Post-Patch Jade Emerald Defender matchups

[GLoRToR]

yup, I'm totally ass just like everyone else who agree with me which is like 99% of the people. as I said, if you can proof that you're able to do it I'll be happy to be proven wrong. until then I'll gladly stay here and call you out on you're idiotic downplay.

Appeal to crowd fallacy when your best argument is that you can't punish 56f with 20f outside the lab.
I was patient with you so far but now's my turn to ask you politely to fuck off and have a nice day.

 

[Blewdew]

Appeal to crowd fallacy when your best argument is that you can't punish 56f with 20f outside the lab.
I was patient with you so far but now's my turn to ask you politely to fuck off and have a nice day.

@The_Tile @Eldriken can you actually punish jades glow on reaction with nomad dash?
@Espio have you come across a kabal player who consistently punished you for activating glow with nomad dash on reaction and not a read?

 

[The_Tile]

@The_Tile @Eldriken can you actually punish jades glow on reaction with nomad dash?
@Espio have you come across a kabal player who consistently punished you for activating glow with nomad dash on reaction and not a read?

No you can't, its a read not reaction.

 

[rainuS]

Obviously you cant it has to be a read.

 

[Espio]

@The_Tile @Eldriken can you actually punish jades glow on reaction with nomad dash?
@Espio have you come across a kabal player who consistently punished you for activating glow with nomad dash on reaction and not a read?

Well, I create many variables during match ups versus good Kabal players. Spark will check nomad dash attempts along with things like when I whiff standing one full screen to make you wonder and cause hesitation. Jade gets 20% punish for a bar too which while not insane damage is enough to discourage it. It's a guess/read for both parties. It's relevant that he can catch you out there doing it, but nothing to shut it down by any means.


This is 5-5, the idea that anyone wins is hard to believe. I feel extremely comfortable in this match up.

 

[GLoRToR]

Well, I create many variables during match ups versus good Kabal players. Spark will check nomad dash attempts along with things like when I whiff standing one full screen to make you wonder and cause hesitation. Jade gets 20% punish for a bar too which while not insane damage is enough to discourage it. It's a guess/read for both parties. It's relevant that he can catch you out there doing it, but nothing to shut it down by any means.


This is 5-5, the idea that anyone wins is hard to believe. I feel extremely comfortable in this match up.

I disagree on the final verdict, but then I don't like the "bo10" matchup assessment.
I agree that Spark is a good way to keep Kabal from dashing; outside the range where it's suicide to use and he can full combo punish you if he blocks it. It's Sub Zero Overhead Speed so someone of Sonic's level can surely react to it.

I don't know about the whiffing a standing 1 thing. It's probably something that works for you, I wouldn't know. Yeah Jade can punish a blocked ND but a decent Kabal won't throw it out like that.

 

[Trini_Bwoi]

Appeal to crowd fallacy when your best argument is that you can't punish 56f with 20f outside the lab.
I was patient with you so far but now's my turn to ask you politely to fuck off and have a nice day.

jade's glow takes 45 frames

6 months straight of complaining about jade and you don't even know her frame data

 

[Eldriken]

You simply cannot react to Glow with Nomad Dash. Simple as that. It's on a read, end of story. lol

 

[THTB]

Reaction punishing isn't impossible. Highly unlikely, though. It's been 4 months, and Kabal players themselves still state that they usually can't, so it's way harder than you'd think. Humans can react pretty well on average, but seeing glow on top of inputting the command on time pushes the limit, generally. And it only gets harder when there isn't dedicated focus to glow.

 

[GLoRToR]

jade's glow takes 45 frames

6 months straight of complaining about jade and you don't even know her frame data

No, it takes 12 frames to start up and THEN 44 frames before you can move.

It's okay, though. Jade is fine. The same fine as Erron, Liu, Geras, Sonya, Jacqui etc. Her frame data is not trash, her damage is great and she's not unsafe. She's fine. The same fine as Erron, Liu, Geras, Sonya, Jacqui, etc.

 

[Trini_Bwoi]

No, it takes 12 frames to start up and THEN 44 frames before you can move.

It's okay, though. Jade is fine. The same fine as Erron, Liu, Geras, Sonya, Jacqui etc. Her frame data is not trash, her damage is great and she's not unsafe. She's fine. The same fine as Erron, Liu, Geras, Sonya, Jacqui, etc.

where are you pulling these made up numbers from. it's 1 frame startup 44 frames recovery.

 

[NYCj360]

I listen to glortor when it comes to matchups despite how negative he may come off to some. I have success with the character but it just might be me outplaying someone with very basic tools. Jade feels basic so far, like everything is built around her playing like guile, without redizzies or high damage. The tools she has are effective but feel stale rather quickly. I'm going to continue labbing out her tactics and matchups to see if there are ways to circumvent the bad situations she finds herself in.

 

[kcd117]

This is my opinion on emerald defender matchups, with Shang being a 4-6 and Nightwolf being a 6-4.

 

[Elias6999]

That's not character relevance. Waz dropped her and KP could be playing Cetrion and roflstomping people. KP plays Edenians religiously and Jade is the better Edenian right now. If Kitana got buffed to top tier he'd drop Jade in a heartbeat. KP is godlike as a player.

Glow is irrelevant against Jax. If you activate it you're giving him 56 frames to move closer. Once Jax is in you're holding that F3 pressure and even his chip is considerable, nevermind if he manages to grab you and put you in the corner. That character has so much comeback potential that Jade's "chip-u-out" strategy requires insanely more effort than how much it takes for Jax to block and advance.

VS jax i react to his projectile with glow, then when he starts to approach with his advancing attacks its easy to keep him at bay.

 

[Elias6999]

View attachment 15771

This is my opinion on emerald defender matchups, with Shang being a 4-6 and Nightwolf being a 6-4.

I’d argue Frost is a bad matchup. DB2 easily locks down Jade and Frost wins upclose.

 

[GLoRToR]

I listen to glortor when it comes to matchups despite how negative he may come off to some. I have success with the character but it just might be me outplaying someone with very basic tools. Jade feels basic so far, like everything is built around her playing like guile, without redizzies or high damage. The tools she has are effective but feel stale rather quickly. I'm going to continue labbing out her tactics and matchups to see if there are ways to circumvent the bad situations she finds herself in.

I really need someone better than myself to look at what Jade can do. I'm trying to learn how and when to jip2 / jback2 people into f2 but j2 is so hard to land.

 

[SonicNinja3532]

I love how Glortor has me on ignore because I call out his stupid shit. There is no point listening to him, he absolutely does not know what he’s talking about, and he’s trying to throw subliminals at me when I made valid points lol. The guy is just trying to find excuses for why he is bad, nothing more, that’s why this matchup chart is way more ass than it should be.

And for everyone else in the thread, glow is not reactable at all lol. Even if it was 56f in total, that’s still hard as hell to punish because of human reaction times, any delay, time to input the move, and the start up of the move+travel time, and then on top of that, actually reacting to a very undistinguishable animation while looking out for other things.
Additionally, I’m pretty sure the startup isn’t 12f+44f recovery, its 44f in total for the whole move, but glow becomes active on the 12th frame.
But yeah, Glortor is a downplaying scrub.

 

[SonicNinja3532]

Well, I create many variables during match ups versus good Kabal players. Spark will check nomad dash attempts along with things like when I whiff standing one full screen to make you wonder and cause hesitation. Jade gets 20% punish for a bar too which while not insane damage is enough to discourage it. It's a guess/read for both parties. It's relevant that he can catch you out there doing it, but nothing to shut it down by any means.


This is 5-5, the idea that anyone wins is hard to believe. I feel extremely comfortable in this match up.

This should be the end of conversation lol. If even you’re saying kabal’s don’t consistently reaction punish you for dash, what does that say about how possible it is. If its something consistent then every kabal should be reaction punishing glow straight away.

 

[Hellbringer]

So just because you have horrible reaction time and you can't do shit in a real match the matchup is automagically even and I'm an idiot.
You need to figure out what a matchup is, homeboy.

You should be the last one to say that. Ever since u got mopped u uninstalled the game and made excuses not to play sets anymore. Your a theory fighter and a bad one at that. Just keep doing what your doing im sure u will figure out why you dont lvl up.

 

[rainuS]

I would sąy its losing mu for kabal but it may be 5-5 no way he is winning this. I play tons of characters and kabal doesnt have easy time with jade.

 

[Espio]

This should be the end of conversation lol. If even you’re saying kabal’s don’t consistently reaction punish you for dash, what does that say about how possible it is. If its something consistent then every kabal should be reaction punishing glow straight away.

I don't get what you mean by "If even you're saying". I feel like I've always been reasonable on match ups and feasibility and especially on characters I play. I'm never on here tripping about characters and what not.

Punishing it is definitely possible as I have been punished for it, it's just not a 10/10 on reaction type of thing obviously. The only way that would be the case is if Jade isn't giving you a lot of variables just like Kabal should be giving you a lot of variables to think about constantly.

Similarly, I've read someone whiffing and punished from far out with shadow kick from Jade or Baraka's overhead. Scouted the person slipping, but sometimes I get neutral ducked and punished in the case of Jade's shadow kick or the opponent blocks my overhead or they just hit me out of it in the case of Baraka Nothing is free and there's a lot of strategy and nuance behind how these games will play out.

Nothing about most match ups is as simple as react and shut it down.

I just dislike how polarizing and childish discourse is because I would love to discuss Jade match ups but never feel like I can because there's too much irrationality floating around so I just don't generally.

 

[SonicNinja3532]

I don't get what you mean by "If even you're saying". I feel like I've always been reasonable on match ups and feasibility and especially on characters I play. I'm never on here tripping about characters and what not.

Punishing it is definitely possible as I have been punished for it, it's just not a 10/10 on reaction type of thing obviously. The only way that would be the case is if Jade isn't giving you a lot of variables just like Kabal should be giving you a lot of variables to think about constantly.

Similarly, I've read someone whiffing and punished from far out with shadow kick from Jade or Baraka's overhead. Scouted the person slipping, but sometimes I get neutral ducked and punished in the case of Jade's shadow kick or the opponent blocks my overhead or they just hit me out of it in the case of Baraka Nothing is free and there's a lot of strategy and nuance behind how these games will play out.

Nothing about most match ups is as simple as react and shut it down.

I just dislike how polarizing and childish discourse is because I would love to discuss Jade match ups but never feel like I can because there's too much irrationality floating around so I just don't generally.

I mean it as to say that if you, a reasonable and realistic player is saying it, it just shows that glortor isn’t aware of the reality of how it works. It wasn’t a diss on you at all, you’re one of the clear minded people on here.

But yeah the point I’m making is in agreement to yours essentially. All these things to look out for mean its hard to read it because of the variables, and its not as simple as a reaction and punish the second glow comes out. You gotta make a read first.

 

[kcd117]

I’d argue Frost is a bad matchup. DB2 easily locks down Jade and Frost wins upclose.

It is listed as her worst matchup.

 

[M.D.]

I was just curious of one thing. I hear this everywhere: "punish glow on reaction".

I find it very weird.

I would have thought that nobody does glow in neutral, why would you do that when you can do it on reaction to any projectile startup and get it out safely before the opponent recovers?

I find it hardly valid as an argument to any discussion, as I think glow should only be done on reaction to projectiles, therefore negating any punish whatsoever, ever.

And yes, I started playing Jade as I find the character atrocious to approach and impossible to beat as Cage, so I wanted to take a look on the other side. And currently it ain't lookin' bright for Jade downplayers i'll tell you that

 

[Vhozite]

Yeah i always glow in reaction to a projectile.

I do get it accidentally when trying to D2 all the fucking time though.