Poison Ivy OH/Low Corner 50/50

[HeroesNZ]

Not sure if it's known but I haven't seen anything on it in the forums so I thought I'd post it anyway:

The OH leaves you plus, the low is unsafe unless the opponent hasn't labbed it in which case it'll seem plus. The standing 2 jails after standing 2 on hit.

 

[Vengeance135]

God I swear she's better then people think.

Oh don't mind me I'm just a Joker player look at your tech to know how to escape it

 

[omooba]

wow that's pretty good. haven't seen it at all

 

[Groove Heaven]

I had been resetting in the corner with 2 but I actually didn't know you had time to get trait out.

That mixup is godlike, really nice stuff.

 

[scootleberry]

Excuse my ignorance, it's a 50/50 because your opponent is forced to block because the trait is causing them to lockdown and not press a button right?

 

[Roy Arkon]

Excuse my ignorance, it's a 50/50 because your opponent is forced to block because the trait is causing them to lockdown and not press a button right?

No, it's a semi-pseudo 50/50 because at one scenario Ivy attacks with the full string of 2,1,3 which is a Mid, Low, Overhead string, and in the second scenario Ivy cancels the 2,1 part of the string into Datura Hammer (D, D + 1) and gose for the Low version afterwards.

But here is the thing @HeroesNZ, this is only a semi-pseudo 50/50 because in a real 50/50, you don't cancel a string to a stance move like Datura Hammer to get one of the options (overhead or low) while for the other option you just go for the full string. Even in a pseudo 50/50 you take a string that can be split into two options without using any other extra move to create one of the options. If the Datura Hammer had both an Overhead and a Low, then you would be able to cancel the string into the Datura Hammer and go for either option and that would be a pseudo 50/50.

An example of a pseudo 50/50 is that in MKX, Ninjutsu Scorpion has a 2,1,2 string, with the second 2 being an Overhead with the 1 can be canceled into Takedown which is a low. That way you go to either an Overhead or a Low with the exact same amount of hits and inputs before you go to the splited scenario.

A real, true 50/50 is when a character has both a Low and Overhead starter option that can start a combo, as that the first hit itself is already enough on it's own to be splited into 2 options, even if one option or even both can lead to just a small amount of damage. In MKX, Reptile has the B2 Overhead that can lead to a combo with B2,1 mid-screen or with either F412 or 414 in the corner, while also have B3 Low that can lead to a full combo if you have meter or just go for 4 to have a string is safe and very powerful for just one string.

As for Poison Ivy in IJ2, the only way she can have a real true 50/50 is if she picks between F3 (Overhead) or B1 (Low), but the F3 is very slow and can't lead to a full string or be special canceled like B1. So while it is technically her true 50/50, it is not a good one. In MKX, Liu Kang has and B2 (Overhead) and F4 (Low), with only the F4 can lead to a string or be special canceled while B2 can't do either, but Liu Kang's B2 in MKX is way faster then Ivy's F3 in IJ2. So even though just option for him can lead to a very small amount of damage, it is a true 50/50 that is still good as both options are fast enough.

Also for Ivy, she can't go for a pseudo 50/50 either as she has no string that can be split into two different options of Overhead and Low and she has no special that hits either Overhead or Low, except the Datura Kick from the Datura Hammer stance in which she has to go for that stance first before going to the Datura Kick.

All this combo does is just pressure. That's not to say that it isn't a good pressure, but a 50/50 it's not.

 

[HeroesNZ]

No, it's a semi-pseudo 50/50 because at one scenario Ivy attacks with the full string of 2,1,3 which is a Mid, Low, Overhead string, and in the second scenario Ivy cancels the 2,1 part of the string into Datura Hammer (D, D + 1) and gose for the Low version afterwards.

But here is the thing @HeroesNZ, this is only a semi-pseudo 50/50 because in a real 50/50, you don't cancel a string to a stance move like Datura Hammer to get one of the options (overhead or low) while for the other option you just go for the full string. Even in a pseudo 50/50 you take a string that can be split into two options without using any other extra move to create one of the options. If the Datura Hammer had both an Overhead and a Low, then you would be able to cancel the string into the Datura Hammer and go for either option and that would be a pseudo 50/50.

An example of a pseudo 50/50 is that in MKX, Ninjutsu Scorpion has a 2,1,2 string, with the second 2 being an Overhead with the 1 can be canceled into Takedown which is a low. That way you go to either an Overhead or a Low with the exact same amount of hits and inputs before you go to the splited scenario.

A real, true 50/50 is when a character has both a Low and Overhead starter option that can start a combo, as that the first hit itself is already enough on it's own to be splited into 2 options, even if one option or even both can lead to just a small amount of damage. In MKX, Reptile has the B2 Overhead that can lead to a combo with B2,1 mid-screen or with either F412 or 414 in the corner, while also have B3 Low that can lead to a full combo if you have meter or just go for 4 to have a string is safe and very powerful for just one string.

As for Poison Ivy in IJ2, the only way she can have a real true 50/50 is if she picks between F3 (Overhead) or B1 (Low), but the F3 is very slow and can't lead to a full string or be special canceled like B1. So while it is technically her true 50/50, it is not a good one. In MKX, Liu Kang has and B2 (Overhead) and F4 (Low), with only the F4 can lead to a string or be special canceled while B2 can't do either, but Liu Kang's B2 in MKX is way faster then Ivy's F3 in IJ2. So even though just option for him can lead to a very small amount of damage, it is a true 50/50 that is still good as both options are fast enough.

Also for Ivy, she can't go for a pseudo 50/50 either as she has no string that can be split into two different options of Overhead and Low and she has no special that hits either Overhead or Low, except the Datura Kick from the Datura Hammer stance in which she has to go for that stance first before going to the Datura Kick.

All this combo does is just pressure. That's not to say that it isn't a good pressure, but a 50/50 it's not.

It's a 50/50 because 213 is an unreactable (or at least hard to react to, need to check the frames) overhead and Datura 3 is an unreactable low. You can also use F213 and that's definitely a 50/50.

 

[Blewdew]

It's a 50/50 because 213 is an unreactable (or at least hard to react to, need to check the frames) overhead and Datura 3 is an unreactable low. You can also use F213 and that's definitely a 50/50.

Was gonna say the same. Doesn't matter if it's a starter, string or Special of you can't react to the mix and Need to guess it's a 50/50.

 

[Roy Arkon]

It's a 50/50 because 213 is an unreactable (or at least hard to react to, need to check the frames) overhead and Datura 3 is an unreactable low. You can also use F213 and that's definitely a 50/50.

Was gonna say the same. Doesn't matter if it's a starter, string or Special of you can't react to the mix and Need to guess it's a 50/50.

Of course that it doesn't matter if it's a starter, string or special, but a 50/50 is a 50/50 not because it's not reactable. A 50/50 can be somewhat reactable from one option or even both. For example, Shinnok in MKX has a B3 Overhead and an F4 Low. The F4 is super fast, but the B3 is pretty slow and can be fuzzy guard, yet both options can lead to full combo. So that's a legit 50/50.

The reason this is very particular tech with Ivy is hard to react to is because that Night Shade keeps Poison Ivy plus enough for her to keep attacking, but it's not a 50/50 on it's on like an a regular 50/50. Also, I've noticed now that on the first combo, the Down sign can be seen near Batman. I know that IJ2 has no block button and you need to press Down to block Lows or Back to block Highs, Mids and Overheads, but did you set Batman to auto block both options in both scenarios?

Now don't get me wrong this tech does look excellent, I just wanna get it clear, that's all.

 

[HeroesNZ]

Of course that it doesn't matter if it's a starter, string or special, but a 50/50 is a 50/50 not because it's not reactable. A 50/50 can be somewhat reactable from one option or even both. For example, Shinnok in MKX has a B3 Overhead and an F4 Low. The F4 is super fast, but the B3 is pretty slow and can be fuzzy guard, yet both options can lead to full combo. So that's a legit 50/50.

The reason this is very particular tech with Ivy is hard to react to is because that Night Shade keeps Poison Ivy plus enough for her to keep attacking, but it's not a 50/50 on it's on like an a regular 50/50. Also, I've noticed now that on the first combo, the Down sign can be seen near Batman. I know that IJ2 has no block button and you need to press Down to block Lows or Back to block Highs, Mids and Overheads, but did you set Batman to auto block both options in both scenarios?

Now don't get me wrong this tech does look excellent, I just wanna get it clear, that's all.

Shinnok's 50/50 can't be fuzzied because he can delay the low. It doesn't have to lead to a combo to be a 50/50, it just has to be unreactable.

Batman is ducking to show that S2 jails and because you should always be ducking against Ivy anyway.

 

[Baconlord]

No, it's a semi-pseudo 50/50 because at one scenario Ivy attacks with the full string of 2,1,3 which is a Mid, Low, Overhead string, and in the second scenario Ivy cancels the 2,1 part of the string into Datura Hammer (D, D + 1) and gose for the Low version afterwards.

But here is the thing @HeroesNZ, this is only a semi-pseudo 50/50 because in a real 50/50, you don't cancel a string to a stance move like Datura Hammer to get one of the options (overhead or low) while for the other option you just go for the full string. Even in a pseudo 50/50 you take a string that can be split into two options without using any other extra move to create one of the options. If the Datura Hammer had both an Overhead and a Low, then you would be able to cancel the string into the Datura Hammer and go for either option and that would be a pseudo 50/50.

An example of a pseudo 50/50 is that in MKX, Ninjutsu Scorpion has a 2,1,2 string, with the second 2 being an Overhead with the 1 can be canceled into Takedown which is a low. That way you go to either an Overhead or a Low with the exact same amount of hits and inputs before you go to the splited scenario.

A real, true 50/50 is when a character has both a Low and Overhead starter option that can start a combo, as that the first hit itself is already enough on it's own to be splited into 2 options, even if one option or even both can lead to just a small amount of damage. In MKX, Reptile has the B2 Overhead that can lead to a combo with B2,1 mid-screen or with either F412 or 414 in the corner, while also have B3 Low that can lead to a full combo if you have meter or just go for 4 to have a string is safe and very powerful for just one string.

As for Poison Ivy in IJ2, the only way she can have a real true 50/50 is if she picks between F3 (Overhead) or B1 (Low), but the F3 is very slow and can't lead to a full string or be special canceled like B1. So while it is technically her true 50/50, it is not a good one. In MKX, Liu Kang has and B2 (Overhead) and F4 (Low), with only the F4 can lead to a string or be special canceled while B2 can't do either, but Liu Kang's B2 in MKX is way faster then Ivy's F3 in IJ2. So even though just option for him can lead to a very small amount of damage, it is a true 50/50 that is still good as both options are fast enough.

Also for Ivy, she can't go for a pseudo 50/50 either as she has no string that can be split into two different options of Overhead and Low and she has no special that hits either Overhead or Low, except the Datura Kick from the Datura Hammer stance in which she has to go for that stance first before going to the Datura Kick.

All this combo does is just pressure. That's not to say that it isn't a good pressure, but a 50/50 it's not.

Um a 50/50 just means you have to guess between two options. It doesn't matter at what point you have to guess it just matters that you have to guess. And the trait is not out for pressure. S2 is already plus as hell on hit. The trait is simply so he can combo off the low option

 

[Baconlord]

Excuse my ignorance, it's a 50/50 because your opponent is forced to block because the trait is causing them to lockdown and not press a button right?

No it's a 50/50 because you have to guess between 213 which is high low overhead and 21 dautra 3 which is high low low. The trait is not meant for pressure since the s2 is guaranteed after the s2 hit. All the trait does is make it so he can get a follow up after the low

 

[Bruno-NeoSpace]

Legit stuff. I dig it.

 

[Roy Arkon]

Shinnok's 50/50 can't be fuzzied because he can delay the low. It doesn't have to lead to a combo to be a 50/50, it just has to be unreactable.

Batman is ducking to show that S2 jails and because you should always be ducking against Ivy anyway.

I said that Shinnok's F4 Overhead can be fuzzy guard, not the B3 Low, that Low can't be fuzzy guard. Also I've already that a 50/50 doesn't need to go for a full combo from both sides and it is possible for a 50/50 to lead to it from just one option, just look at my example of Liu Kang.

Um a 50/50 just means you have to guess between two options. It doesn't matter at what point you have to guess it just matters that you have to guess. And the trait is not out for pressure. S2 is already plus as hell on hit. The trait is simply so he can combo off the low option

As I've said earlier there are pseudo 50/50 like Scorpion's 212 string and 21 into Takedown, so I know it doesn't matter at which point you have to predict on how to block.

That being said, after you've explained to me about S2 being super plus, I think that now I understand why this is a 50/50. Thx for the explanation.

 

[Baconlord]

I said that Shinnok's F4 Overhead can be fuzzy guard, not the B3 Low, that Low can't be fuzzy guard. Also I've already that a 50/50 doesn't need to go for a full combo from both sides and it is possible for a 50/50 to lead to it from just one option, just look at my example of Liu Kang.



As I've said earlier there are pseudo 50/50 like Scorpion's 212 string and 21 into Takedown, so I know it doesn't matter at which point you have to predict on how to block.

That being said, after you've explained to me about S2 being super plus, I think that now I understand why this is a 50/50. Thx for the explanation.

What the fuck is a pseudo 50/50. Scorpions 212 and 21 takedown is a guess so it's a 50/50. No other factors matter. The only thing important is that you have to guess between two options. If that requirment is filed then it is a 50/50

 

[Roy Arkon]

What the fuck is a pseudo 50/50. Scorpions 212 and 21 takedown is a guess so it's a 50/50. No other factors matter. The only thing important is that you have to guess between two options. If that requirment is filed then it is a 50/50

It's a pseudo 50/50 because the guess doesn't come at the first hit and neither scenario can lead to more hits afterwards. @PND_Ketchup said it himself when he made a guide on Ninjutsu Scorpion a year ago. It's still a 50/50 nonetheless.

 

[ATP2014]

This setup allows you to get a full combo off both the low and OH options, which are both unreactable and inescapable outside of pushblock.

Not sure what you are arguing here.

 

[Roy Arkon]

This setup allows you to get a full combo off both the low and OH options, which are both unreactable and inescapable outside of pushblock.

Not sure what you are arguing here.

As I've said I now understand why this is a 50/50.

 

[xKhaoTik]

@HeroesNZ i thought I told you to shhh!!!

Lol but seriously, I like this a lot. Sucks that pushblock will body this tho

 

[Reauxbot]

No, it's a semi-pseudo 50/50 because at one scenario Ivy attacks with the full string of 2,1,3 which is a Mid, Low, Overhead string, and in the second scenario Ivy cancels the 2,1 part of the string into Datura Hammer (D, D + 1) and gose for the Low version afterwards.

But here is the thing @HeroesNZ, this is only a semi-pseudo 50/50 because in a real 50/50, you don't cancel a string to a stance move like Datura Hammer to get one of the options (overhead or low) while for the other option you just go for the full string. Even in a pseudo 50/50 you take a string that can be split into two options without using any other extra move to create one of the options. If the Datura Hammer had both an Overhead and a Low, then you would be able to cancel the string into the Datura Hammer and go for either option and that would be a pseudo 50/50.

An example of a pseudo 50/50 is that in MKX, Ninjutsu Scorpion has a 2,1,2 string, with the second 2 being an Overhead with the 1 can be canceled into Takedown which is a low. That way you go to either an Overhead or a Low with the exact same amount of hits and inputs before you go to the splited scenario.

A real, true 50/50 is when a character has both a Low and Overhead starter option that can start a combo, as that the first hit itself is already enough on it's own to be splited into 2 options, even if one option or even both can lead to just a small amount of damage. In MKX, Reptile has the B2 Overhead that can lead to a combo with B2,1 mid-screen or with either F412 or 414 in the corner, while also have B3 Low that can lead to a full combo if you have meter or just go for 4 to have a string is safe and very powerful for just one string.

As for Poison Ivy in IJ2, the only way she can have a real true 50/50 is if she picks between F3 (Overhead) or B1 (Low), but the F3 is very slow and can't lead to a full string or be special canceled like B1. So while it is technically her true 50/50, it is not a good one. In MKX, Liu Kang has and B2 (Overhead) and F4 (Low), with only the F4 can lead to a string or be special canceled while B2 can't do either, but Liu Kang's B2 in MKX is way faster then Ivy's F3 in IJ2. So even though just option for him can lead to a very small amount of damage, it is a true 50/50 that is still good as both options are fast enough.

Also for Ivy, she can't go for a pseudo 50/50 either as she has no string that can be split into two different options of Overhead and Low and she has no special that hits either Overhead or Low, except the Datura Kick from the Datura Hammer stance in which she has to go for that stance first before going to the Datura Kick.

All this combo does is just pressure. That's not to say that it isn't a good pressure, but a 50/50 it's not.

Who the hell cares about all that information when you're sitting in the corner blocking all that madness?
This is mixups at its finest.
Good work. And I don't even play ivy.

 

[9_Lives]

What kind of followup from the trait happens if they pushblock the first two hits to get out of the guess? Like just the projectile or full combo?

 

[Baconlord]

What kind of followup from the trait happens if they pushblock the first two hits to get out of the guess? Like just the projectile or full combo?

Trait goes away on pushback

 

[just_2swift]

Not sure if it's known but I haven't seen anything on it in the forums so I thought I'd post it anyway:

The OH leaves you plus, the low is unsafe unless the opponent hasn't labbed it in which case it'll seem plus. The standing 2 jails after standing 2 on hit.

Nice job mate.

 

[Roy Arkon]

Who the hell cares about all that information when you're sitting in the corner blocking all that madness?
This is mixups at its finest.
Good work. And I don't even play ivy.

Maybe you don't care, but I do, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Regardless I understand now why this us a 50/50.