Question - Kenshi Possessed v.s. Kenjutsu

[Fellow_Swordsman]

Forgive me if this is an incredibly stupid question (probably not as stupid as the sea of other threads on TYM), but I'm just wondering what Kenjutsu has over Possesed. Kenjutsu is all about the 50/50's, but Possessed has those as well, except they're safe. Kenjutsu can play decent spacing with tele-push and the full screen choke, but Possessed also does a fairly well job of this. All I can think of is that Kenjutsu gets more damage off of armored reversals, but you get nothing off of ex df1 if you catch an opponent in the air. Plus ex db1 is a garbage "anti-air", and ex db4 can get armor broken easily. So why should I consider playing Kenjutsu as opposed to Possessed? I'm just wondering if any fellow Kenshi players can help this noob learn stuff.

 

[ismael4790]

Forgive me if this is an incredibly stupid question (probably not as stupid as the sea of other threads on TYM), but I'm just wondering what Kenjutsu has over Possesed. Kenjutsu is all about the 50/50's, but Possessed has those as well, except they're safe. Kenjutsu can play decent spacing with tele-push and the full screen choke, but Possessed also does a fairly well job of this. All I can think of is that Kenjutsu gets more damage off of armored reversals, but you get nothing off of ex df1 if you catch an opponent in the air. Plus ex db1 is a garbage "anti-air", and ex db4 can get armor broken easily. So why should I consider playing Kenjutsu as opposed to Possessed? I'm just wondering if any fellow Kenshi players can help this noob learn stuff.

I mainly play Balanced, but also play the other two variations, so I'll give my view.

Kenjutsu has better meterless damage, whereas Possessed lacks a bit at this area. Also imo Kenjutsu's zoning might be a bit better, considering his bf3 does a respectable 13% damage, and that bf3 in possessed has annoying whiffing issues vs running opponents; at least he has the nice teleport. Kenjutsu's push has godlike pushback, Possessed one is good though.

One problem of Kenjutsu is that although he has 50/50s they are pretty unsafe. Possessed ones are not, but only one of the options, the low, leads to big damage. Possessed has better "pressure" now with his jailing teleport. One of the few things I don't like about Possessed is that he only gets 19% when doing reversal from exdb1.

Both variations are pretty good and viable since last patch, picking one or another will depend on the matchup.
Balanced is only for loyalists, and maybe for some few select matchups.

 

[Fellow_Swordsman]

I mainly play Balanced, but also play the other two variations, so I'll give my view.

Kenjutsu has better meterless damage, whereas Possessed lacks a bit at this area. Also imo Kenjutsu zoning is better, considering his bf3 does a respectable 13% damage, and that bf3 in possessed has annoying whiffing issues vs running opponents; at least he has the nice teleport. Kenjutsu's push has godlike pushback, Possessed one is good though.

One problem of Kenjutsu is that although he has 50/50s they are pretty unsafe. Possessed ones are not, but only one of the options, the low, leads to big damage. Possessed has better "pressure" now with his jailing teleport. One of the few things I don't like about Possessed is that he only gets 19% when doing reversal from exdb1.

Both variations are pretty good and viable since last patch, picking one or another will depend on the matchup.
Balanced is only for loyalists, and maybe for some few select matchups.

Thank you for your insight. Yes, the whiffing on bf3 against running opponents in Possessed gets me killed a lot, and I find it annoying. And yes, that's kind of where my argument started. Kenjutsu is about the 50/50's and spacing, but you seriously have to commit to exdf1, which is unsafe, but Possessed has SAFE 50/50's, and pretty decent spacing as well. Either way though, both variations are definitely good on their own.
Oh, and I love being called a "spammy no skill bitch" by people who get bodied by my Balanced, yet they never neutral duck a single tele-flurry LOLZ

 

[Phosferrax]

I mainly play Balanced, but also play the other two variations, so I'll give my view.

Kenjutsu has better meterless damage, whereas Possessed lacks a bit at this area. Also imo Kenjutsu's zoning might be a bit better, considering his bf3 does a respectable 13% damage, and that bf3 in possessed has annoying whiffing issues vs running opponents; at least he has the nice teleport. Kenjutsu's push has godlike pushback, Possessed one is good though.

One problem of Kenjutsu is that although he has 50/50s they are pretty unsafe. Possessed ones are not, but only one of the options, the low, leads to big damage. Possessed has better "pressure" now with his jailing teleport. One of the few things I don't like about Possessed is that he only gets 19% when doing reversal from exdb1.

Both variations are pretty good and viable since last patch, picking one or another will depend on the matchup.
Balanced is only for loyalists, and maybe for some few select matchups.

Only one of Kenjutsu's 50/50's is unsafe.

 

[coconutshrimp]

I don't prefer Kenjutsu but people play that cause shit tends to whiff a lot in Possessed. BF3 in particular can be ran through, the low demon has no air hitbox, and against some characters DB1 and EX DB1 can whiff causing you to get punished major. Also Kenjutsu gets more damage off the 50/50s and has an overhead starter, while Possessed 50/50s don't do much damage except for EX Low, and the regular DF4 is only +2 on hit, maybe slightly more plus but not double digits. But even with the low damage 50/50s a lot of the time you can still get an offense goingsafer and not like they can do anything about it in the corner.

 

[coconutshrimp]

Only one of Kenjutsu's 50/50's is unsafe.

PLS splain

 

[Lokheit]

I mainly play Balanced, but also play the other two variations, so I'll give my view.

Kenjutsu has better meterless damage, whereas Possessed lacks a bit at this area. Also imo Kenjutsu's zoning might be a bit better, considering his bf3 does a respectable 13% damage, and that bf3 in possessed has annoying whiffing issues vs running opponents; at least he has the nice teleport. Kenjutsu's push has godlike pushback, Possessed one is good though.

I want to add that in favor of Possesed against Kenjutsu, its BF3 is a Mid instead of a high and he also has the falling summons for zoning while Kenjutsu only long range tool is a High (you duck and Kejutsu can't touch you from mid to max range), it's whiff recovery isn't exactly good and even if it's 13 damage, it leaves opponents in a range close enough to punish you easier if you mess your next BF3, but far enough to be out of your BF2 push. I'm even starting to end my combos in the less damaging DF1 because it's a HKD that leaves opponent at a more advantageous distance.

 

[ismael4790]

Only one of Kenjutsu's 50/50's is unsafe.

The launchers db1 and df1 (regular and ex) that are used after b3 or f2 are respectively -12 and -10.
All his other specials are also unsafe, even his push is, alothough visually it looks safe.

 

[ismael4790]

I don't prefer Kenjutsu but people play that cause shit tends to whiff a lot in Possessed. BF3 in particular can be ran through, the low demon has no air hitbox, and against some characters DB1 and EX DB1 can whiff causing you to get punished major. Also Kenjutsu gets more damage off the 50/50s and has an overhead starter, while Possessed 50/50s don't do much damage except for EX Low, and the regular DF4 is only +2 on hit, maybe slightly more plus but not double digits. But even with the low damage 50/50s a lot of the time you can still get an offense goingsafer and not like they can do anything about it in the corner.

By the way, with Possessed now, is there a consistent way to keep position while doing a teleport into jp1/2 when your enemy is cornered?

 

[Phosferrax]

The launchers db1 and df1 (regular and ex) that are used after b3 or f2 are respectively -12 and -10.
All his other specials are also unsafe, even his push is, alothough visually it looks safe.

B3 shouldn't be canceled into db1, it should be hitconfirmed from b32 which is safe.

There is no need to cancel the low when the 50/50 comes from the first hit, not the second.

 

[coconutshrimp]

By the way, with Possessed now, is there a consistent way to keep position while doing a teleport into jp1/2 when your enemy is cornered?

Depends on the string. The only strings that switch position from what I JUST tested is 3... String, F2 Tele. I'll test 44 and such but the main ones you'll be using, 421 tele and B1 tele when you ji1/2 it leaves your opponent still in the corner and keeps position.

 

[ismael4790]

B3 shouldn't be canceled into db1, it should be hitconfirmed from b32 which is safe.

There is no need to cancel the low when the 50/50 comes from the first hit, not the second.

b32 into db1 does not allow to follow up with a combo. b32 exdf1 does not allow to follow up with a combo either because exdf1 does not recapture.

You play Kenjutsu?

 

[Fellow_Swordsman]

I don't prefer Kenjutsu but people play that cause shit tends to whiff a lot in Possessed. BF3 in particular can be ran through, the low demon has no air hitbox, and against some characters DB1 and EX DB1 can whiff causing you to get punished major. Also Kenjutsu gets more damage off the 50/50s and has an overhead starter, while Possessed 50/50s don't do much damage except for EX Low, and the regular DF4 is only +2 on hit, maybe slightly more plus but not double digits. But even with the low damage 50/50s a lot of the time you can still get an offense goingsafer and not like they can do anything about it in the corner.

Yeah, that's why I honestly think Possessed is better than Kenjutsu. Yes, your 50/50's are less damaging in Possessed, but almost everyone is going to block low because they don't want to get hit by the ex low, so the damage off of landing df4 plenty of times adds up. You can make the argument that Kenjutsu has better zoning, but you're going to eat a run in into pressure for whiffing a single bf3.

 

[Phosferrax]

b32 into db1 does not allow to follow up with a combo. b32 exdf1 does not allow to follow up with a combo either because exdf1 does not recapture.

You play Kenjutsu?

Ex bf4 is the hit confirm.

 

[ismael4790]

Ex bf4 is the hit confirm.

You probably mean exdb4. That's if you have meter.

Meterless, his 50/50s starter to decent combos are unsafe.

 

[coconutshrimp]

Yeah, that's why I honestly think Possessed is better than Kenjutsu. Yes, your 50/50's are less damaging in Possessed, but almost everyone is going to block low because they don't want to get hit by the ex low, so the damage off of landing df4 plenty of times adds up. You can make the argument that Kenjutsu has better zoning, but you're going to eat a run in into pressure for whiffing a single bf3.

Yeah pretty much, and your Push is safer in Possessed being -11 and EX Push has MASSIVE pushback and is -9 to Kenjutsu EX Push still being -13. And once they start blocking overhead you can either go for your -6 low/EX Low, or go for your +5 overhead and bait or go in for pressure. Tele stuff is also really good.

 

[Phosferrax]

You probably mean exdb4. That's if you have meter.

Meterless, his 50/50s starter to decent combos are unsafe.

Yes, my apologies I meant db4.

And if you don't have meter, then don't do the OH, or just just do b2~push. No need to put yourself at risk like that.

 

[ismael4790]

Yes, my apologies I meant db4.

And if you don't have meter, then don't do the OH, or just just do b2~push. No need to put yourself at risk like that.

Yeah, small combos can be done safeish (push is not safe really, but meh, very few people punishes it unless it's done in the face). But if you want to get the good damage you have to take the risk.

 

[Phosferrax]

Yeah, small combos can be done safeish (push is not safe really, but meh, very few people punishes it unless it's done in the face). But if you want to get the good damage you have to take the risk.

But you only ever have to take the risk on the OH. I literally never go for a yolo 50/50 when I don't have meter, because why bother? The risk/reward isn't in your favour without meter anyway.

 

[Fellow_Swordsman]

Yeah, small combos can be done safeish (push is not safe really, but meh, very few people punishes it unless it's done in the face). But if you want to get the good damage you have to take the risk.

True. I believe only moves like a Sub Zero slide can punish a max ranged blocked tele-push in Kenjutsu. Plus, both the overhead and low options in Possessed are safe, and the the ex low launches and is also safe, so there's less risk to playing Possessed, other than people armoring through your strings into a 50/50.

 

[PPJ]

they both good

 

[Fellow_Swordsman]

they both good

And Balanced still sucks :,(

 

[ismael4790]

And Balanced still sucks :,(

I still don't understand that great fear nrs seems to have to buff his main specials.

He's the variation less benefited by b1 buff, and the new parry is nice but nothing game changing.
For example he would have needed a safer push, + on block expush, better recovery on teleflurry, a purpose to ex teleflurry (new function, maybe all hits coming out on block?) better overhead slice (-1 on hit now...please xD), the ex one allowing to combo, and more strings not being interruptible after canceled into overhead slice.

 

[PPJ]

don't think balanced "sucks" but i do think its probably the worst of the 3

 

[Fellow_Swordsman]

I still don't understand that great fear nrs seems to have to buff his main specials.

He's the variation less benefited by b1 buff, and the new parry is nice but nothing game changing.
For example he would have needed a safer push, + on block expush, better recovery on teleflurry, a purpose to ex teleflurry (new function, maybe all hits coming out on block?) better overhead slice (-1 on hit now...please xD), the ex one allowing to combo, and more strings not being interruptible after canceled into overhead slice.

Or just bring back MK 9 Kenshi