Question Pot Bonuses - should they reward 1st place LESS?

[Jynks]

CEO and Combo Breaker both have huge 10K Pot Bonuses, ESL has a CRAZY amount of money in it for players.... but I am starting to wonder if in some ways these bonuses are starting to HURT attendance instead of increasing it.

In the age of Foxy and Sonic should Pot Bonuses reward 2nd and 3rd as well as 1st. When the 10K pots started showing up we were getting internationals from all over the place... but how many people, and lest be honest here, just think.. "Well that is 10K into Sonic's pocket" or "Well that is 10K Sterling into Foxy's pocket".

Are players still considering spending 1000s to travel, sometimes over seasons to compete in a event that only really rewards 1st place?

I'm, not saying that 1st place shouldn't reflect that you know.. you came 1st.. but I think that in this particular time in the FGC for NRS games with Foxy and Sonic dominating so completely that maybe we should also be looking at buffing 2nd and 3rd place.

Will HoneyBee and BioHarzard be thinking.. ok .. lets travel from Canada to Combo Breaker? Will Madzin and Nevik come from Europe? On the "off chace" that they can beat Sonic? I understand that there is a competitive edge to the competitive games and people love to compete and p[lay the best, but there is a logistical aspect about just how much travelling costs...

The point of the bonuses is not to buy Sonic and Foxy new cars and pay off their parents mortgages. It is to stimulate larger and attendance at the events and all the things that brings to the event and the game.

I feel that these big bonuses need to be spread out a little to allow people that do very well but do not necessarily come in first get some kind of return on their travel and accommodation expense.

 

[FL Rushdown]

So instead of actually getting good enough to win you just want them to reward the people that lose? Trust me, any serious competitor doesn't think it's sonics money. They want it regardless of what fool they have To shred to get there.

As for just an overall increase to winnings that never hurts.

 

[HeroesNZ]

The main reason people go to tournaments is because they think they can win. If the same people are winning it's up to the losers to step it up instead of fighting over 2nd/3rd place.

 

[Jynks]

The ratio of winning I think it the problem. No one is saying that 1st place shouldn't be worth more, but there should be more focus on 2nd and 3rd as well in my mind. I guarantee that there are pro players thinking.. "well I would go but I can not afford it" good players that can not "bet" that they will win the entire event. Will Kitana Prime travel form one side of the country to the other, I mean we all love him and he is a great player but is he a serious contender for winning the entire event?

My point is that Pot Bonuses are designed to increase attendance and hype... but the pull of players thinking "well I want to win.. but you know if i can get top 5 the pay off is pretty decent as well" rather than the entire bonus just going to one player.

HoneyBee for example was travelling from Canada all the time, and then stopped... not because he stopped liking to play and compete... but i suspect that the cost of travelling was prohibitive with no real returns. (I am guess I do not really know).. BUT if some of that PoT bonus was going to runner ups, maybe the rumination would have keep him as a regular travelling player?

 

[God Confirm]

This isn't meant to be a career

 

[Airvidal]

I see what you're saying. Although you're making it seem like "just because these few players are dominating, let's change the pay outs form"

I agree the format is wrong(Not by much), and it should be looked at, but just because the old format might have been created thinking in smaller amounts of money pots. But not cause Sonic and Foxy keep winning.

 

[Matix218]

1st place should get by far the most, there is not really any question about it.

 

[STB Shujinkydink]

CEO and Combo Breaker both have huge 10K Pot Bonuses, ESL has a CRAZY amount of money in it for players.... but I am starting to wonder if in some ways these bonuses are starting to HURT attendance instead of increasing it.

In the age of Foxy and Sonic should Pot Bonuses reward 2nd and 3rd as well as 1st. When the 10K pots started showing up we were getting internationals from all over the place... but how many people, and lest be honest here, just think.. "Well that is 10K into Sonic's pocket" or "Well that is 10K Sterling into Foxy's pocket".

Are players still considering spending 1000s to travel, sometimes over seasons to compete in a event that only really rewards 1st place?

I'm, not saying that 1st place shouldn't reflect that you know.. you came 1st.. but I think that in this particular time in the FGC for NRS games with Foxy and Sonic dominating so completely that maybe we should also be looking at buffing 2nd and 3rd place.

Will HoneyBee and BioHarzard be thinking.. ok .. lets travel from Canada to Combo Breaker? Will Madzin and Nevik come from Europe? On the "off chace" that they can beat Sonic? I understand that there is a competitive edge to the competitive games and people love to compete and p[lay the best, but there is a logistical aspect about just how much travelling costs...

The point of the bonuses is not to buy Sonic and Foxy new cars and pay off their parents mortgages. It is to stimulate larger and attendance at the events and all the things that brings to the event and the game.

I feel that these big bonuses need to be spread out a little to allow people that do very well but do not necessarily come in first get some kind of return on their travel and accommodation expense.

Very rarely does it go all to first place.

SCR and Combo breaker paid out 50/20/13/7/2 (something like that) to Top 8. Thats how NWM is going to do it as well. Top 8 usually gets paid. At KiT, Top 3 got paid. 1st gets the most cause they earned it, but with big pot bonuses its very rarely winner takes all.

 

[Airvidal]

This isn't meant to be a career

I think it should, that's the dream of all of us that chase/train day in and day out to become a recognized pro player one day. And I think the direction eSports is heading, we're getting there.

 

[haketh]

Personally, when 10K starts getting out there the pot should be spread to Top 7 especialyl at larger tournaments. Keits had a big thing on it & why it should be done I wish I could still find.

 

[God Confirm]

Well, if they want to make it an eSport, yeah they'll stop making crazy imbalanced pot bonuses

 

[GamerBlake90]

Surprisingly, I'm actually on board with this...but not because of @SonicFox5000 and @A F0xy Grampa dominating the scene. I can't speak for everyone, but players like those two ruling the scene would only serve to increase my drive towards bodying everyone.

With player brackets getting increasingly stacked, getting into Top 8 is becoming harder and harder (and rightly so), so it ought to be an achievement to even breach Top 8 territory - although I wouldn't dare make it on par with placing first as it IS meant to stand out, which you acknowledge.

Not sure on how I'd broach this topic, though.

 

[SHAOLIN]

Purely going by what the Op has said...

This is the old school in me that is talking but that's the point of coming in first place, to get that first place prize.

Like there's so many things or should I say so much things that I can say that rebuttals what you're trying to ask for. But I'll stick to this, increase the pot bonus but the first place prize still remains the largest of the top 3 or top 8.

 

[SM StarGazer]

This Thread is a secret conspiracy to get tournament organizers to lower the top bonuses down to second place so sonicfox won't get first.

That's some next-level conspiracy s***.

I love it.

 

[Zoidberg747]

This is what is already done. Pot bonuses are split with 1st getting the most, 2nd getting the 2nd most and so on. Most of the 10k bonuses you are talking about has 1st place only taking half of that. ESL even prevents F0xy and Fox from winning some of the money by keeping them from playing in the challenger cups(since they almost always place in the top 8 of the season cup or whatever its called).

I don't think 2nd or 3rd place deserves any more money. I actually think 1st gets too little, but thats just me.

 

[Sulfur]

 

[Dizzy]

You know 100% doesn't go to 1st place right? I believe for all the 10k pot bonus tournaments 50% goes to 1st place, rest is spread out to the placements below.

 

[Eddy Wang]

@solidsnake

 

[Jynks]

Personally, when 10K starts getting out there the pot should be spread to Top 7 especialyl at larger tournaments.

Surprisingly, I'm actually on board with this...

yeah... I'm not saying that 1st place should not be rewarded but I am saying that these huge pot bonuses should be spread out more. I think it would greatly improve attendance as people will think..

"look it will 2K to fly down and hire a room, but I have a chance to win 5K if I win but you know what I think I am pretty 100% sure to get in top 8 and that will mean the trip will only cost me 500 bucks..... meh.. cool. I can afford that lets go"

Those are just numbers I picked out of my ass but what I am talking about here is remuneration that will encourage people to come. The idea of "winner take all" is a throw back to the smaller local weeklies where all you had to do was walk from the pizza joint to the warehouse or w/e to play. If event organisers expect people to travel and to attract large crowds and top players they need to make it attractive.

I think it would also stimulate new players. The more "e-sport-ish" the game gets the laugher the perceived gap for some people. some new comer might not think they have a chance at 1st, but you never know who is going to run into top 8... why not give it a go... and hey I won something.. wow that was cool.. I'm hooked!

 

[HoneyBee]

HoneyBee for example was travelling from Canada all the time, and then stopped... not because he stopped liking to play and compete... but i suspect that the cost of travelling was prohibitive with no real returns. (I am guess I do not really know).. BUT if some of that PoT bonus was going to runner ups, maybe the rumination would have keep him as a regular travelling player?

Not sure where this notion that I've stopped travelling to tournaments came from. I missed one major tournament recently (Final Round) because it lacked a pot bonus and the cost of flying + hotel + registration + food wasn't worth it to me when I was certain future tournaments will have large pot bonuses. I ended up using the money to go to Hypespotting V in Scotland instead.

yeah... I'm not saying that 1st place should not be rewarded but I am saying that these huge pot bonuses should be spread out more. I think it would greatly improve attendance as people will think..

"look it will 2K to fly down and hire a room, but I have a chance to win 5K if I win but you know what I think I am pretty 100% sure to get in top 8 and that will mean the trip will only cost me 500 bucks..... meh.. cool. I can afford that lets go"

This is roughly how I decided to go to Hypespotting actually lol. I calculated that I needed top 4 to make a profit on the trip which I felt was reasonably attainable for me so I went and ended up getting 2nd

 

[Doombawkz]

Discussions like this are why when I retire I'll maybe become a sponsor.
Players, especially ones whom are at the top and the root of most of the game's development, shouldn't have to decide between paying rent and showing up.

As far as prize pools go, if they dominate then they get rewarded imo. It just sucks for everyone else.

 

[Jynks]

yeah... I'm not saying that 1st place should not be rewarded but I am saying that these huge pot bonuses should be spread out more. I think it would greatly improve attendance as people will think..

"look it will 2K to fly down and hire a room, but I have a chance to win 5K if I win but you know what I think I am pretty 100% sure to get in top 8 and that will mean the trip will only cost me 500 bucks..... meh.. cool. I can afford that lets go"

This is roughly how I decided to go to Hypespotting actually lol. I calculated that I needed top 4 to make a profit on the trip which I felt was reasonably attainable for me so I went and ended up getting 2nd

Yeah, this is what I think as well.. there is simple math going on here dictating who goes and who dosn't.

What I am trying to say (and I know I am not the best communicator) is that the pots need to be spread out in a way that makes it affordable to travel even if you do not get 1st. This will increase attendance, increase quality of players. stimulate international play, improve streams and generally make the events better, for everyone including the organisers.

 

[Nu-Skoool]

You know what? We should hand out participation trophies while we're at it.