Strategy - Jax pros of wrestler over heavy weapons

[HoneyBadgerBJJ]

Looking for an excuse to use wrestler over heavy weapons

its a toss up between the two, I'm ruling out pumped up because the gotcha is not safe on grab

so what are some fundamental differences to these two variations why would you play one over the other

I hope quad slam gets a change in the future, wish it was just flat damage like the other command throws...

what use is the back breaker air grapple as well? what scenarios would you use that?

cheers!

 

[HoneyBadgerBJJ]

okay been playing with both variations a lot and I totally didn't recognize in the OP that a big difference between the two is the energy wave vs rocket launcher... so there's that as well...energy wave amazing for pressure and mix ups...on the other hand rocket has great chip damage and can knock full screen for a corner carry

still don't see the use of the air grapple, you can jump in hit and do an air grapple...but you can also jump in and do a full combo so it's pointless

 

[BookBurning]

I usually use wrestler unless I'm playing against someone that has decent zoning or spacing potential. The quad slam is a solid armored move that can also reset their position to the corner, etc which is exactly where you want them. I use heavy guns vs most characters like sub zero ; his back forward 3 is good at destroying ice clones and the launcher helps give him a nice ranged game. I really don't use pumped up because I like gotcha grab pressure too much. The air grapple? I've used it on and off since it can connect from a jumping kick, it's not really the cream of wrestler but it's still something to have, Quad slam however is great.

 

[AcMilan91]

I usually use wrestler unless I'm playing against someone that has decent zoning or spacing potential. The quad slam is a solid armored move that can also reset their position to the corner, etc which is exactly where you want them. I use heavy guns vs most characters like sub zero ; his back forward 3 is good at destroying ice clones and the launcher helps give him a nice ranged game. I really don't use pumped up because I like gotcha grab pressure too much. The air grapple? I've used it on and off since it can connect from a jumping kick, it's not really the cream of wrestler but it's still something to have, Quad slam however is great.

when do u use quad slam,i have problem i whiff too much,do u connect from some string or ?

 

[QUAN-FUSION]

Does anyone else use LAW cancels for pressure? Don't know how viable it is, but I've had success with it.

Heavy weapons all the way, that anti air gun is awesome.

 

[BookBurning]

when do u use quad slam,i have problem i whiff too much,do u connect from some string or ?

I use it on wakeup occasionally or when I try to read the opponent attacking me since it has armor. Otherwise I dash up and just throw them if they are in a habit of blocking too much.

 

[Phragonist]

I like the f3/f4~grab that only wrestler gets

 

[TomlulsBrady]

I love tyrant, but I feel like the LAW cancels and its zoning properties is a bill Ewave is way better at zonning for me, and as a pressure tool too. I haven't really touched wrestler, but I saw CDjr doing some cool things with it. Imo, I still feel like Pumped up is still the goat Jax variation. Good zonning, counter zonning, pressure, damage, and corner game.

 

[crosstalk]

I'm torn between Pumped Up and Wrestler right now. His style with Wrestler feels more like MK9 with the GG pressure, different ground pounds, air throw etc. But then Pumped Up gets the easier ground pound, more damaging but unsafe GG, and the awesome air ground pound.

Overall I feel Wrestler has a slight edge over Pumped Up. His game plan is still largely the same on all areas of the screen, but he has safer pressure with the GG, and in addition he gets the damaging grabs if the opponent blocks too much.

EX Energy Wave seems completely useless. I wish it was godlike as it was in mk9.

 

[HoneyBadgerBJJ]

I'm torn between Pumped Up and Wrestler right now. His style with Wrestler feels more like MK9 with the GG pressure, different ground pounds, air throw etc. But then Pumped Up gets the easier ground pound, more damaging but unsafe GG, and the awesome air ground pound.

Overall I feel Wrestler has a slight edge over Pumped Up. His game plan is still largely the same on all areas of the screen, but he has safer pressure with the GG, and in addition he gets the damaging grabs if the opponent blocks too much.

EX Energy Wave seems completely useless. I wish it was godlike as it was in mk9.

why wrestler over heavy weapons though?

the safe pressure GG is why I totally write off pumped up for my style of play

its between wrestler and heavy weapons for me

 

[crosstalk]

why wrestler over heavy weapons though?

the safe pressure GG is why I totally write off pumped up for my style of play

its between wrestler and heavy weapons for me

I haven't messed with HW too much, but I think it's really outshined in terms of damage by Wrestler with the damage capabilities given by grab, especially EX. I think Jax's zoning capabilities might be slightly better in HW, but not enough to warrant a change. Energy Wave, delayed Energy Wave, and the different types of ground pounds are just as good at zoning when used properly I think.

 

[AskMeLater]

I've spent some time with each variation they all have their own pros and cons. I think wrestler is the best IMO let me explain.
Wrestler
Pros
Gotcha Grab is safe -4
Quad grab - great mix up tool (more on this later)
Energy wave pressure (last time i checked +8 on block)
Highest damage in the corner of all variations ( 1 bar 49-51% off of overhead or low) (ending combos in quad grab gives more damage then gotcha grab)
12D3 String ( feint can be canceled into quad grab)
can combo off of ground pound from near full screen. (this is hard)
Can combo after EX Gotcha in corner

Cons
Air grab... kind of pointless
F3/4 into grabs strings are also kind of useless F3/4 have better uses in this variation (more on this later)

Pumped Up
Pros
Improved gotcha grab does more damage then regular gotcha grab/ leaves opponent standing for potential mix up
Full screen Ground pound ( great for zoning/ counter zoning)
Air ground pound (great for zoning/counter zoning, and can do some tricky setups with this) (more on this later)
Energy wave pressure

Cons
Gotcha grab unsafe -8 or 9 if I remember correctly (I think this is huge)
cannot combo off of ground pound
Cannot combo after grab

Heavy Weapons
Pros
Law rocket (great projectile can be aimed, great chip on block, great push back on hit, cannot be ducked)
Law rocket run cancel ( great for keeping up pressure)
Gotcha grab is safe -4
Machine gun ( risky but can beat out armored wake ups if timed correctly)
Can combo off ground pound near full screen (this is hard, seriously)
can combo after ex grab in corner

Cons
Loses energy wave pressure (meh not too bad since you can do law cancel instead)

I made this list off the top off my head so sorry if I forgot something but for the most part this is what each variation has going for it. Let me start off by saying that all 3 of these variations are great and it depends on your play style, I may main wrestler but I have gotten destroyed by pumped up and heavy weapons and vice versa.

It all depends on how you like to play, IMO wrestler is the most offensive of the 3 just because I feel people are not giving the quad grab the respect it deserves I think the move is great how it is, it DOES NOT need flat damage, the timing for each slam is FINE I rarely ever miss it in a decent connection, just practice it and you will be able to do it with your eyes closed. (not kidding I do it alot). Oh and another thing please DO NOT write off the quad grab just because you don't get the last slam. The last slam is purely there for hype purposes, it adds 1% and although it does NOT cost an extra meter its not the end of the world if you just end it on the second to last slam. Like really guys its 1% who cares. This variation gives you a whole extra layer to your mix up they NEED to worry about the grab. And as for a comment I saw above about when to land the grab there are so many different ways to do it. IMO this is one of the easiest grabs to land right next to sun god kotal khans grab.

The list is as follows:
Canceling a BLOCKED F3/4 into quad grab is damn near guaranteed
After any blocked string that leaves you at 0 (11,F21, ect) ( recommend using ex if you wanna do it like this)
Canceling the 12D3 feint into grab ( I use this the most)
Tick throw (after a blocked D1/3)
If you have balls walk up and just do it.
You can also end you combos with quad grab ( I recommend doing this whenever possible)

Again I think this grab is amazing what other grab in the game has so many ways to land, AND lets you decide what side you want the opponent to end up on, AND leaves you close enough for another mix up.

As for pumped up I think its the happy medium, you can keep up with zoners and still have a solid offense off the enhanced grab.
The sneaky trick you can do in pumped up is doing an instant air ground pound for some nice guaranteed damage, they see you jump and usually don't react to it. (saw CDJR do it first so I stole it)

Heavy Weapons gives you the best zoning options and some decent offense with run cancel pressure.

At the end of the day its up to you and your play style I like goin HAM so I use wrestler. Then there is the question of match ups and those do differ but I'll save that for another thread (I will say Pumped up is best variation against grandmaster sub)

I wrote this long ass post just to say, as far as Jax goes there is not one "best" variation. Use the one you like the most they are all really good.
I guess what I am trying to say is
PLAY WHATEVER THE FUCK YOU WANNA PLAY.

 

[AcMilan91]

I've spent some time with each variation they all have their own pros and cons. I think wrestler is the best IMO let me explain.
Wrestler
Pros
Gotcha Grab is safe -4
Quad grab - great mix up tool (more on this later)
Energy wave pressure (last time i checked +8 on block)
Highest damage in the corner of all variations ( 1 bar 49-51% off of overhead or low) (ending combos in quad grab gives more damage then gotcha grab)
12D3 String ( feint can be canceled into quad grab)
can combo off of ground pound from near full screen. (this is hard)
Can combo after EX Gotcha in corner

Cons
Air grab... kind of pointless
F3/4 into grabs strings are also kind of useless F3/4 have better uses in this variation (more on this later)

Pumped Up
Pros
Improved gotcha grab does more damage then regular gotcha grab/ leaves opponent standing for potential mix up
Full screen Ground pound ( great for zoning/ counter zoning)
Air ground pound (great for zoning/counter zoning, and can do some tricky setups with this) (more on this later)
Energy wave pressure

Cons
Gotcha grab unsafe -8 or 9 if I remember correctly (I think this is huge)
cannot combo off of ground pound
Cannot combo after grab

Heavy Weapons
Pros
Law rocket (great projectile can be aimed, great chip on block, great push back on hit, cannot be ducked)
Law rocket run cancel ( great for keeping up pressure)
Gotcha grab is safe -4
Machine gun ( risky but can beat out armored wake ups if timed correctly)
Can combo off ground pound near full screen (this is hard, seriously)
can combo after ex grab in corner

Cons
Loses energy wave pressure (meh not too bad since you can do law cancel instead)

I made this list off the top off my head so sorry if I forgot something but for the most part this is what each variation has going for it. Let me start off by saying that all 3 of these variations are great and it depends on your play style, I may main wrestler but I have gotten destroyed by pumped up and heavy weapons and vice versa.

It all depends on how you like to play, IMO wrestler is the most offensive of the 3 just because I feel people are not giving the quad grab the respect it deserves I think the move is great how it is, it DOES NOT need flat damage, the timing for each slam is FINE I rarely ever miss it in a decent connection, just practice it and you will be able to do it with your eyes closed. (not kidding I do it alot). Oh and another thing please DO NOT write off the quad grab just because you don't get the last slam. The last slam is purely there for hype purposes, it adds 1% and although it does NOT cost an extra meter its not the end of the world if you just end it on the second to last slam. Like really guys its 1% who cares. This variation gives you a whole extra layer to your mix up they NEED to worry about the grab. And as for a comment I saw above about when to land the grab there are so many different ways to do it. IMO this is one of the easiest grabs to land right next to sun god kotal khans grab.

The list is as follows:
Canceling a BLOCKED F3/4 into quad grab is damn near guaranteed
After any blocked string that leaves you at 0 (11,F21, ect) ( recommend using ex if you wanna do it like this)
Canceling the 12D3 feint into grab ( I use this the most)
Tick throw (after a blocked D1/3)
If you have balls walk up and just do it.
You can also end you combos with quad grab ( I recommend doing this whenever possible)

Again I think this grab is amazing what other grab in the game has so many ways to land, AND lets you decide what side you want the opponent to end up on, AND leaves you close enough for another mix up.

As for pumped up I think its the happy medium, you can keep up with zoners and still have a solid offense off the enhanced grab.
The sneaky trick you can do in pumped up is doing an instant air ground pound for some nice guaranteed damage, they see you jump and usually don't react to it. (saw CDJR do it first so I stole it)

Heavy Weapons gives you the best zoning options and some decent offense with run cancel pressure.

At the end of the day its up to you and your play style I like goin HAM so I use wrestler. Then there is the question of match ups and those do differ but I'll save that for another thread (I will say Pumped up is best variation against grandmaster sub)

I wrote this long ass post just to say, as far as Jax goes there is not one "best" variation. Use the one you like the most they are all really good.
I guess what I am trying to say is
PLAY WHATEVER THE FUCK YOU WANNA PLAY.

nice post,would be nice to post some of wrestler corner combos how u end in quad slam,i main wrestler too

 

[Eddy Wang]

Pumped up is for general
Heavy Weapons is for Tyrant
Wrestler is for CDjr.

 

[RyuKazuya]

I've spent some time with each variation they all have their own pros and cons. I think wrestler is the best IMO let me explain.
Wrestler
Pros
Gotcha Grab is safe -4
Quad grab - great mix up tool (more on this later)
Energy wave pressure (last time i checked +8 on block)
Highest damage in the corner of all variations ( 1 bar 49-51% off of overhead or low) (ending combos in quad grab gives more damage then gotcha grab)
12D3 String ( feint can be canceled into quad grab)
can combo off of ground pound from near full screen. (this is hard)
Can combo after EX Gotcha in corner

Cons
Air grab... kind of pointless
F3/4 into grabs strings are also kind of useless F3/4 have better uses in this variation (more on this later)

Pumped Up
Pros
Improved gotcha grab does more damage then regular gotcha grab/ leaves opponent standing for potential mix up
Full screen Ground pound ( great for zoning/ counter zoning)
Air ground pound (great for zoning/counter zoning, and can do some tricky setups with this) (more on this later)
Energy wave pressure

Cons
Gotcha grab unsafe -8 or 9 if I remember correctly (I think this is huge)
cannot combo off of ground pound
Cannot combo after grab

Heavy Weapons
Pros
Law rocket (great projectile can be aimed, great chip on block, great push back on hit, cannot be ducked)
Law rocket run cancel ( great for keeping up pressure)
Gotcha grab is safe -4
Machine gun ( risky but can beat out armored wake ups if timed correctly)
Can combo off ground pound near full screen (this is hard, seriously)
can combo after ex grab in corner

Cons
Loses energy wave pressure (meh not too bad since you can do law cancel instead)

I made this list off the top off my head so sorry if I forgot something but for the most part this is what each variation has going for it. Let me start off by saying that all 3 of these variations are great and it depends on your play style, I may main wrestler but I have gotten destroyed by pumped up and heavy weapons and vice versa.

It all depends on how you like to play, IMO wrestler is the most offensive of the 3 just because I feel people are not giving the quad grab the respect it deserves I think the move is great how it is, it DOES NOT need flat damage, the timing for each slam is FINE I rarely ever miss it in a decent connection, just practice it and you will be able to do it with your eyes closed. (not kidding I do it alot). Oh and another thing please DO NOT write off the quad grab just because you don't get the last slam. The last slam is purely there for hype purposes, it adds 1% and although it does NOT cost an extra meter its not the end of the world if you just end it on the second to last slam. Like really guys its 1% who cares. This variation gives you a whole extra layer to your mix up they NEED to worry about the grab. And as for a comment I saw above about when to land the grab there are so many different ways to do it. IMO this is one of the easiest grabs to land right next to sun god kotal khans grab.

The list is as follows:
Canceling a BLOCKED F3/4 into quad grab is damn near guaranteed
After any blocked string that leaves you at 0 (11,F21, ect) ( recommend using ex if you wanna do it like this)
Canceling the 12D3 feint into grab ( I use this the most)
Tick throw (after a blocked D1/3)
If you have balls walk up and just do it.
You can also end you combos with quad grab ( I recommend doing this whenever possible)

Again I think this grab is amazing what other grab in the game has so many ways to land, AND lets you decide what side you want the opponent to end up on, AND leaves you close enough for another mix up.

As for pumped up I think its the happy medium, you can keep up with zoners and still have a solid offense off the enhanced grab.
The sneaky trick you can do in pumped up is doing an instant air ground pound for some nice guaranteed damage, they see you jump and usually don't react to it. (saw CDJR do it first so I stole it)

Heavy Weapons gives you the best zoning options and some decent offense with run cancel pressure.

At the end of the day its up to you and your play style I like goin HAM so I use wrestler. Then there is the question of match ups and those do differ but I'll save that for another thread (I will say Pumped up is best variation against grandmaster sub)

I wrote this long ass post just to say, as far as Jax goes there is not one "best" variation. Use the one you like the most they are all really good.
I guess what I am trying to say is
PLAY WHATEVER THE FUCK YOU WANNA PLAY.

Awesome post bro

 

[Billy Young]

You can't get a quad grab out of an opponents blocked string. Works on blocked F3/4 and 12d3 and its good to use it in the corner when theyre falling. The thing is, if you're doing 12d3 you would be better off doing 123 for its combo potential. I think youre over reacting a bit on the quad grab, its nice but not that nice.
Edit: tested it, works on a blocked 124 everytime. More chip damage and easier to buffer with this string too.

 

[AskMeLater]

You can't get a quad grab out of an opponents blocked string. Works on blocked F3/4 and 12d3 and its good to use it in the corner when theyre falling. The thing is, if you're doing 12d3 you would be better off doing 123 for its combo potential. I think youre over reacting a bit on the quad grab, its nice but not that nice.
Edit: tested it, works on a blocked 124 everytime. More chip damage and easier to buffer with this string too.

Obviously doing 123 leads into a bigger combo, but eventually better players will start blocking the entire string and punish you for it. If you just assume the 123 will hit every time you have to commit to the overhead dash punch. Which can get you killed.

Point is everytime opponent blocks 12 they get put into a 50/50
A. go 12 xx overhead dash punch (if they have been blocking the low hit of 123)
B. go 123 xx overhead dash punch (if they start blocking high expecting the dash punch after 12)
C.only in wrestler do 12D3 xx Quad Grab. (if they have been blocking everything)

I have run into really good players online that will actually react to the low hit and then block high so the quad grab is a must at higher level play.
Also reason I like to use 12D3 instead of 124 is that it looks exactly like 123 and if someone sees a low coming why would they hold up.
Lets be real Jax's strings are not that hard to block once you have seen them a couple times.
I would rather not commit to the dash punch since its a free combo for them if blocked.
So having this just gives me another option.

Also this is the corner combo:
Overhead

B2 xx Overhead dash punch, D1, B34 xx EX gotcha grab, 124 quad grab (timing is tricky but not too hard, dont forget to get both hits of the grab and make first one go away so they end up back in corner) 50%

Low
Same thing starts off of B34 though 49%

 

[Bender]

okay been playing with both variations a lot and I totally didn't recognize in the OP that a big difference between the two is the energy wave vs rocket launcher... so there's that as well...energy wave amazing for pressure and mix ups...on the other hand rocket has great chip damage and can knock full screen for a corner carry

still don't see the use of the air grapple, you can jump in hit and do an air grapple...but you can also jump in and do a full combo so it's pointless

I realize I'm late to the party, but the cancels for HW makes the character. His corner pressure is unreal with 123 or 2,3 into LAW cancel and another pressure string or grab. Additionally, you can extend combos and utilize F3 safety with the LAW cancel - makes it easy to hit confirm and makes Jax really really safe.

I'll probably learn Pumped Up next, simply because he seems better at zoning, which could be nice for specific MU's.

 

[Death]

Obviously doing 123 leads into a bigger combo, but eventually better players will start blocking the entire string and punish you for it. If you just assume the 123 will hit every time you have to commit to the overhead dash punch. Which can get you killed.

Point is everytime opponent blocks 12 they get put into a 50/50
A. go 12 xx overhead dash punch (if they have been blocking the low hit of 123)
B. go 123 xx overhead dash punch (if they start blocking high expecting the dash punch after 12)
C.only in wrestler do 12D3 xx Quad Grab. (if they have been blocking everything)

I have run into really good players online that will actually react to the low hit and then block high so the quad grab is a must at higher level play.
Also reason I like to use 12D3 instead of 124 is that it looks exactly like 123 and if someone sees a low coming why would they hold up.
Lets be real Jax's strings are not that hard to block once you have seen them a couple times.
I would rather not commit to the dash punch since its a free combo for them if blocked.
So having this just gives me another option.

Also this is the corner combo:
Overhead

B2 xx Overhead dash punch, D1, B34 xx EX gotcha grab, 124 quad grab (timing is tricky but not too hard, dont forget to get both hits of the grab and make first one go away so they end up back in corner) 50%

Low
Same thing starts off of B34 though 49%

This is a great post about Jax. I do think at higher levels the Quad grab will be huge.