Question: What is your mindset, as a player, and how importante is this?

[BRAZILIAN SHEEP]

Hi guys.

I'm asking this because I want to know better what is the mindset of people playing this game, and fighting games in general.
What I'm refering as "mindset", is that", what is your approach towards the game when you win, when you lose, when you practice, and why you play the game. Do you really think that the best wins ever, or there are some variations?

I saw the 2 matches yesterday (SF X NINJAKILLA) when NJ won the first one and the second one when SF won, and I have my thoughts about that and my impressions, and I want to know if there are people who thinks the same.

I honestly think that NJ played better than SF yesterday. The reactions, spacing, reads, the flawless blocks....the guy is a prodigy. BUT, why SF won? Do you guys think that he played better than NJ?
My interpretation of that match is that, SF was using a lot of the BS in the game, and even using FB and getting better reactions, NJ could not do a shit, because Joker can span almost anything form close and mid range distance and if he gest the hit that is ok (350 damage or more), but if the opponent blocks it, he is safe with pushback. That was supposed to be neutral and spacing but HS, the risk / reward there was way tilted to joker....and even playing better, NK couldnt do a shit.

I think SF outsmarts people exploring the game better and using all the bullhit on his favor. He is one of the best players of all time.....but was weird yesterday.

And an observation: Was hilarious seeing the upgraded jaqui doing bullshit a lot and the commentators pretending that that was normal....not even one commentary llike "man this is bullshit", ahah.

My mindset when I play the game is: I try to do my best to be better and have fun. Be better to me is: Have good reactions, good reads and spacing.
When I feel like the risk reward is not balanced or the game mechanics are unbalanced, I lose interest in winning, because winning actually is not evaluating too much.

 

[CharlieSt.Loud]

I think Sonic used more or less fraudulent tactics in MKX, but that was such as oppressive game with so many ways to actually neutralize your opponent, so with conditioning Sonic can do what he wants. Just by playing Sonic, people are conditioned sometimes. In MK11 there is no counter armor so things that could be interrupted in MKX can’t be in this game. That’s why Sonic could cancel anything and be safe and reset the neutral. Then his neutral is godlike. I say he outplayed NJ by a hair

 

[Zviko]

Meter management is a skill too and sometimes I feel like NK is trying to show off with all these flawless blocks but really most of the time he's just wasting meter. Especially when he doesn't get the best follow up and he even completely dropped the combo once or twice.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

I highly disagree with this. Ninja is too good to just be hit with random stuff, and he blocked a lot of Sonic’s offense in the neutral. The tradeoff was this: Joker is safe and has a great spacing game; Liu Kang has better offense and a lot more variety of staggers, pressure, and zoning. So it was up to Sonic to be better making the big reads, and he was.

Throughout the entire second set, Sonic was consistently in NK’s head, throwing him when he expected the mid, AA’ing him when he attempted a crossover jump, d1’ing him when he attempted to pressure or stagger with 12 or b1, and harassing NK from midscreen distance every time Sonic got the life lead.

He put on an absolute masterclass in high level Mortal Kombat play. There’s a lot to learn from if you actually know what to look at, and saying “he just won because BS” is one of the scrubbiest mentalities I’ve seen.

Sonic could easily play absolute top tier (Cage/Liu Kang/Jacqui) like NK does, and he beat him at ECT last time he did this. But he finds it more interesting to try to make unconventional characters work, and he’s one of the only people with the talent to do so. This take is ridiculous.

 

[Juggs]

Everyone has access to play any character they want. If you lose because your character isn’t good enough it’s your own fault. If you lose because you aren’t good at the matchup it’s your own fault.

SF played out of their mind to win the GF. NK played out of his mind too. Both are the two best MK11 players in the world. SF just made a few more better decisions in the end.

 

[Infamous718]

 

[Hellbringer]

If u really wanna get better u gotta drop this "he spammed more BS" attitude.

 

[BRAZILIAN SHEEP]

I highly disagree with this. Ninja is too good to just be hit with random stuff, and he blocked a lot of Sonic’s offense in the neutral. The tradeoff was this: Joker is safe and has a great spacing game; Liu Kang has better offense and a lot more variety of staggers, pressure, and zoning. So it was up to Sonic to be better making the big reads, and he was.

Throughout the entire second set, Sonic was consistently in NK’s head, throwing him when he expected the mid, AA’ing him when he attempted a crossover jump, d1’ing him when he attempted to pressure or stagger with 12 or b1, and harassing NK from midscreen distance every time Sonic got the life lead.

He put on an absolute masterclass in high level Mortal Kombat play. There’s a lot to learn from if you actually know what to look at, and saying “he just won because BS” is one of the scrubbiest mentalities I’ve seen.

Sonic could easily play absolute top tier (Cage/Liu Kang/Jacqui) like NK does, and he beat him at ECT last time he did this. But he finds it more interesting to try to make unconventional characters work, and he’s one of the only people with the talent to do so. This take is ridiculous.

Man you really need to interpret better what people say. I did not say that SF is random, or the the game is random (by now). I just said my interpratation of the match, not assuming that Im not God that knows everything I asked a question and I'm willing to listen and undestand different points of view.

 

[CharlieSt.Loud]

Meter management is a skill too and sometimes I feel like NK is trying to show off with all these flawless blocks but really most of the time he's just wasting meter. Especially when he doesn't get the best follow up and he even completely dropped the combo once or twice.

Agreed about the meter management. I think NJ wants to delete health bars like he did in MKX. He always looks for the flawless block to turn his defense into instant offense but at the cost of 1 offensive and defensive bar, I think it’s too expensive to use all the time.

 

[Savage8-8]

SF out-spaced, out-read, and just out-played NJ in grand finals. Even if you make a good argument for general balance changes, the better player won last night.

 

[xKMMx]

OP is way off. Essentially what you're saying is that Ninja Killa and Sonic are both insanely good and Sonic was only able to win because Joker is broken.
Plainly stated these guys are both insanely good at fighting games but someone has to win. And on any given day either of those guys could take a set of the other. THe guy that plays better on that given day is always going to win. In this situation however a win comes about its going to be based off the skill of the player.

 

[BRAZILIAN SHEEP]

OP is way off. Essentially what you're saying is that Ninja Killa and Sonic are both insanely good and Sonic was only able to win because Joker is broken.
Plainly stated these guys are both insanely good at fighting games but someone has to win. And on any given day either of those guys could take a set of the other. THe guy that plays better on that given day is always going to win. In this situation however a win comes about its going to be based off the skill of the player.

"So youre saying"...no...i did not say that.
What I really said and I think, is that talent is not the only factor who interferes in a battle like that to win.
What I saw (and I could be wrong about that) is, a better player being counter acted by fucked up hitboxes at mid / far range, and the other player who had godlike reactions because the zoning (aka spam here in mk) covered almost everything, except flawless blocking. NJ cound jump because the mid is so broken that he could do neutral jump. JUmping at sf is risky....zoning there is not going to do too much.
Listem guys, this is the first time I saw ninja killa waliking backwards. He is very agressive.....and I think because....there was almost nothing to do there.
He tried to do anti air once and he got punish for that too....I mean....

SF is amazing.

 

[Slymind]

SF played out of his mind, same for NK, It could've gone either way.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Listem guys, this is the first time I saw ninja killa waliking backwards. He is very agressive.....and I think because....there was almost nothing to do there.

He was taking his time because just being aggressive against Sonic Fox gets you nowhere. He will poke you out of advancing, and out of staggers, or just simply interrupt the next thing you attempt with a full string into combo into a setup. He's both patient and extremely fast, and you can't play against that unless you're really taking time to think about everything you do.

Sonic also punishes mistakes really hard. You could clearly see the difference between players like him/Dragon, and guys in the lower parts of the bracket who would just punish stuff with d2 or throw. Sonic is waiting for you to make tiny mistakes and he will blow you up big time.

 

[xKMMx]

"So youre saying"...no...i did not say that.
What I really said and I think, is that talent is not the only factor who interferes in a battle like that to win.
What I saw (and I could be wrong about that) is, a better player being counter acted by fucked up hitboxes at mid / far range, and the other player who had godlike reactions because the zoning (aka spam here in mk) covered almost everything, except flawless blocking. NJ cound jump because the mid is so broken that he could do neutral jump. JUmping at sf is risky....zoning there is not going to do too much.
Listem guys, this is the first time I saw ninja killa waliking backwards. He is very agressive.....and I think because....there was almost nothing to do there.
He tried to do anti air once and he got punish for that too....I mean....

SF is amazing.

I don't disagree with SF is amazing.

Broken hitboxes winning a high-level Grand final set against a player like Ninja Killa? Don't insult the man. Believe me if the hitboxes were that jank then Ninja Killa would have had a plan to get around that because there is nothing in the game these guys don't know.

Nk is an amazing talent. He just lost a set to a guy who played better in that particular set.

Again thought the entire foundation of your argument comes down to you saying Jokers tools are broken and Sf only won becuase he exploited them which is false. The character is very strong but I not quite the biggest factor in why SF won.

 

[Hebrew Negro]

I guarantee you, Sonic is NEVER random. They might seem like it at times, but there's probably a whole other level of knowledge that we don't know about.

Also, you can't teach reactions. They're naturally gifted.

 

[BRAZILIAN SHEEP]

It is very difficult to use this forum. I think I was clear that Im not trying to convince anyone here, and I could be wrong, but there are some dudes that really feel ofended by almost anything that defies their mindset.

Jesus people....Im just saying what I saw. I could be wrong...again....but I think I have arguments.

Both are amazing, but I think sonic outplays people because he understands better the training mode and the games mechanics.
Regardng reactions and reads....dude NK killed it yesterday.

How many times I saw that spam shit of a string and FB cancel + 50/50 into whatever...I mean....the guy press things at mid range and garantees a crushing blow 50/50 just by that....I dont know man.

 

[Darth Mao]

It is very difficult to use this forum. I think I was clear that Im not trying to convince anyone here, and I could be wrong, but there are some dudes that really feel ofended by almost anything that defies their mindset.

Jesus people....Im just saying what I saw. I could be wrong...again....but I think I have arguments.

Both are amazing, but I think sonic outplays people because he understands better the training mode and the games mechanics.
Regardng reactions and reads....dude NK killed it yesterday.

How many times I saw that spam shit of a string and FB cancel + 50/50 into whatever...I mean....the guy press things at mid range and garantees a crushing blow 50/50 just by that....I dont know man.

Very...

 

[CrimsonShadow]

It is very difficult to use this forum. I think I was clear that Im not trying to convince anyone here, and I could be wrong, but there are some dudes that really feel ofended by almost anything that defies their mindset.

Jesus people....Im just saying what I saw. I could be wrong...again....but I think I have arguments.

Both are amazing, but I think sonic outplays people because he understands better the training mode and the games mechanics.
Regardng reactions and reads....dude NK killed it yesterday.

How many times I saw that spam shit of a string and FB cancel + 50/50 into whatever...I mean....the guy press things at mid range and garantees a crushing blow 50/50 just by that....I dont know man.

That’s not ‘spam’, it’s fighting games.

And as far as 50/50s.. Sonic barely used the overhead, because it’s unsafe. Most of the FB cancels were into throws, which NK teched, or mid blockstring pressure. And that cancel is maybe twice a match maximum.

Meanwhile Ninjakilla was free to mix it up with f3, f34, b1, 12/123, stance cancels, etc. while throwing fireballs to check movement midscreen. And can whiff punish from anywhere with dragon kick at a moment’s notice. And make use of LK’s million easy krushing blows. If you’re really claiming that Joker’s pressure is somehow ‘spam’ while LK’s kit is honest, I don’t know what to say.

The problem isn’t the forums, it’s just that this mentality sounds like you don’t ‘get’ fighting games, and everyone picked up on that immediately.

 

[Savage8-8]

It is very difficult to use this forum. I think I was clear that Im not trying to convince anyone here, and I could be wrong, but there are some dudes that really feel ofended by almost anything that defies their mindset.

Jesus people....Im just saying what I saw. I could be wrong...again....but I think I have arguments.

First off, get out of your feelings. This is a public forum. And if you wanna post something on here publicly you are vulnerable to any and all criticism. Just bc people don't agree with you doesn't mean that they were offended.

This was a quote from your post:

My interpretation of that match is that, SF was using a lot of the BS in the game, and even using FB and getting better reactions, NJ could not do a shit, because Joker can span almost anything form close and mid range distance and if he gest the hit that is ok (350 damage or more), but if the opponent blocks it, he is safe with pushback.

I think SF outsmarts people exploring the game better and using all the bullhit on his favor. He is one of the best players of all time.....but was weird yesterday.

That's a strong opinion. When you state those, you'll get strong reponses.

 

[BRAZILIAN SHEEP]

That’s not ‘spam’, it’s fighting games.

And as far as 50/50s.. Sonic barely used the overhead, because it’s unsafe. Most of the FB cancels were into throws, which NK teched, or mid blockstring pressure. And that cancel is maybe twice a match maximum.

Meanwhile Ninjakilla was free to mix it up with f3, f34, b1, 12/123, stance cancels, etc. while throwing fireballs to check movement midscreen. And can whiff punish from anywhere with dragon kick at a moment’s notice. And make use of LK’s million easy krushing blows. If you’re really claiming that Joker’s pressure is somehow ‘spam’ while LK’s kit is honest, I don’t know what to say.

The problem isn’t the forums, it’s just that this mentality sounds like you don’t ‘get’ fighting games, and everyone picked up on that immediately.

Of course he didnot use the overhead. He had a free low after that puts him in a position that he could abuse the string again and again and again.
Man....the way "zoning" works in this game, mostly, are spam. See SF 4 for ex....normally you use fireballs and pokes. In MK you use strings that were created with fucked ups hitboxes that serve as anti air mid counter at the same time...in a game that have no decent anti airs.
Just do this: put liu kang in that situation and repeat jokers string. WHAT LIU KANG DO? FB, try something risky like 11 or ....or.....run. You cant neutral jump, nothing....just flawless block....and even then that was not enough.

Dude I play fighting games since 6 years old....I know what a fucked up game is.

 

[BRAZILIAN SHEEP]

First off, get out of your feelings. This is a public forum. And if you wanna post something on here publicly you are vulnerable to any and all criticism. Just bc people don't agree with you doesn't mean that they were offended.

This was a quote from your post:



That's a strong opinion. When you state those, you'll get strong reponses.

Ok, what is your point of view?

 

[DeftMonk]

Lots of mk players seem to think doing something technically “difficult” frequently makes you a better player. At the level of those 2 guys there really isn’t much that is considered technically difficult in mk11. It’s more about making better/more reads and taking advantage of mental frame advantage when it exists (reading ur opponent will respect you too much). Sonicfox played slightly better in that regard and it got him the W.

 

[Savage8-8]

Ok, what is your point of view?

What I said above

SF out-spaced, out-read, and just out-played NJ in grand finals. Even if you make a good argument for general balance changes, the better player won last night.

To expand on that, NJ showed amazing execution. Especially with those flawless blocks. SF reads were superior. He made better decisions which won him the match. Not only that, but he made adjustments after the first set.

 

[Blewdew]

Sonicfox won because he was making better reads in the beginning and got into nk‘s head. You could clearly see that when nk teched sonicfox throw and SF just dashes forward to throw another time. At one point sonic could do almost anything and It worked. It has nothing to do with who has the better character especially not in this specific matchup