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Prevention of Cross-Ups

GamerBlake90

GamerBlake90

Blue Blurs for Life!
Okay...I need advice here.

I don't know if there's already a thread for this topic, so if there is, a moderator is free to close it.

Since the start of the game, I find myself getting hit by the cross-up so much and I have no idea why. For a while I maintain pressure control with low-pokes and then eventually they jump out and combo me to death, even when I'm ducking. I don't know how the attack can still hit when I lower my hitbox. I can understand the jumpkicks hitting crouching opponents, but the cross-up punch? To add insult to injury, it whiffs whenever I try to hit them with the cross-up myself.

And just to quickly define, there is a difference between the jump-in and the cross-up. The jump-ins, I can handle...it's the cross-ups that are confusing me. I don't want to just stand there and block because then they get free meter-building and chip damage, causing your own defense to backfire on you, so I don't consider blocking a good option. I need to find some way to maintain my pressure without revealing an opening for them to take.

This isn't character-specific advice, just to clarify. It's to do with game mechanics. And this particular mechanic is one I've always disagreed with (see my thread about my outlook on MK9 for further details), but am trying to find an answer to.

What does the community offer as advice?
 
Theme

Theme

Kombatant
Your best bet, as ANY character, is a NJP, if you are anticipating another crossup... but that is only if they are being predictable. I cross up a LOT, especially with fast hitting characters like KUNGLAO where you can go in for a full combo punish if they get hit. Another method is the jump away kick. Low pokes also work sometimes, but that depends on the characters with low fast pokes like KL's d1, Kit's d1, Mileena's d4, Reptiles d4, etc.
 
GamerBlake90

GamerBlake90

Blue Blurs for Life!
Theme
Check

I could do a neutral jump-punch, but doesn't a jumpkick beat that? And there are some characters who can start an anti-air combo off a jumpkick or diagonal jump-punch, such as Kitana, Mileena, Scorpion, Kung Lao, etc.

It looks out the risk beats out the benefit from a neutral jump-punch. :(

Now the jumpkick, I had not thought of, so perhaps I could give that a try. I hate having to stand there and block only to eat chip damage and let them get meter. Big no-no there.

As for low-pokes, too often do I try to throw them out wildly and I still eat a fucking cross-up, which makes no sense, LOL.
 
smokey

smokey

EX Ovi should launch
GamerBlake90 said:
Theme
Check

I could do a neutral jump-punch, but doesn't a jumpkick beat that? And there are some characters who can start an anti-air combo off a jumpkick or diagonal jump-punch, such as Kitana, Mileena, Scorpion, Kung Lao, etc.

It looks out the risk beats out the benefit from a neutral jump-punch. :(

Now the jumpkick, I had not thought of, so perhaps I could give that a try. I hate having to stand there and block only to eat chip damage and let them get meter. Big no-no there.

As for low-pokes, too often do I try to throw them out wildly and I still eat a fucking cross-up, which makes no sense, LOL.
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If you have a low hitbox character your D3 will straight up avoid cross up punches, ducking wont do that as the punch hits mid. Many characters have options too, recently have been playing around and if you catch a cross up with a an uppercut you can finish the combo with dash d1~special. For example Cyrax net, Scorpion Spear, Smoke bomb, all of which will combo.

Dont go for uppercuts always though its risky.
 
Gilbagz

Gilbagz

Joker here~
Hate to revive old threads, but i didn't want to create a new thread just for this. And this was more of a universal question so posting it in the Sub question didn't fit.

Anyways, this is my understanding

Cross Up Defence
The main defensive moves to deal with cross ups are the neutral jump punch, sharp jump back kick/punch. You can also time a d+1 if your character has a fast d+1 with a decent hit box.

For a while these worked fine for me, but when the character has a move that leaves them at advantage, their sharp jump kick would always beat all my options, excluding the d+1 obviously.
For characters who can link combos off of these jump kicks it's even worse.
What are my other options to deal with this besides the d+1 because as Sub-Zero mainer, my d+1 sucks for defending the cross up. I feel like my only option is to throw the uppercut, but Sub's uppercut is so damn slow that after a while they'll just blow me up with a full combo for trying. The risk reward seems to be in the other person's favour.
 
Brownie

Brownie

Stay Wet <3
Gilbagz said:
Hate to revive old threads, but i didn't want to create a new thread just for this. And this was more of a universal question so posting it in the Sub question didn't fit.

Anyways, this is my understanding

Cross Up Defence
The main defensive moves to deal with cross ups are the neutral jump punch, sharp jump back kick/punch. You can also time a d+1 if your character has a fast d+1 with a decent hit box.

For a while these worked fine for me, but when the character has a move that leaves them at advantage, their sharp jump kick would always beat all my options, excluding the d+1 obviously.
For characters who can link combos off of these jump kicks it's even worse.
What are my other options to deal with this besides the d+1 because as Sub-Zero mainer, my d+1 sucks for defending the cross up. I feel like my only option is to throw the uppercut, but Sub's uppercut is so damn slow that after a while they'll just blow me up with a full combo for trying. The risk reward seems to be in the other person's favour.
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I was talking to Shoryuken about what he does with Sub for anti cross ups. 22 usually works well, the hitbox for that move hits well above Subs head. Also jump back kick, or dash forward. Those are pretty much Subs only options.
 
D

Death

Warrior
Blake just go for uppercut. Its really reliable and has a good hitbox. You can also do ex cartwheel when someone crosses you up but it cost a meter but still worth it. AA D+1 can be unreliable and even offline AA D1 can be inconsistent cuz of how the D+1 punches downward.
 
GamerBlake90

GamerBlake90

Blue Blurs for Life!
Death said:
Blake just go for uppercut. Its really reliable and has a good hitbox. You can also do ex cartwheel when someone crosses you up but it cost a meter but still worth it. AA D+1 can be unreliable and even offline AA D1 can be inconsistent cuz of how the D+1 punches downward.
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That's Sonya's option. I mean in general, no matter which character I use. Roster whore, I am.
 
Killphil

Killphil

A prop on the stage of life.
What about the instant jump kick? Since like half the cast can do stuff to alter their trajectories anyway you could always input the next move as a back up in case the jump kick misses/you get put in an unfavorable position.
 
Saint

Saint

Kombatant
There are cases where you'd have to be crossed up due to frame disadvantage.

Outside of that, study up on your frame data and poke them out of their block strings. If you know your opponent is gonna cross you up just NJP, they can't afford being punished like that too many times.

You could also dash towards the point from which they jumped and punish, that's a bit more character specific though.
 
GamerBlake90

GamerBlake90

Blue Blurs for Life!
Let me try to outline my situation a little more.

d1 - BLOWN UP BY A FULL COMBO EVERY TIME.

d3 or d4 - well, I could use these to make the cross-up whiff, but then the opponent is right up in my face with the pressure advantage. I want to counter their cross-ups, not make them hit thin air. Also, jumpkicks will stop this and some characters can combo off of one (i.e. Kitana and Mileena, to name a few).

uppercut - obviously this is character-dependent, but most of the time this doesn't work for me.

jumpkick - sometimes this works. Whenever it doesn't, they're on the ground blocking and I get left at disadvantage.

Sometimes I have no choice but to stand there and block because of how a jump-punch can start a combo for increased damage scaling. I have never understood this, nor have I agreed with it. This causes the risk to outweigh the reward by margins. And as we all know, we can't expect to win by simply blocking, because you will eat chip damage and they will gain a shit-ton of meter. Thus this kills your ability to trust your defense.

Worse yet, getting crossed up can fuck your inputs up, especially when you're trying to escape with a Wake-Up. I remember a game in which MK Peanuts beat my Raiden because he crossed me up while I tried to Wake-Up with EX Electric Grab and instead I got an EX Vicinity Blast. Uuuuuuuugh.

So yeah...I hate cross-ups. They are so juvenile.

*end salt-filled rant*
 
RTM2004

RTM2004

Revenant Jade
Sonya Blake said:
d1 - BLOWN UP BY A FULL COMBO EVERY TIME.

Sometimes I have no choice but to stand there and block because of how a jump-punch can start a combo for increased damage scaling. I have never understood this, nor have I agreed with it. This causes the risk to outweigh the reward by margins.

Worse yet, getting crossed up can fuck your inputs up, especially when you're trying to escape with a Wake-Up.

So yeah...I hate cross-ups. They are so juvenile.
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Not sure why jip/cross over jump in punches are overheads. If it wasn't then every jip would miss which might be a good thing. I can't seem to tell you how many times my opponent hop back and forth over my head smacking me into a full combo. It's quite irritating. If your opponent likes to jump a lot, njp is your solution when they are jumping or or to prevent a cross over. Again, online makes it so much worse, it's jump punchers and cross ups all day.. watch a tournament stream jumping gets you killed.

Typically I would D3 to lower your hitbox on the first cross up then jump punch/kick back if they try to cross up the 2nd time. Unless you are Mileena or Sonya with the infamous D4, they can't jump cross up punch successfully but smart opponents will cross over jump kick to deal with their small hitboxes. Basically jump punch/kick backwards out to prevent cross ups in general :)
 
GamerBlake90

GamerBlake90

Blue Blurs for Life!
RTM2004 said:
Not sure why jip/cross over jump in punches are overheads. If it wasn't then every jip would miss which might be a good thing. I can't seem to tell you how many times my opponent hop back and forth over my head smacking me into a full combo. It's quite irritating. If your opponent likes to jump a lot, njp is your solution when they are jumping or or to prevent a cross over. Again, online makes it so much worse, it's jump punchers and cross ups all day.. watch a tournament stream jumping gets you killed.

Typically I would D3 to lower your hitbox on the first cross up then jump punch/kick back if they try to cross up the 2nd time. Unless you are Mileena or Sonya with the infamous D4, they can't jump cross up punch successfully but smart opponents will cross over jump kick to deal with their small hitboxes. Basically jump punch/kick backwards out to prevent cross ups in general :)
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I agree. The concept of jump-ins and cross-ups being overhead is stupid as fuck.

I almost forgot to mention...you could try the neutral jump-punch, but if they see it coming, you're eating a jumpkick which potentially leads to a combo, in which case you'll have wasted your effort.
 
Somberness

Somberness

Lights
I have actually been looking into turning around and it's quite complicated, I'll explain it in the thread I'll be making soon. But I have found something a little useful. If you want to stop a cross up with a standing attack, don't try and move back before you do it because you might turn around slower. Also, switch to player 1 side. :D
 
Garasky

Garasky

Noob
Do you anticipate the crossovers? Maybe your opponent just outplays you. I know online makes a big diff. You have to sorta guess 1/4 a sec beforehand depending on your connection. What I can punish or counter offline doesn't necessary translate to online, from my experiences anyways. Practice with people offline and see your options.
 
Winter

Winter

Alfred Hitchcock reincarnated.
I also have problems with Cross-over punches, I think that you should only deal with them if your expecting it, in which case a NJP will do. If you think you can uppercut, then go for it, it's pretty reliable, If you didn't expect it or didn't react fast enough, don't try the D1, just block. It sucks but it happens.
 
Enigma642

Enigma642

Apprentice
As a kitana player I punish down poke with a 33% combo. Then, after they eat that a couple of times, they usually start low blocking at which point I switch it up to a crossover punch with a full combo or chip damage. I only cross over when I'm at a frame advantage though.
 
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