Problems, reasons, excuses

[GLoRToR]

Hi everyone,

This is a long-winded yap about TYM, NRS and where I think we could improve.
I've come a long way since I first joined this forum, looking for answers (and never really getting them, or at least not here). Most of the people whom were actually helpful I've found online. @Asodimazze and @Madzin get most of my thanks for setting my mind straight about how to actually improve my game plan.

That aside, the first time I joined this forum, as I said looking for answers, nobody even bothered. I mean, every community has its issues, but, chastising people for having an opinion or even better: for asking a question? TYM for you.
We unapologetically lay into one another and hate on each others' characters as well as the people representing them, failing to notice something very simple and obvious.
Guess I'll have to state the obvious so that some people maybe catch some light.
Here goes.

When Kano is a bad character, it's the same issue as when Kitana gets nerfed into dirt. It's the same problem as when either of them get buffed, or when other characters encounter the same issue.

The problem's name is erratic game development, bad design management, lacking internal communication, as well as a score of other things such as a half-assed control group that can't even be bothered to properly beta-test a PATCH. Let me break it down to you a bit further.
DISCLAIMER: The names, places and terms in the following are fictional. Any resemblance of anything remotely real is a pure coinkydink. Honest.

Erratic game development:
DevManager: "Augh-kay guys let's make all these models regardless of frame data, right? We'll cheat with animation at some point to make it click a bit, nobody's gonna notice ahuh huhuh ahuhuh."
5000$ of models later:
JuniorGraphicsDeveloper: "I don't know man, shouldn't we do what KI or SF does and actually y'know, STREAMLINE our hitboxes?" *Crickets*
NewJuniorGraphics Developer: "So you want me to make the hitbox of this character's arm extend under its own foot why exactly?" *Crickets*
EvenMoarNewerJGD: "Dude I don't even know this shit. What do you mean the predecessors took the documents? How are you going to..." *Looks around in the room, shuts up and does something remotely reminiscent of what he was asked. Gets paid big, buys new car.*
5000$ of animations later
DevManager: "So, how's development huhuh?"
QA Dept: "Well you see we have 36 different objects, that we animated in three radically different and unique..."
DevManager: "Speak american, damn it."
QA Dept: "We have 36 characters, each with 3 variations, none of which are working as intended."
DevManager: "Release the game."
QA Dept: "Wait wh--"
DevManager: "Release the game! We'll nerf the most popular characters and buff the least popular ones halfway into next year."
QA Dept: "Eh I'm not getting paid enough for this shit."
DevManager: "You're... fired?"
QA Dept: "Okay okay fine I'll talk to marketing."
DevManager: "And get me some of those pretzels, huh?"
Meanwhile at KI's development office:
DevManager: "How's development?"
QA Dept: "We have tested two of them, Jago and Sabermilf are both fine. Should we look into the others?"
DevManager: "First, call marketing, tell them to get us a spot to introduce the game. THEN get working on two more. Make sure to probe market and check who else are popular. Probably Orchid, but still, ask. It's them we're making the game for. We'll release when four of them work fine and see where we'll get from there once people play it."
QA Dept: "Can I go get some pretzels?"
DevManager: "Sure, please get me a coke."


Bad Design Management:
DevManager: "Sooough, Street Fighter has a huuuuge roster, all of them are viable, even low tier wins tournaments. We'll make a roster about half that big, but with three different variations."
AssistantJuniorDev: "Wait, the original first-release version of SF had a roster of what, ten? And all of them were pretty balanced, shouldn't we focus on creating a proper wireframe of rules for our game before we mass-produce variables into an unstable system? I mean, it took SF like five years to get this many characters going." *Crickets*
NewAssistantJuniorDev: "Okay, so you want three variations for all these. What am I balancing them on?"
DevManager: "Make everyone's b3 a low kick."
NewAssistantJuniorDev: "... right. O-kay."
DevManager: "And get me some pretzels, huh?"
Meanwhile at KI's development office:
DevManager: "Guys, what are you doing?"
AssistantJuniorDev: "We're kinda figuring if SF has so many characters, we might want to speed things up. Nobody's looking at that hitbox, they can't even see it..." *Crickets*
NewAssistantJuniorDev: "The hell was my predecessor doing? Oh, design documents? What, this hand's hitbox extends past the guy's ear? lolwtf. Mind if I fix it? Premium for retroactive bugfixing? I LOVE you guys. And thanks for the pretzels."

Lacking Internal Communication:
HeadOfDept: "So, we've announced this patch."
DevManager: "Yeahuh, we got 24 hours to do something uhuh."
HeadOfDept: "You mean you announced the patch before you've done anything."
DevManager: "Well uh.. not really, I mean we have 10 different Scorpion costumes ready as well as Kobra, Meat, BoRaiCho, a female Reptile, Smoke, Noob, and ten others ready with variations and animations."
HeadOfDept: "Why didn't anybody tell me about this?"
QA Dept: "Wait, we have a patch announced?"
DevManager: "You don't read my twitter?"
QA Dept: "You didn't post ANYTHING."
DevManager: *Looks at phone, presses Send* "Yeah, sorry, forgot, was out to get pretzels." *munches*
Meanwhile at KI's development office:
HeadOfDept: "Hurry up, it's been five days with that bug in the game."
DevManager: "We know, working on it. We addressed the bug but it's more complicated. When we introduced that new mechanic, something went awry with the code."
HeadOfDept: "I know you're working on it. I've seen your memo. Will this delay the release of Maya?"
DevManager: "Not on your life. She's being tested in the other room. Just don't want to throw out dlc before this is fixed. Making sure deadlines are met, not to worry."
HeadOfDept: "We're out of pretzels."
Supplier: "We know. Working on it."

Bottom line is this: We were promised better online play yet all they bother with is announcing new DLC. They themselves don't even know what the fuck is up with their game.
2015. Next gen.
Pathetic.

 

[Sage Leviathan]

I think all would be fine if you got the damn Dev Manager his goddamn pretzels.

 

[Doombawkz]

Reality of the situation:
No one talks in this part because a team of professionals in their fields are all working on seperate parts of the game in which they have years of experience.

When they do talk:
QA: There's a problem.
Development: What is it?
QA: -explains problem in specifics in order to ensure a proper fix-
Development: Alright, we'll allocate some resource to it and try to hotfix it.

Then a hotfix happens.


I don't get where people have this illusion that leaders of a multi-million/billion dollar business are just lounging around offices taking the piss and eating pretzels.

Like honestly, I'm aware if maybe its satire then thats funny and I applaude you for it.
If you are serious in any kind of a way, though, I'd ask you to go get a position at the top of those companies and then try to get pretzels.

 

[GLoRToR]

Reality of the situation:
No one talks in this part because a team of professionals in their fields are all working on seperate parts of the game in which they have years of experience.

When they do talk:
QA: There's a problem.
Development: What is it?
QA: -explains problem in specifics in order to ensure a proper fix-
Development: Alright, we'll allocate some resource to it and try to hotfix it.

Then a hotfix happens.


I don't get where people have this illusion that leaders of a multi-million/billion dollar business are just lounging around offices taking the piss and eating pretzels.

Like honestly, I'm aware if maybe its satire then thats funny and I applaude you for it.
If you are serious in any kind of a way, though, I'd ask you to go get a position at the top of those companies and then try to get pretzels.

1. I'm either taking the same stance as you do, or you will brand me as inferior? I see.
2. You probably don't understand where I'm coming from or what I'm poking fun at because you have never been in design management and haven't seen these things. Which is proven by your example of the hotfix communication.
That's how it looks in a textbook, yes.
In reality, when a problem surfaces, cost vs efficiency is calculated a lot of the time and certain things - such as netplay - are deemed too expensive and will not be addressed past a certain point.
But I digress.
I'm pretty sure you just logged on after a long day and wanted to lay into somebody on the forum real quick, like all of this community does.

 

[Doombawkz]

1. I'm either taking the same stance as you do, or you will brand me as inferior? I see.
2. You probably don't understand where I'm coming from or what I'm poking fun at because you have never been in design management and haven't seen these things. Which is proven by your example of the hotfix communication.
That's how it looks in a textbook, yes.
In reality, when a problem surfaces, cost vs efficiency is calculated a lot of the time and certain things - such as netplay - are deemed too expensive and will not be addressed past a certain point.
But I digress.
I'm pretty sure you just logged on after a long day and wanted to lay into somebody on the forum real quick, like all of this community does.

1. Not really sure where the inferiority thing is coming from, but for your claimed aptitude for design management I'll say good job I suppose. Doesn't help the strawman fallacy you provided, or the All True Scotsman one either following, but I'll play around it. I don't mean any disrespect, not did I intend to come off as such, just my experience differs.

2. I specifically noted that if it is satire then its funny, but my only real beef comes from the QA and Dev Management, since from my own experience in QA its not as colloquial as you stated. Hence the "try and get pretzels" ender to my statement, indicating that I am also poking fun at it but I've seen it from a much more serious and isolated side of things, where the only time you'd trade words is in the case that a huge deal breaker is found and needs immediate attention. As for the long-run, I'm very aware of the trade off between cost and care and certain things get put on the backburner until they crisp, but that really wasn't my department so I'm not going to press you on it because, by all means, you probably have the better idea than I do.

It has been a long day, but it wasn't so much a lay-in as a "I don't agree, but I'll play along" that got lost in translation along the way.


I will stand by my statement, though, that the community does have some very big misconceptions about how the companies work, and have a disturbing lack of trust in businesses whose entire existance is built on the fact that they are professionals in this area.

 

[Sage Leviathan]

I'm pretty sure you just logged on after a long day and wanted to lay into somebody on the forum real quick, like all of this community does.

This is the truest statement I've seen on the boards in some time.
No way this was @Doombawkz 's intention, but can we be real for a fucking second?

 

[Ryncage]

Yeah the balance is a joke and its clear that nrs doesnt test half the changes they make. (Nice "hotfix" guys. )

As far as tym goes, i think half the reason for all the shitposting is because everyone has an agenda. Be it seeing their main buffed, left as is, or another character you dont like nerfed, so you best hold onto those steaming hot opinions. if your not on their side, you get all the downplays and asspulls to make you too irritated to reply and your point get lost in the spam. Regardless of how legitimate your concerns or issues are. (Even when spelled out plain as day in vid format)

But for what its worth, its an entertaining clusterfuck st the very least.

 

[BrobaChett]

Obvious shitty NRS game is obviously shitty.

 

[GLoRToR]

I've seen it from a much more serious and isolated side of things, where the only time you'd trade words is in the case that a huge deal breaker is found and needs immediate attention.

Then I've misread you, I saw it as an attack, probably because that's all that's happening around here lately.
That's the professional way to work things, yes, you're right.
What I'm poking fun at, specifically, is how people will bow to the almighty money and submit all quality and work ethics to deadline constraints. Nothing matters, just the cost and the income, which is why almost every contemporary game makes people feel all sorts of wrong.

 

[aj1701]

This is the truest statement I've seen on the boards in some time.
No way this was @Doombawkz 's intention, but can we be real for a fucking second?

Ok, let's be real. The OP is full of shit. Even if he's trying to be funny, it's pretty clear he doesn't know how software development works. all software has bugs, just like we'll never be rid of defective xboxes, traffic accidents, and salmonella in peanut butter. Everyone involved the the game i'm sure takes building and fixing it seriously, but there are always constraints that need to be worked in. you'll never find all the bugs, you'll never be able to fix all the bugs you know of. You'd go out of business trying, so at some point someone makes a call and it sucks you know you're shipping with some issues, and nobody likes that. it's just the nature of the industry though, and especially for games where you get huge sales at first if you're lucky, and by next year your game is probably forgotten.

 

[Doombawkz]

Ok, let's be real. The OP is full of shit. Even if he's trying to be funny, it's pretty clear he doesn't know how software development works. all software has bugs, just like we'll never be rid of defective xboxes, traffic accidents, and salmonella in peanut butter. Everyone involved the the game i'm sure takes building and fixing it seriously, but there are always constraints that need to be worked in. you'll never find all the bugs, you'll never be able to fix all the bugs you know of. You'd go out of business trying, so at some point someone makes a call and it sucks you know you're shipping with some issues, and nobody likes that. it's just the nature of the industry though, and especially for games where you get huge sales at first if you're lucky, and by next year your game is probably forgotten.

It's purposefully satirical, with a focus on the power of monetary incentive upon the process of development.

So in other words, yes he is but its on purpose.

 

[aj1701]

Then I've misread you, I saw it as an attack, probably because that's all that's happening around here lately.
That's the professional way to work things, yes, you're right.
What I'm poking fun at, specifically, is how people will bow to the almighty money and submit all quality and work ethics to deadline constraints. Nothing matters, just the cost and the income, which is why almost every contemporary game makes people feel all sorts of wrong.

Do you work for free? because the people at nrs do need to make a living too at the end of the day, so ya money is a factor in their decision making process. Please grow up.

 

[aj1701]

It's purposefully satirical, with a focus on the power of monitary incentive upon the process of development.

So in other words, yes he is but its on purpose.

And its childish. yes, they are just trying to earn a living, just like i do writing software. and yes, money plays a part in our decision making process too, we sometimes ship with known defects, as much as we'd like to fix them, we have lives too and sometimes the new feature is worth more to the business than fixing that bug.

It's called resource management.

 

[Doombawkz]

And its childish. yes, they are just trying to earn a living, just like i do writing software. and yes, money plays a part in our decision making process too, we sometimes ship with known defects, as much as we'd like to fix them, we have lives too and sometimes the new feature is worth more to the business than fixing that bug.

It's called resource management.

No one said he wasn't going about it the wrong way, as per my statement before I ended with "but if its satire then ok, its funny.".

I'm aware of how the system works, and while its sometimes about money it really is about people who have a passion for the game they are making, but lack the infinite resources to bring everything to fruition.

 

[aj1701]

No one said he wasn't going about it the wrong way, as per my statement before I ended with "but if its satire then ok, its funny.".

I'm aware of how the system works, and while its sometimes about money it really is about people who have a passion for the game they are making, but lack the infinite resources to bring everything to fruition.

This thread is pointless though. he's just trashing nrs because he's unhappy. i don't like the game either, but i'm not venting by bashing them by joking that they're incompetent. it's not even funny satire, its just pointless bashing while trying to get a few likes.

 

[Enexemander]

I've come a long way since I first joined this forum, looking for answers (and never really getting them, or at least not here). Most of the people whom were actually helpful I've found online. @@Asodimazze and @@Madzin get most of my thanks for setting my mind straight about how to actually improve my game plan.

It's not too late for us to make the forum more like the one you were looking for. I'm new to modern fighting games (and this forum). I understand where you're coming from, because I wish this forum was more about the strategy and tactics as well. As users, it's up to us to make that content.

I'm guessing (hoping?) that this forum works in two stages.

Stage 1- Active support from NRS, which includes absolutely WILD swings in character balance that are heavily influenced by the tournament players and general sentiment on this forum. This is the propaganda stage.

Stage 2- Active support from NRS ends. There are no more buffs or nerfs. Propaganda at this point is pointless. Now energy can be concentrated on strategy.

As much as I like to see a game supported, I'm looking forward to stage 2. If NRS said tomorrow "The game now is the game, period. We're only doing bug fixes from here on out if they come up." I'd be okay with that. At least then we'd have a solid foundation to work from, and the constant up-play / down-play might taper off.

 

[GLoRToR]

This thread is pointless though. he's just trashing nrs because he's unhappy. i don't like the game either, but i'm not venting by bashing them by joking that they're incompetent. it's not even funny satire, its just pointless bashing while trying to get a few likes.

Three posts attacking me? Wow.
Grow up. lol

 

[Eddy Wang]

Why are some so mad to NRS, i'm i the only one to think that it would be a dream com true if i could test for them fulltime like bit does?

 

[GrandMasterson]

Glortor, I get where you're coming from and agree about TYM's shitty attitude, but your post is just really silly and didn't make much sense.

For the record, NRS didn't even make the 3D models, they were outsourced to a Chinese company. And I guarantee you they costed way, way more than $5,000 as well lol.

 

[neskanu]

<...> all software has bugs, just like we'll never be rid of defective xboxes, traffic accidents, and salmonella in peanut butter. <...>

so much truth has been spoken

 

[GLoRToR]

Glortor, I get where you're coming from and agree about TYM's shitty attitude, but your post is just really silly and didn't make much sense.

For the record, NRS didn't even make the 3D models, they were outsourced to a Chinese company. And I guarantee you they costed way, way more than $5,000 as well lol.

The first part of my post is serious.
The part where I say NRS is fucking up, is semi-serious; I understand how game development works, what I don't understand is why they prioritised a huge roster instead of making 5 characters for the first season, all 5 of which are balanced and playable online.
The part where I wrote conversations and pointless shit I was snickering at my screen imagining it like a cartoon and wanted to share the nonsense.

I do in fact know how game development works, way more than the average laic.
I do in fact care about this game, and feel it underwhelming because I have no offline scene.
I do NOT in fact rage at my screen 24/7 like some people do who forget that this is only a game.

Do I feel like I wasted money on this? Yes.
Have I given up hope? No.

I in fact believe that the long wait is going to give us some fixes to online play that everybody has been asking for; it does take a very long time to fix that and hopefully they will have the resources to test it all.

 

[GAV]

@GLoRToR

I like that you're going at this a different way. You were so angry about Tanya hate and then the Tanya nerfs that you were never going to get the answers you were looking for.

The posters here respond to talk geared towards the greater good for everyone. The perception of you is that you have been for yourself, but as that perception changes - so will your experience here.

No offense meant; just trying to be helpful.

 

[IMakeItL00kC00L]

The problem with TYM is that they constantly downplay their respective mains (e.g. The fucking kano community minus coach steve & youphemism). It's gotten absolutely absurd at this point.

 

[Cossner]

Glortor, are you still mad that 3 years ago you got exposed 10-0 babies for not knowing what the hell you were talking about despite being obnoxiously opinionated?

I read halfway through the diatribe you wrote and I had to stop because of how stupid it was. Just stop. Here's a picture of a snake with a tiny hat:

 

[Matix218]

I don't know what I just read but I now feel the urge to eat some pretzels