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General/Other - Jason Voorhees [Pre-XL] My thoughts on the Jason Buffs & What He Really Needs

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REO

Undead
Premium Supporter
First off I'd like to say that I'm pleased with what was given but underwhelmed at how we were given much less than characters such as Quan Chi, D'Vorah, Erron Black, etc. This is not going to be a rant or boohoo thread but instead be about my opinion on the changes he was given and what I think he needs for future patches.


Let's get started:

Jason - Corpse Grab & Corpse Slam now has 10 startup frames (down from 12)

A very minor buff to a special attack that was almost seen as useless pre patch. With the combination of jump attacks receiving a slight nerf this patch, and the start up being slightly increased, I hope I can find more use for this attack at least in some match ups. While I'm a little disappointed nothing worthwhile was done to the EX version, this buff is better than nothing so I'll take it.


Jason (Slasher) - Increased the cancel advantage on Towards+BP by 5

This is actually something that was needed and now gives Jason the ability to go for a safe overhead by using F+2 and linking choke for around 15%. The only issue is I wish this buff was executed better. It would have been amazing if they removed the pushback on block for F+2 so that choke does not whiff so easily at common distances leaving you open for full combo punishes essentially negating the buffs intention. You literally have to be close to breathing on the opponent to make the overhead into choke safe. With Jason's lack of a viable run and slow mobility this is a difficult task to maintain.


Jason (Relentless) - Damned no longer carries over between rounds
&
Jason (Relentless) - Damned increased to 10%/20%/33%/50% damage at under 50%/25%/10%/5% health (up from 3%/7%/12%/18% damage at under 75%/50%/25%/5% health)

This is more of a slight nerf overall in viability and effectiveness of what used to be Jason's best and most consistent feature. Now instead of Jason being a powerhouse in round three with damn near 40% permanent damage increase, he must now lose half of his health in a round to achieve access to these damage buffs that will amplify the closer Jason is to death. Personally I preferred the old Damned because of how unique it was and consistent but I can live with these new changes since it turns Relentless more into clutch factor.


Jason (Unstoppable) - You can now hold down to have Resurrection not trigger after losing all of your health when it is not your final round

This is probably the most important and well thought out buff and I give NRS so much applaud for pulling it off. Unfortunately I really can't see a reason to play this variation over the other two. Not because the buff was bad, but because it didn't address the other main core problems and limitations Unstoppable.


What I think Jason needs and the biggest disappointment was the lack of properly adjusting any of his mid attacks to hit properly. Literally all of his mids can be low profiled:

B+2 is a mid that gets low profiled
B+1 is a mid that gets low profiled
B+3 is a mid that gets low profiled
D,F+1 (choke) is a mid that gets low profiled
D,B,F+2 (tight squeeze) is a mid that gets low profiled
B+1,2 is a mid string that gets low profiled
B+3,1+3 is a mid string that gets low profiled
Even his d+1 mid poke gets low profiled...
And even his OVERHEAD F+3 also gets low profiled...

If you don't believe me on any of the above the easiest way you can test it is by choosing Mileena and mashing D+3 over and over. These are issues vs about half the cast. Now I'm NOT saying you have to make EVERYTHING be a true mid, but can we at least have one or two options to use a true mid when we know someone is mashing a poke to become psuedo invincible?


Buff Wish List:

1.) B+3 should become a true mid and slightly be faster. I believe 9 or 10 start up frames would be perfect for this move.

2.) D,B,F+2 (Tight Squeeze) should become a true mid. Having at least one option we can use as a wake up to get off the ground vs low profilers would make it so we at least can use the wake up system.

3.) Slasher F+2 should have it's pushback removed from block so D,F+1 (choke) 2 in 1 does not whiff so easily.

4.) Slasher F+4 needs a slight increase on range towards it's hitbox so this move CANNOT whiff after landing a properly spaced jump in from Jason's jump in punch 1 & 2. It's not fair to have your successfully spaced jump in follow up whiff on HIT and then be full combo punished for it because they can now block the second part of the F+4,2 string. This is crucial for the effectiveness of Slasher's jump in 50/50 game.


5.) Unstoppable in general:

- D,D+3 (Punishment) is a very laggy damage increasing power up with total frames that rival that of an unblockable attack. This move is extremely difficult to get out in an actual match and pretty much force you to cut combos short in order to even use. The thing that turns me off from Unstoppable is if I want damage, why wouldn't I just choose Relentless for maximum damage or play Slasher if I want meterless damage? I would be a fan of this move if it had less recovery and it would be neat if it did something unique like make Jason build meter on HIT or extra meter gain block if he has this buff active. (Unstoppable is heavily meter dependent with no good ways to build some)

- D,D,4. This move restores very minimal health but the awful recovery makes it counterintuitive to use in a real match at risk of being hit and losing way more health than you would of healed. On top of that, D,D+3 (Punishment) is better to use in nearly every situation when choosing to end combos in a buff because the reward is greater. It would be nice if this move just had better recovery and wasn't so penalizing.

- D,D+4+Block. This EX move is practically useless and heals the same amount of health without any noticable recovery difference. The EX version should heal twice the health back (10%) and recover much faster.


Anyway, that's pretty much everything I wanted to say and I can't wait to see this patch play out.
 
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As negative as REO's review of the patch for Jason was. I am MORE negative.

This patch was garbage for Jason. Sorry but I gotta say it.

  1. They took an excellent, unique, fun idea with damned, and nerfed it and also made it more boring with the new changes.
  2. They really needed to help Jason with low profiling mids, and did absolutely nothing.
  3. Unstoppable needed buffs and not a QOL change.
  4. Being able to choose if you rez or not is a great change, but he needed so much more.
  5. Jason's damage buff still lasts only 4 measly seconds in Unstoppable. Let me remind you that most of the time you can even attempt this move is when the opponent is knocked down full screen. That means you have 4 seconds to run up (with slow run speed) to an opponent, and open them up without a true 50/50 and hope you land the combo within 1 second so the damage buff doesn't fall off WHILE YOU ARE COMBO'ING your opponent.
  6. Not to mention the damage buff isn't even that much in the first place.
  7. there not being a good version of the EX heal in the game is ridiculous. It should heal 10% instead of 5% done faster.
  8. Unstoppable really has no reason for being chosen except for laughs.
  9. Jason vs Quan Chi now has to be unbearable.
  10. I'm probably just grumpy, but not too happy right now.
 

Khaoz77

Don't run, you're gonna trip...
I agree, this patch was def underwhelming, especially since I main Slasher.

A range buff on f+4 would be much needed, the move as slow as it is should have something going for it, I can't even hit this move much anymore since time has been the biggest enemy for Jason in my opinion.
 
Reactions: REO

Eldriken

I smolder with generic rage.
Forum General
As negative as REO's review of the patch for Jason was. I am MORE negative.

This patch was garbage for Jason. Sorry but I gotta say it.

  1. They took an excellent, unique, fun idea with damned, and nerfed it and also made it more boring with the new changes.
  2. They really needed to help Jason with low profiling mids, and did absolutely nothing.
  3. Unstoppable needed buffs and not a QOL change.
  4. Being able to choose if you rez or not is a great change, but he needed so much more.
  5. Jason's damage buff still lasts only 4 measly seconds in Unstoppable. Let me remind you that most of the time you can even attempt this move is when the opponent is knocked down full screen. That means you have 4 seconds to run up (with slow run speed) to an opponent, and open them up without a true 50/50 and hope you land the combo within 1 second so the damage buff doesn't fall off WHILE YOU ARE COMBO'ING your opponent.
  6. Not to mention the damage buff isn't even that much in the first place.
  7. there not being a good version of the EX heal in the game is ridiculous. It should heal 10% instead of 5% done faster.
  8. Unstoppable really has no reason for being chosen except for laughs.
  9. Jason vs Quan Chi now has to be unbearable.
  10. I'm probably just grumpy, but not too happy right now.
You raise all valid points. You're not being grumpy at all.
 
I was hoping the general fixes would of included his mids not always getting low profiled, I'm extremely disappointed with that and the change to Damned. At the end of rounds it's nice and all, but not really a large change from round 3 pre patch damage, and you need 5% health for it. If the mids functioned then we could at least have consistent ways in certain matchups to try and open someone up. It also added a bit of want to close Jason out early to avoid the 3rd round, which was really unique.

We still have a good chunk of our previous strengths, but I just don't understand making Jason slightly worse.
 

REO

Undead
Premium Supporter
I must say it is rather amusing reading other character forums complain about how their run cancels are now plus six instead of +12 on block, how their mids weren't fixed enough (at least they have options to use real mids), and how over 10-20+ buffs given from NRS some how is them getting the shaft... Meanwhile us Jason players are quietly sitting here.

Oh, well. At least mother cares and is happy for us.
 

REDRUM

www.twitter.com/redrum26
I dont get NRS' thinking with Jason.. He needs to dish out a lot more damage... Not sure why a character like Kitana can get 45-50 a touch but Jason struggles for 30. @YOMI REO u dont think Jason needs more damage overall ?
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
I agree w everything Reo said here. Great post w examples all while maintain ain't composure, something I can't do w my dissapointment w Kenshi changes


Especially when it comes to RC nerfs to top tier characters however that's a glitch and getting fixed


Rich keep getting richer
 

REO

Undead
Premium Supporter
so you would say the patch made relentless weaker?
I would say it is a slight nerf to Relentless overall. Because for one, to receive the big damage boosts, you must be under 25% health which is one combo away from being dead territory. This means now it will be possible you will go rounds without receiving a notable damage boost due to just dying prematurely or not being able to live at a sliver of health.

The old Relentless Damned was 100% consistent and had a huge success rate for making Jason hit like a truck on round three. Basically the game changing damage was almost always guaranteed and extremely viable.
 

Eldriken

I smolder with generic rage.
Forum General
I would say it is a slight nerf to Relentless overall. Because for one, to receive the big damage boosts, you must be under 25% health which is one combo away from being dead territory. This means now it will be possible you will go rounds without receiving a notable damage boost due to just dying prematurely or not being able to live at a sliver of health.

The old Relentless Damned was 100% consistent and had a huge success rate for making Jason hit like a truck on round three. Basically the game changing damage was almost always guaranteed and extremely viable.
I went into practice to see the damage and it's great at 5%, but you're merely chip damage away from losing at that point.

I really liked the old one better. But who wouldn't, right? Jason was a force to be reckoned with in the third round, especially if he lost 50%+ health during one of his winning rounds.

It wasn't OP at all or anything. But since it wasn't intentional, it just had to get touched. -.-
 

REO

Undead
Premium Supporter
I went into practice to see the damage and it's great at 5%, but you're merely chip damage away from losing at that point.

I really liked the old one better. But who wouldn't, right? Jason was a force to be reckoned with in the third round, especially if he lost 50%+ health during one of his winning rounds.

It wasn't OP at all or anything. But since it wasn't intentional, it just had to get touched. -.-
Yeah, I'm not sure why they felt the need to change it. It was one of the most unique and awesome concepts I've ever seen in a fighting game before. And it definitely wasn't OP. Who else do you know of who gets stronger as you beat them up progressively each round? It fit Jason so perfect and I'll miss the crowd watching knowing round three is going to be hype as shit with the beatings Jason took previous rounds.

I hope they change it back, honestly. Not all "unintentional bugs" are bad.
 

KeyserSoze

Fabled Villain
Yeah, I'm not sure why they felt the need to change it. It was one of the most unique and awesome concepts I've ever seen in a fighting game before. And it definitely wasn't OP. Who else do you know of who gets stronger as you beat them up progressively each round? It fit Jason so perfect and I'll miss the crowd watching knowing round three is going to be hype as shit with the beatings Jason took previous rounds..
BINGO.

I'm extremely disappointed with the overall "buffs" afforded to Jason.
 

KeyserSoze

Fabled Villain
Jason's passive damage buff was perfect in every conceivable way:

1) It masterfully encapsulated the powerful, 'unstoppable', 'relentless' reputation of the character.

2) It was unique and entirely unlike any other damage buff (that I am aware of), granted to any other character, in any other fighting game.

3) It was extremely effective and provided him with a unique advantage over the rest of the cast, and yet, was far from OP. It was essentially the equivalent of a perfectly implemented trait in Injustice.

And now . . . it's just "meh"

I'm so angry.
 
Well there is a big practice session at GGA tonight. We are gonna put Pig's broadcast on about the patch while we practice. I will try relentless for awhile and see whats up. However last night I am strongly thinking about dropping Jason. I have a personal goal of winning a GBS so I need to start training this game and I don't see Jason being able to keep up now. We have a veteran Street Fighter 4 player going to join our GBS's now and his Quan was already amazing.

At least me and Dizzy are both in the same boat. We didn't like the changes to our main, and we might have to switch.
 

Eldriken

I smolder with generic rage.
Forum General
Well there is a big practice session at GGA tonight. We are gonna put Pig's broadcast on about the patch while we practice. I will try relentless for awhile and see whats up. However last night I am strongly thinking about dropping Jason. I have a personal goal of winning a GBS so I need to start training this game and I don't see Jason being able to keep up now. We have a veteran Street Fighter 4 player going to join our GBS's now and his Quan was already amazing.

At least me and Dizzy are both in the same boat. We didn't like the changes to our main, and we might have to switch.
Jason's my secondary and the change to Damned and a lack of necessary fixes (mids, anyone?) really make me just want to let him go. I don't want to because I really love this character.
 

Eldriken

I smolder with generic rage.
Forum General
I just read that Jason's choke received a stealth nerf. It apparently does 3% less damage now. I know it's only 3%, BUT WTF WASN'T IT DOCUMENTED?
 
Well there is a big practice session at GGA tonight. We are gonna put Pig's broadcast on about the patch while we practice. I will try relentless for awhile and see whats up. However last night I am strongly thinking about dropping Jason. I have a personal goal of winning a GBS so I need to start training this game and I don't see Jason being able to keep up now. We have a veteran Street Fighter 4 player going to join our GBS's now and his Quan was already amazing.

At least me and Dizzy are both in the same boat. We didn't like the changes to our main, and we might have to switch.
Yea I have a tournament on Saturday and I'm probably letting go after that. I'll have him trained up as a secondary, but this is a bit much.
 
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