, f23~ex-lightning 41%
b312, 4, 334, 33~shocker, f23~ex-lightning 39%
334~shocker, 33~vb, 334~ex-lightning 38% (works off the splat)

Here's other ghetto resets I know. All of these provide more advantage than the 33~vb,b3 setup:
b312, dash, f2~shocker, f2~vb, dash, 12~teleport 31%
b312, dash, shocker, 33~vb, dash, 12~teleport 32%
334~teleport, 1~shocker, f2~vb, dash, 12~teleport 34%
334~teleport, 1~shocker, 33~vb, dash, 12~teleport 34%

If you know more setups, post 'em. I'll add them to the op and give you credit if you want. I'll edit in some corner lightning setups and damages later.

I didn't create any of these combos, or anything in this thread

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Here's a list of combo's I know of where this works:
334~teleport, 1/f2~shocker, 33~vb, b3~(superman, ex-lightning, teleport, ex-teleport)

I actually have a video of this setup.... (except I use D3 instead of 1/F2 into shocker b/c I find it easier) ... and I forgot to put the ex lightning in it... but it shows the teleport and ex-teleport. As well as using enhanced shocker and Xray afterwards to blow up Kabal's wakeups. Not sure if it works on other characters or not.

I'll post it if you want.

 

[4x4lo8o]

I actually have a video of this setup.... (except I use D3 instead of 1/F2 into shocker b/c I find it easier) ... and I forgot to put the ex lightning in it... but it shows the teleport and ex-teleport. As well as using enhanced shocker and Xray afterwards to blow up Kabal's wakeups. Not sure if it works on other characters or not.

I'll post it if you want.

I was going to post a video with some of this later. Go ahead and post it in the meantime, though. It'll give anyone who hasn't seen it an example of what I'm talking about, and I'm not sure quite what you mean with the enhanced shocker or Xray. You mean just use them after the teleport and as he's waking up the armor gets him? That should work on a lot of characters. I use ex-shocker to stuff wake ups sometime, although not after this setup

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

I was going to post a video with some of this later. Go ahead and post it in the meantime, though. It'll give anyone who hasn't seen it an example of what I'm talking about, and I'm not sure quite what you mean with the enhanced shocker or Xray. You mean just use them after the teleport and as he's waking up the armor gets him? That should work on a lot of characters. I use ex-shocker to stuff wake ups sometime, although not after this setup

LOL cell phone recordings:

 

[4x4lo8o]

Wow, that stuffs everything he can do on wakeup. Too bad a tech roll or just standing up blocking leaves an ex-shocker so punishable

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Wow, that stuffs everything he can do on wakeup. Too bad a tech roll or just standing up blocking leaves an ex-shocker so punishable

Sometimes it was even regular shocker b/c I didn't get ex to come out. lol

 

[trustinme]

im having a real problem hitting b3 after 33 vb,do i have to dash or not?

 

[4x4lo8o]

im having a real problem hitting b3 after 33 vb,do i have to dash or not?

Don't dash.

Which combo are you having trouble with?
The timing isn't completely consistent, unfortunately. It shouldn't be too hard in any of the combos, but the gravity changes from combo to combo and it affects the timing. After 334~tele you have to hit the b3 pretty quickly, but after b312 it pops them up pretty high and if you hit b3 immediately it will whiff so you actually have to wait for a moment

 

[trustinme]

Don't dash.

Which combo are you having trouble with?
The timing isn't completely consistent, unfortunately. It shouldn't be too hard in any of the combos, but the gravity changes from combo to combo and it affects the timing. After 334~tele you have to hit the b3 pretty quickly, but after b312 it pops them up pretty high and if you hit b3 immediately it will whiff so you actually have to wait for a moment

ive been trying to hit 334 tele b31 shocker but i cant do that combo for shit,the b3 just doesnt come out,think i'll stick to d3 shocker after the tele.ok thanks for the advice on 33vb b3,it makes sense now.man trying to learn raiden is like a fucking science man.

 

[SirRaven]

You're closer than I am...I can't for the life of me get a teleport to consistently happen after the 334 combo. I've tried that idea since the game came out. I've also tried some combos involving d1 -> shocker or d3 -> shocker and neither of those happen either. Not sure what's up w/ my timing on those.

I gotta practice these 334 set ups because I like having 30+% combos on any combo start except f24. When it comes to starting w/ b312, I prefer to just dash in, shocker, and b312 superman again. That iirc does 35% and I'm happy with that. I don't think 3% is worth the chance at dropping a finicky combo halfway through.

 

[4x4lo8o]

You're closer than I am...I can't for the life of me get a teleport to consistently happen after the 334 combo. I've tried that idea since the game came out. I've also tried some combos involving d1 -> shocker or d3 -> shocker and neither of those happen either. Not sure what's up w/ my timing on those.

I gotta practice these 334 set ups because I like having 30+% combos on any combo start except f24. When it comes to starting w/ b312, I prefer to just dash in, shocker, and b312 superman again. That iirc does 35% and I'm happy with that. I don't think 3% is worth the chance at dropping a finicky combo halfway through.

You can't get the teleport to come out? or you're having trouble with something after the teleport?
Getting the teleport should be easy. You just dial in down up as fast you can after 334. There shouldn't be much specific timing involved. It's even hit confirmable, although in most cases you don't need. Tbh, you're probably messing up the du input and it's probably a pad issue. It's either that or you're not hitting it fast enough. Make sure you're cancelling 334 into teleport. Keep practicing, you'll probably figure out what you're doing wrong soon after that it'll just click and be automatic.

Landing the hit into shocker after the teleport is hard. Don't be worried if you can't get that at first. I probably spent months getting that down. For a long time I thought it must have been something that got patched out of the game because it seemed impossible. You can do it with standing 1 or f2, whichever is easier for you. I use standing 1 because I think it's easier and it does slightly more damage, but I know a lot of people think f2 is easier and more consistent. You can also use d3, which is probably the easiest way to because it not only has the biggest timing window but you can also hold down and see your character crouching so you don't have to guess when the teleports recovery frames are over and so you don't press it too soon and get nothing. Don't use d1 though, the shocker will whiff. I think if you time d3 wrong the shocker can whiff, but it should hit most of the time. Shocker will always whiff after d1 unless you're in a corner or something.


b312, dash shocker, b312~superman is fine, it does 33% without a jip. There's nothing wrong with the damage on that. It sounds like you're at a point where you're still just getting a basic feel for the character, so just keep doing what works for now. Later on it'll be worth learning combos with set-ups and squeezing out every last bit of meter and damage you can get, but for right now you're absolutely right that you're better off doing what you can do consistently. Fundamentals come before combos. Burning yourself out trying to learn some complicated combo is not the best way to improve your game.
Usually when I pick up a new character I find a couple BnB's that I can do easily and consistently and just use those and play the character. Eventually I hit a point where's it's like 'ok, this combo isn't cutting it' or 'I need a better punish for that' and I feel like that's the point to put the most time and energy into learning harder combos

 

[SirRaven]

Thanks for the response, that's a lot of help. I mained Raiden when the game first came out then after a month or so of playing, I sold the game...bad move. I quickly realized that was premature. I ended up getting it recently again on the Vita which ignited the fire to me rebuying it on PS3 as well. So I've been gearing back up to better levels.

Those are really good tips, I especially lack setups in my current game. I tend to play a whiff punish, escape, wait for next opportunity, kind of game. The part I struggle with on the teleport after a combo is actually getting the teleport to happen so quickly. I've been doing it as quickly as I could manage but it still seems to come out late.

Watching some videos, I see raiden teleport immediately after the 4 connects in 334...his leg animation doesn't even reach the floor before teleporting. Whenever I try that, he seems to wait until animation finishes, then teleports, and by that point, the opponent is already out of range for shocker juggle. I'll keep practicing. Thanks again.

 

[4x4lo8o]

Thanks for the response, that's a lot of help. I mained Raiden when the game first came out then after a month or so of playing, I sold the game...bad move. I quickly realized that was premature. I ended up getting it recently again on the Vita which ignited the fire to me rebuying it on PS3 as well. So I've been gearing back up to better levels.

Those are really good tips, I especially lack setups in my current game. I tend to play a whiff punish, escape, wait for next opportunity, kind of game. The part I struggle with on the teleport after a combo is actually getting the teleport to happen so quickly. I've been doing it as quickly as I could manage but it still seems to come out late.

Watching some videos, I see raiden teleport immediately after the 4 connects in 334...his leg animation doesn't even reach the floor before teleporting. Whenever I try that, he seems to wait until animation finishes, then teleports, and by that point, the opponent is already out of range for shocker juggle. I'll keep practicing. Thanks again.

Yeah, your problem is that you're not cancelling into teleport. You're doing 334, teleport when what you want is 334~teleport. Instead of finishing your string and then teleporting you need to cancel the recovery at the end of the string into the special.
You have to hit du immediately after 334. Input it like it's another button in the string. Just dial it in as quickly as you can, don't try to time it so that what you're pressing matches what's happening on the screen.
After 334~teleport you have almost a full second of waiting for the animations to catch up to what you just pressed before you continue with the rest of the combo

 

[SirRaven]

Yeah, your problem is that you're not cancelling into teleport. You're doing 334, teleport when what you want is 334~teleport. Instead of finishing your string and then teleporting you need to cancel the recovery at the end of the string into the special.
You have to hit du immediately after 334. Input it like it's another button in the string. Just dial it in as quickly as you can, don't try to time it so that what you're pressing matches what's happening on the screen.
After 334~teleport you have almost a full second of waiting for the animations to catch up to what you just pressed before you continue with the rest of the combo

Thanks for the great advice. I practiced some of what you mentioned and I got it working...offline of course. Trying to pull off any of these extremely timed teleport -> shocker combos seems near impossible online with random lag. I did find that f2->shocker was my most successful version. On the d1 or d3 -> shocker, correct me if I'm wrong but it seemed that I was going wrong because I couldn't roll from d to f after the punch into shocker. The only times it would work is if I repeated the down press for shocker. That made my thumb unhappy so I stuck with f2, lol.

Through your tips I devised an extremely easy 40% corner string that works as a decent set-up. I always used to resort to my same 37% (iirc) corner combo...now I can mix things up a bit.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

334~vb, 4, 334, 33~shocker, f23~ex-lightning 41%

Thank you!

I had been looking for a way to setup ex lightning in the corner. The other day I was trying new corner combos and got up to the 33 shocker in that quoted combo. Then just did 1212 superman. So this is something I can use!

How about after a splat in the corner... what do you guys generally do?

 

[Chaosphere]

Thank you!

I had been looking for a way to setup ex lightning in the corner. The other day I was trying new corner combos and got up to the 33 shocker in that quoted combo. Then just did 1212 superman. So this is something I can use!

How about after a splat in the corner... what do you guys generally do?

If I splat with 334 then I link ex-lightning. Or if I don't link ex-lightning then one option I go for is d3 to stand them up or trying to time a f4 to hit them as they are coming out of the splat.

 

[Peckapowa]

these setups are beyond gimmicky

 

[SirRaven]

I've been liking f4 on their recovery...especially after spending a lot of the game making them respect low pokes. Having them in the corner and making them splat then timing a f4 to pop them back up is a lot of fun if they are expecting you to low poke them into a new BnB combo.

I've also been liking some old school techniques that I haven't been seeing much of lately. For example, having b312 or 334 fully blocked and rather than insta-teleport out of it, going straight into shocker / ex shocker. Sure it sets you up for a decent amount of whiff punishment if they block or just duck low but I'm always surprised how conditioned people are to releasing block at the end of the string to counter attack only to end up in a shocker-starter half combo.

I've been practicing mostly on my Vita and feel like a lot of improvement is happening. Getting fairly successful, even online, at nailing the 334-tele-f2-shocker combo we discussed earlier. For safety sake in the corner, I was going with 334-vb-334-shocker-334 which makes them splat for an even 40%. I'm now beginning to practice and explore the 334-vb-4-334-33-shock-f4,3-superman. With a jip, it does like 46%, i think...with enhanced shocker / vb does that combo reach 50%?

 

[4x4lo8o]

I've been liking f4 on their recovery...especially after spending a lot of the game making them respect low pokes. Having them in the corner and making them splat then timing a f4 to pop them back up is a lot of fun if they are expecting you to low poke them into a new BnB combo.

I've also been liking some old school techniques that I haven't been seeing much of lately. For example, having b312 or 334 fully blocked and rather than insta-teleport out of it, going straight into shocker / ex shocker. Sure it sets you up for a decent amount of whiff punishment if they block or just duck low but I'm always surprised how conditioned people are to releasing block at the end of the string to counter attack only to end up in a shocker-starter half combo.

I've been practicing mostly on my Vita and feel like a lot of improvement is happening. Getting fairly successful, even online, at nailing the 334-tele-f2-shocker combo we discussed earlier. For safety sake in the corner, I was going with 334-vb-334-shocker-334 which makes them splat for an even 40%. I'm now beginning to practice and explore the 334-vb-4-334-33-shock-f4,3-superman. With a jip, it does like 46%, i think...with enhanced shocker / vb does that combo reach 50%?

I haven't used f4 on wake up much. I'm sort of surprised you're having success with it, I'd think it's slow enough to wake up on reaction. I feel like they could probably even cross you up out of the corner and land a full jip corner combo on you if they're ready it. Go for it if it's working, I guess, but if I've already got them in the corner I usually feel like I've got enough advantage that I don't need to pull anything gimmicky. Anything you touch them with is going to convert into big damage and their footsie game is limited with their back in the corner, so I usually just focus on blowing them up as they try to leave the corner. I rely a lot on f24 then aa'ing them as they try to jump out or trying to get them to whiff pokes and using b312.

I use b312~shocker on block sometimes. It's good, but it's one of those tactics that gets significantly less effective as you move offline and play against good players. It tends to not work at all on people who play patiently and most good players won't fall for it more than once. If they are respecting it it does give you a bit more of a chance to continue your pressure or make space or whatever. Mostly it's just a situational thing you only want to do after watching what your opponent does after a block b312. If they're doing the same thing every time that's usually the best time to use it. Once in awhile I notice people crossing me up every time I complete the string, that's usually when I throw a shocker on the end. Anytime someone's antsy or disrespectful it can work though. The other thing is that it jails, so even they go to neutral crouch, like if they're going to poke or if they were expecting a vicinity blast(which I don't recommend using after this string. I do it sometimes and I always regret it), it'll still catch them since they should have been standing for the previous overhead.

Ex-shocker doesn't add any damage, it just has armor and makes the move lunge forward. Ex-vicinity blast does more damage, I think 2% more, but I don't recommend using it. The extra damage is almost never worth the meter and it changes the gravity and makes the combo harder

 

[SirRaven]

Good info, man. Appreciate the heads up on the ex shocker /vb. I've only used ex shocker for the armor so I just assumed it added more damage too. As for the f4 on wake up and string ending shocker, you're right...I should start breaking that habit because I could only attribute their success to my being a predominantly online player. I'll keeping mixing it up but I feel like due to playing online so much, I've developed the habit of throwing it out there way too often.

Online can be so counterproductive in practicing...it's no wonder that 99% of the Raiden's I come across online are all spaming b312 and random supermans. They must have had success with that somewhere...

Thanks for keeping Raiden alive and kickin brotha

 

[Roko1985]

This isn't new, but the other day someone posted another 'new tech' thread about Raiden's ghetto reset, even though there's already a thread titled "Raiden ghetto rest" on the front page of the Raiden forum and anyone who's ever watched B Wizz play has seen it, so maybe there's an audience for it or someone will benefit. In any case, at the very least all future discussion of ghetto resets can go in here and it'll be easy to find and use for people just discovering it.

Basically the way this works is there's 3 different ways you usually want to end a combo with Raiden: Superman, ex-lightning, or teleport. Superman maximizes your damage, ex-lightning is for wake-up pressure and can reset them or give you a block string, and the teleport gives you pressure or a ghetto reset.

There's lots of different ways to set these up, some do more damage or provide more advantage after the teleport or make the lightning trap harder to get out of or whatever. At the end of this I'll try to make a list of different combos that optimize different parts of the set-ups, but there's one in particular that I use.

After landing a shocker everyone knows you can use 334~superman. That's fine, it's easy and does good damage, but in almost every situation where you land a shocker it's better to use 33~vb, b3. This has 3 advantages
1) it does the same or more damage
2) it builds more meter
3) it sets you up to end with a superman, ex-lightning, or teleport

This doesn't quite provide quite as much advantage after a teleport as some other set-ups and it might not be the most effective way to do lightning traps(I have no idea about this, but B W1zZ uses something with d1 that does less damage and I can't ever pull off. I presume it's more effect somehow, I'm sure he'll explain) but it does have the advantage of being standard across all combos(it doesn't matter how you started the combo or how you want to end, it's always the same) and it does close to optimal damage and meter building(off of b312 you have other options, but in almost every other midscreen combo 33~vb, b3~superman is the most damage you can get, and I've also never seen any teleport set-up that does more damage). It's also fairly easy and gives until the last second to decide how to end - you don't have to commit to some weird, low damage combo to get your ghetto reset, you just cancel into teleport instead of superman at the end.

Here's a list of combo's I know of where this works:
334~teleport, 1/f2~shocker, 33~vb, b3~(superman, ex-lightning, teleport, ex-teleport) 38%, 35%
b312, dash, shocker, 33~vb, b3~(superman, ex-lightning, teleport, ex-teleport) 35%, 32%
*121~shocker, 33~vb, b3~(superman, ex-lightning, teleport, ex-teleport) 30%, 26%
njp, dash shocker, 33~vb, b3~(superman, ex-lightning, teleport, ex-teleport) 31%, 26%
*ex-shocker, 33~vb, b3~(superman, ex-lightning, teleport, ex-teleport) 27%, 23%
*b2f1~ex-shocker, 33~vb, b3~(superman, ex-lightning, teleport, ex-teleport) 32%, 28%
*f23~ex-shocker, 33~vb, b3~(superman, ex-lightning, teleport, ex-teleport) 32%, 28%
aa:
1~shocker, 33~vb, b3~(superman, ex-lightning, teleport, ex-teleport) 29%, 24%
d1, dash 1/f2~shocker, 33~vb, b3~(superman, ex-lightning, teleport, ex-teleport) 28%, 24%

*on these combos you can follow the shocker with 1~vb, 334, superman for 2-3% more damage, so these may not be the best choices to end with setups.

Off the top of my head, the only place where 33~vb won't work is off of an anti-air b312~shocker. The vicinity blast will often whiff in that situation.

Don't use these in the corner. Ex-lightning requires special setups, teleport puts you in front of them, and you can do significantly better damage with other combos.

There is one similar set-up that does more damage off of b312. b312, dash, shocker, 334, slight dash, b3~superman will do 37%(ending with 33~vb, b3~superman does 35%) and can be used for lightning traps and ghetto resets(I think for more damage, I can't remember off the top of my head - damage scaling might make it the same). This build slightly less meter and imo is significantly harder to do, so I personally don't use it, but it's definitely an option. I'm not sure if it works in other places, it might be possible everywhere(if it is I'll edit that in later). Also possibly worth noting, off of b312 you can do dash, 33~superman instead of b3~superman after 33~vb for 36%. In most other combos this either doesn't work or doesn't do more damage.

Here's B W1zZ's original list of ex-lightning setups:
B312 dash shocker, 334 dash B3 en lightning
B312 dash F2 shocker, 33 Vb dash D1 en lightning
334 tele 1 shocker, 33 vb dash (slight delay) D1 en lightning
334 tele, B31 shocker, 33 VB dash D1 en lightning
F4 dash B31 shocker, 33 Vb dash d1 en lightning
anti air B312 shocker, 33VB dash D1 en lightning
anti air 1 Vb dash (3) or (F2) shocker, 33VB dash D1 en lightning
anti air D1 Vb dash F2 shocker, 33VB dash D1 en lightning
air to air punch, dash B31 shocker, 33VB dash D1 en lightning

There are a few corner setups for ex-lightning. They're kinda gimmicky, I don't use them, but ex-lightning itself is sort of a gimmick so try it out and see if it works for you:
334~vb, 4, 334, 33~shocker, f23~ex-lightning 41%
b312, 4, 334, 33~shocker, f23~ex-lightning 39%
334~shocker, 33~vb, 334~ex-lightning 38% (works off the splat)

Here's other ghetto resets I know. All of these provide more advantage than the 33~vb,b3 setup:
b312, dash, f2~shocker, f2~vb, dash, 12~teleport 31%
b312, dash, shocker, 33~vb, dash, 12~teleport 32%
334~teleport, 1~shocker, f2~vb, dash, 12~teleport 34%
334~teleport, 1~shocker, 33~vb, dash, 12~teleport 34%

If you know more setups, post 'em. I'll add them to the op and give you credit if you want. I'll edit in some corner lightning setups and damages later.

I didn't create any of these combos, or anything in this thread

I don't know if is just me, but i am finding those setups a bit risky sometimes. I think the only good Ex lightning traps are in the corner after splat( you can block the wake up and bite it).
Let say:
Corner:
334 blast, 1 blast, 1 blast, 334(splat) .....Ex lightning
b312, 334, f2 shocker, 334(splat).....Ex lightning
f24, d1 shocker, 1 blast , 334(splat)....Ex lightning
f4 starter..............don't remember , but you can finish the combo with 334(splat)
f23 Ex shocker starter.........don't remember, but you can finish the combo with 334(splat)
f23 Ex blast starter...........don't remember, but you can finish the combo with 334(splat)

You are giving away maximum 9 % damage. Some of the setups do the same damage as the BnB.

 

[Chaosphere]

Instead of ending with b3~tele or b3~ex-lightning, I usually try to end my combos with f2~tele or f2~ex-lightning. The reason for this? The cancel advantage on hit for b3 is +17 but the cancel advantage on hit for f2 is +27. This basically gives you 10 more frames of advantage for when you knock them down.

My typical teleport ending combo would be something like b312, dash shocker, f2~vb, dash f2~tele then I crossover. This works so much for me. They don't even have a chance to jump out if you hit with the f2 high enough in the air. I've tested this by having a friend hold up+forward after being knocked down and when I crossover with a jip, the jip hits them standing and you can continue into a combo, whereas when I tried it with b3~tele, they were able to jump out and the jip would hit them in the air.

This works for me ALL the time. If they try to jump out, it's a full combo for you. Or if they try to do a wakeup attack, this will reverse their directions and you will hit them with a full combo. There is a way out though. They can do a wakeup attack in the opposite direction and if they time it correctly, they will get the invincibility of the wakeup attack. But as far as I can tell, this is the only way out and requires some level of execution higher than just mashing a wakeup attack.

As far as f2~ex-lightning combo enders, I haven't tested it out enough but you still get the extra +10 frames while they are on the ground. Obviously they can just crouch and duck the projectiles, and depending on the special move... they can wakeup and use the invincibility to blow through said projectiles but some wakeups will get hit by the projectiles and put them into hit stun. It just depends on what they do. the back lightning ball seems to reach them just as they have the opportunity to wakeup so this at least puts them in a position where they have to time their wakeup better.

EDIT: After looking at the frame data, it appears the cancel advantage on hit for 12 is +29. It's possible that this might give even a couple more frames of knockdown advantage, depending on how high in the air the 2 hits. I'll play around with it and report back.

 

[4x4lo8o]

Chaosphere
I don't think using cancel advantage is a valid way to determine what advantage you're at during a juggle. I think cancel advantage take into account frames of hit stun or block stun or whatever, and those exist while you're juggling. All that matters is when they hit the ground, so it has more to do with how high you hit them in the juggle, how high the gravity is, and maybe the speed of your move.

I do think everything else you said is correct, though. I had noticed basically the same thing as I was making this thread. If you end some combos in b3-tele you have barely any advantage - sometime so little that you can't even cross them up if they jump straight upward. I was going to mess with it some more and make some videos showing the differences in advantage and overhaul the thread, but I never got around to it. I'm glad you brought this up, there's definitely more exploring to do.

As far as getting out, tech rolling should work. So should just lying on the ground. That usually what I do when someone tries to ghetto reset me.

As far as ex-lightning, are you sure the extra frames of advantage are a good thing? It changes how soon the second lightning ball comes around(compared to when they hit the ground), and I'm not sure if you want it coming sooner or later. If it comes faster they have less time to react to it, and maybe are more likely to do something stupid, but if it comes later that may mean more time where they're just sitting there neutral crouching that you can use to set something up. It may be something you want to mix up. I know some of B Wizz's ex-lightning combos were sort of weird. They had stuff like d1's at the end that didn't add more damage, and I'm pretty sure it was just because he thought it made the lightning harder to react to. I don't know what what his thought process was though.


I'm going to explore this stuff more later this week, I definitely think you're right that b3~tele is not the optimal ender for a ghetto reset.

I don't know if is just me, but i am finding those setups a bit risky sometimes. I think the only good Ex lightning traps are in the corner after splat( you can block the wake up and bite it).
Let say:
Corner:
334 blast, 1 blast, 1 blast, 334(splat) .....Ex lightning
b312, 334, f2 shocker, 334(splat).....Ex lightning
f24, d1 shocker, 1 blast , 334(splat)....Ex lightning
f4 starter..............don't remember , but you can finish the combo with 334(splat)
f23 Ex shocker starter.........don't remember, but you can finish the combo with 334(splat)
f23 Ex blast starter...........don't remember, but you can finish the combo with 334(splat)

You are giving away maximum 9 % damage. Some of the setups do the same damage as the BnB.

In general I don't like ex-lightning enders in the corner, I only use them once in a blue moon. Usually if I do feel like using ex-lightning while they're cornered I'll just use it after the superman ender as they're on the ground. They have to deal with both lightning balls and you get your full combo damage and characters without fast advancing specials can't wake up out of it.

 

[Chaosphere]

Chaosphere
I don't think using cancel advantage is a valid way to determine what advantage you're at during a juggle. I think cancel advantage take into account frames of hit stun or block stun or whatever, and those exist while you're juggling. All that matters is when they hit the ground, so it has more to do with how high you hit them in the juggle, how high the gravity is, and maybe the speed of your move.

I do think everything else you said is correct, though. I had noticed basically the same thing as I was making this thread. If you end some combos in b3-tele you have barely any advantage - sometime so little that you can't even cross them up if they jump straight upward. I was going to mess with it some more and make some videos showing the differences in advantage and overhaul the thread, but I never got around to it. I'm glad you brought this up, there's definitely more exploring to do.

As far as getting out, tech rolling should work. So should just lying on the ground. That usually what I do when someone tries to ghetto reset me.

As far as ex-lightning, are you sure the extra frames of advantage are a good thing? It changes how soon the second lightning ball comes around(compared to when they hit the ground), and I'm not sure if you want it coming sooner or later. If it comes faster they have less time to react to it, and maybe are more likely to do something stupid, but if it comes later that may mean more time where they're just sitting there neutral crouching that you can use to set something up. It may be something you want to mix up. I know some of B Wizz's ex-lightning combos were sort of weird. They had stuff like d1's at the end that didn't add more damage, and I'm pretty sure it was just because he thought it made the lightning harder to react to. I don't know what what his thought process was though.

I'm going to explore this stuff more later this week, I definitely think you're right that b3~tele is not the optimal ender for a ghetto reset.

In general I don't like ex-lightning enders in the corner, I only use them once in a blue moon. Usually if I do feel like using ex-lightning while they're cornered I'll just use it after the superman ender as they're on the ground. They have to deal with both lightning balls and you get your full combo damage and characters without fast advancing specials can't wake up out of it.

I think cancel advantage on hit DOES matter here just because tele is a move that we base advantage off of due to it's duration and not execution. I'll have to spend more time thinking about it, but I think we're at least on the right track here.

As far as ex-lightning combo enders... I usually only use it off of splat setups in the corner. SOMETIMES I'll throw out a midscreen ex-lightning combo ender just to see how they respond to it... but I usually regret it. It pays off every now and then. There's no way to set this up and it's just a total guess as to whether or not they know/react accordingly.

 

[4x4lo8o]

I think cancel advantage on hit DOES matter here just because tele is a move that we base advantage off of due to it's duration and not execution. I'll have to spend more time thinking about it, but I think we're at least on the right track here.

As far as ex-lightning combo enders... I usually only use it off of splat setups in the corner. SOMETIMES I'll throw out a midscreen ex-lightning combo ender just to see how they respond to it... but I usually regret it. It pays off every now and then. There's no way to set this up and it's just a total guess as to whether or not they know/react accordingly.

I don't know exactly how cancelling works - if there's recovery frames between execution and starting the special, if those recovery frames vary per move, etc. If there's no recovery frames or they're exactly the same for every moves then cancel advantage is probably a decent indicator, but even then I don't know if all moves have the same effect during a juggle in regards to how long they suspend the person in the air and how they affect gravity and things like that. There's too many variables that I don't know anything about when one person is in the air.

I almost never use ex-lightning off of set-ups, now that I think about it more. I like having the option, but when I do end a combo with a set up I'm almost always going for the ghetto reset. I've never been punished for a lightning set-up midscreen, I have been for the corner ones though. When I do use them it's usually just for the hell of it to see what happens. B W1zZ uses them all the time though. Maybe we're doing it wrong
I feel like to get the best results out of ex-lightning you have to take risks. I use it point blank when they can potentially punish me if they react right. Usually they don't though, and it almost always results in at least a block string or throw and I probably get full combos more often than I get punished.