Proof That Some Attacks have more Advantage on Crouch Block

[daddydab32ho]

I'm 10000% confident the block stun garbage will not be fixed

FML lol

 

[haketh]

I'm 10000% confident the block stun garbage will not be fixed

Are we positive it's not just things hitting later in active frames thus granting more advantage yet instead of something else goofy?

 

[buyacushun]

I don't think this explanation is right, because in your case even the reversal specials should be influenced and come out later, but REO said they work the same regardless of how you block the move.

Specials do have some sort unique setting where they can come out frame perfect but not normals. I think it's that plus what @Braindead mentioned together that's causing this odd reaction.

 

[Bildslash]

If NRS used 2D hit and hurtboxes this wouldn't happen. Alas, they use some sort of 3D collision detection algorithm, hence the variability in hitstun, blockstun, whiffing, and whatnot.

 

[REO]

OK final video example this time with a character trying to jump out of crouch block instead of using a normal.

Gonna edit the other examples into the original post.

Let me know what other normals you guys find that have different advantage on crouch block.

 

[RM_Gamer]

so this means liu kang's d3 is +2 because u have to block it low obviously. please fix nrs

 

[Bildslash]

so this means liu kang's d3 is +2 because u have to block it low obviously. please fix nrs

Is not going to get fixed I'm sure. This probably is hard coded into the game's engine making it essentially a feature.

 

[kivatt]

I'm 10000% confident the block stun garbage will not be fixed

I have never seen so much confidence before in my life

 

[roosTakk]

None of this matters to me cuz im an online warrior and the input delay ranges from like 5-60 frames anyway.

Thanks NRS

 

[MK_Al]

I think having more adv/disadv when crouch blocking is maybe not the problem, rather the randomness. If poking after crouch blocking would take consistantly like 1f more than stand blocking I would actually like it, because it would encourage high blocking and open up to more pokes.

 

[infamy23]

I thought this was common knowledge?

It takes 1 frame to stand up from a crouch blocking state. This makes Predator's 21 string +1 on block instead of 0.

If you block his 21 string crouching, it will hit 1 frame later because Cassie's hitbox is lower. This increases Predator's block advantage by 1 frame. (All fighting games work like this, it's nothing new.)

These two mechanics together, make his 21 string +2 on crouch block.

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This is unrelated, but people are talking about it in here so I'll just clarify:

When you do a reversal special, 1 frame of blockstun is removed.

If you do a reversal special from a crouching state, that 1 frame that is removed will override the "standing up" frame, which is why crouch blocking has no effect on reversal specials.

 

[lm Tweakk]

I agree

the block stun is very stupid and extremely annoying

Should reward immediate reactions, not having to wait .4 sec here, .9 sec here, . 2 sec here

imo very bad decision to have it this way

214 woth scorpion is -14 yet it's fucking impossible to punish. Fuck outta here NRS

 

[MK_Al]

It takes 1 frame to stand up from a crouch blocking state. This makes Predator's 21 string +1 on block instead of 0

But nobody is standing up here. Crouch blocking -> crouch poking
But I agree with the second part.

 

[Asodimazze]

I thought this was common knowledge?

It takes 1 frame to stand up from a crouch blocking state. This makes Predator's 21 string +1 on block instead of 0.

If you block his 21 string crouching, it will hit 1 frame later because Cassie's hitbox is lower. This increases Predator's block advantage by 1 frame. (All fighting games work like this, it's nothing new.)

These two mechanics together, make his 21 string +2 on crouch block.

----------

This is unrelated, but people are talking about it in here so I'll just clarify:

When you do a reversal special, 1 frame of blockstun is removed.

If you do a reversal special from a crouching state, that 1 frame that is removed will override the "standing up" frame, which is why crouch blocking has no effect on reversal specials.

1) Cassie does a low poke when she is already crouching, there isn't any standing transition.

2) If you think Predator 2,1 hits 1 frame later because the opponent is crouch blocking (increasing the block advantage by 1), that should affect reversals too...but it's not the case.

I don't know why what REO showed happens, but it's very weird and has nothing to do with the other general rules of the game that we know I think. I wonder if NRS can explain this.

 

[Big Pampering]

So P2win was right all along with the variable blockstun thing?

 

[n1kosh]

214 woth scorpion is -14 yet it's fucking impossible to punish. Fuck outta here NRS

You can punish all....

 

[Rampage254]

This gives me an excuse to mash my pokes even harder, after they've been blocked. Yaas

 

[infamy23]

1) Cassie does a low poke when she is already crouching, there isn't any standing transition.

2) If you think Predator 2,1 hits 1 frame later because the opponent is crouch blocking (increasing the block advantage by 1), that should affect reversals too...but it's not the case.

I don't know why what REO showed happens, but it's very weird and has nothing to do with the other general rules of the game that we know I think. I wonder if NRS can explain this.

Predator's 21 hits on the 2nd active frame if Cassie is crouching. I have tested and verified this.

Hitting on a later active frame does affect reversals. You can easily demonstrate this by picking Slasher Jason vs Jax in training mode, and doing f42 over and over against reversal dash punch.

Jason will randomly block the dash punch, even though f42 is -10 and should be punished every time. (the game says -11 but it is wrong)

The reason Jason can randomly block this reversal is because Jax's breathing animation or whatever causes the f42 to hit on the 2nd active frame sometimes, which makes it -9 instead of -10, therefore safe against Jax's dash punch.

As far as Cassie not having to stand up... I'm not sure what's going on there so I'll have to test further. I have already noticed that if she blocks Predators d1 crouching, she can only respond 21 frames after the frame of contact. But if she blocks d1 standing, she can respond after 19 frames.

^that is fucked up and it's the first time I've noticed something like that so I gotta dig deeper.

 

[Koor]

MKX man...............

 

[STRYKIE]

The theories I'm reading as to why this happens don't really add up. I've seen this happen with moves with very little active frames that give a significant difference in block advantage if crouch blocked.

I don't remember this happening in MK9, didn't play Injustice enough to say, but I can only guess the UE3 middleware is starting to spiral out of control by now. Keep in mind they're still working with freaking MK vs DC base code. Corrupted Shinnok look familiar to anyone?

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

@infamy23 is apparently our new Somberness. Can't wait to see what you find and hopefully we can find out exactly what is going on.

 

[THTB]

This was present in MK9 and Injustice. And if I'm not mistaken, this actually exists in the old 2D MKs as well...at least from what I've felt playing them.

This probably goes right down to the core of the game itself.

While we're talking about blocking shit, why is nobody pointing out that some characters don't reel back as far on the heavy pushback animations...? Tanya for example reels back super far, but Jax barely budges. @colt

 

[infamy23]

So this is weird...

I'm testing Predator's d1 vs standing Cassie.

d1 hits on the 10th frame like it's supposed to.

on frame 28, Cassie can begin a reversal special.

Reversal flip kick always hits on frame 34 like it should.

Now here is what is messed up. Based on what we know, Cassie should only be able to do a normal attack on frame 29 or later.

In my testing, if Cassie presses d1 on frame 29, it will hit on frame 36 like it should.

BUT, if she presses d1 on frame 28, the move STILL comes out, but it ALSO hits on frame 36 which makes no sense.

Upon examination of the animation, you can see in the following 2 screenshots that when she presses d1 on frame 28, she doesn't actually start animating until the next frame. If she presses d1 on frame 29, she starts animating immediately.

d1 on frame 28, still blocking:

d1 on frame 29, already in startup:

I've run this test dozens of times now and it's always the same.

Based on this, it seems there is some kind of 1 frame input buffer when you are doing a normal out of blockstun from a standing position.

I haven't been able to replicate this from a crouch block but I'll keep trying.

 

[THTB]

If NRS used 2D hit and hurtboxes this wouldn't happen. Alas, they use some sort of 3D collision detection algorithm, hence the variability in hitstun, blockstun, whiffing, and whatnot.

2D hitboxes and hurtboxes have zero to do with anything related to higher frame advantage for crouch block. Seeing as how this existed in MK9, Injustice, and even 2D MKs seemed to suffer from this, I wonder if it's just intentional.

 

[Bildslash]

2D hitboxes and hurtboxes have zero to do with anything related to higher frame advantage for crouch block. Seeing as how this existed in MK9, Injustice, and even 2D MKs seemed to suffer from this, I wonder if it's just intentional.

I mean hitboxes overlapped to the models, like KI3 does. To my knowledge NRS has never used such method for collision detection and actually uses the 3D models of the characters themselves.