Please change command grab input for alternate controls

[Balltillyoufall]

I have practiced doing command grabs with bane for hours a day since this games release with alternate controls and I get a forward 3 overhead at LEAST 50% of the time. All I'm asking is for the input to be a bit more lenient on alternate controls. Alternate controls are supposed to make people coming from other fighting game backgrounds feel more comfortable but it's actually more complex.

I love this game but it is highly frustrating to go a for a tick throw set up and i see bane do a slow front flip onto the ground in front of my opponent. I could have horrible execution but to me at least the alternate control inputs for command grabs feel wildly inconsistent.

I doubt anything will change but maybe I can see if others are having similar problems or at the very least get advice.

 

[Shaka]

Change it for regular controllers too. awkward dfb, dbf inputs shouldn't exist.

 

[Eddy Wang]

dbf is way too awkward imo.
fdb is still better.

 

[Afk Skinny]

I got used to it for Cheetah at least, but seriously, i feel like a half circle input would feel so much more better

 

[Red Reaper]

What's the input in alternate kontrols? People that play Guilty Gear would probably be used to half circle back then forward since I've seen some characters have that input in that game.

 

[Eddy Wang]

I got used to it for Cheetah at least, but seriously, i feel like a half circle input would feel so much more better

That's if there isn't any other command attached to this button like a DB, you know NRS games input window and how they behave tho.

If youre shimmying and you do a DB with a similar special, chances are you will get the command grab, so its something to be looked at carefully

 

[Balltillyoufall]

What's the input in alternate kontrols? People that play Guilty Gear would probably be used to half circle back then forward since I've seen some characters have that input in that game.

Down, down back, back, forward

 

[EntropicByDesign]

I dont understand alt controls.. They add diagonal inputs into the required inputs for moves.. but you can still do moves by rolling your thumb, or the stick, or whatever without having them on. Its not like adding a diagonal effects anything.. Not that Ive seen.. I do all my moves by rolling and Ive swapped to stick a couple times just to mess with it and see how I liked it, without changing anything.

I look at command grabs as two seperate motions and I force myself to slow down in a match. I look at the DB as one motion and the F+Button as the next. It helped me a lot to look at it that way. Additionally, I found I kept fucking up in a match and getting F3, and as Scarecrow that.. That is a LOT of negative frames. Much like Bane - if not even worse (Dunno frame data off the top of my head) and after some tinkering and thinking.. I was just doing it too quickly. I was botching the DB by going too quickly. I made myself slow down and got a hell of a lot more consistent.

 

[KIllaByte]

I dont understand alt controls.. They add diagonal inputs into the required inputs for moves.. but you can still do moves by rolling your thumb, or the stick, or whatever without having them on. Its not like adding a diagonal effects anything.. Not that Ive seen.. I do all my moves by rolling and Ive swapped to stick a couple times just to mess with it and see how I liked it, without changing anything.

I look at command grabs as two seperate motions and I force myself to slow down in a match. I look at the DB as one motion and the F+Button as the next. It helped me a lot to look at it that way. Additionally, I found I kept fucking up in a match and getting F3, and as Scarecrow that.. That is a LOT of negative frames. Much like Bane - if not even worse (Dunno frame data off the top of my head) and after some tinkering and thinking.. I was just doing it too quickly. I was botching the DB by going too quickly. I made myself slow down and got a hell of a lot more consistent.

More importantly, it prevents pecials from coming out without the diagonals. So As Superman, I can duck under something and then punish with forward 2 without getting rising grab.

 

[Igniz13]

I dont understand alt controls.. They add diagonal inputs into the required inputs for moves.. but you can still do moves by rolling your thumb, or the stick, or whatever without having them on. Its not like adding a diagonal effects anything.. Not that Ive seen.. I do all my moves by rolling and Ive swapped to stick a couple times just to mess with it and see how I liked it, without changing anything.

I look at command grabs as two seperate motions and I force myself to slow down in a match. I look at the DB as one motion and the F+Button as the next. It helped me a lot to look at it that way. Additionally, I found I kept fucking up in a match and getting F3, and as Scarecrow that.. That is a LOT of negative frames. Much like Bane - if not even worse (Dunno frame data off the top of my head) and after some tinkering and thinking.. I was just doing it too quickly. I was botching the DB by going too quickly. I made myself slow down and got a hell of a lot more consistent.

I think it's mainly for stick users, especially ones coming from other games, as you might find yourself prone to doing specials.

I think the command is garbage and should really be a half circle, but that clashes with some bf command or db/df commands

 

[ienjoywinning]

Change it for regular controllers too. awkward dfb, dbf inputs shouldn't exist.

These are fine , it feels weird at first but it gets much better later on

 

[Wetdoba]

Its just an input designed for playing on stick, Ive done it no probpem since day 1 of IGAU. Judt think of it as a quarter circle back then forward +button. Some inputs are just easier on stick than pad and vice versa. Down down inputs are way easier on pad than stick but thats doesnt mean they should get rid of those because a handful of stick players mess them up in matches sometimes. It is what it is

 

[colby4898]

And change Cyborgs grapple input while youre at it

 

[ImperatrixSindel]

I dont understand alt controls.. They add diagonal inputs into the required inputs for moves.. but you can still do moves by rolling your thumb, or the stick, or whatever without having them on. Its not like adding a diagonal effects anything.. Not that Ive seen..

The key change is that it turns B,F inputs into half-circles. It's for stick.

 

[big_aug]

Get a Hitbox and then it doesn't matter what the input is

 

[esio]

That's the only reason I don't play Bane, Harley and Crow.

I just can't get it consistently at the right side. On the left side I can get the command grab like almost 100% of the time, but it really sucks within this game engine.

It would be great if they change it or give an option to change this

 

[Sultan]

If you use Alt Controls and you're main struggle is getting a F3 when you're trying to command throw, an alternative option would be to perform the forward+3 part as forward+1+3 instead. If you somehow mess up the input a regular throw will outprioritize the F3. I do this with Scarecrow to avoid an accidental, suicidal F3 when trying to command throw, and the 10% of the time that I mess up the input I get a normal throw which still catches my blocking opponent sleeping.

 

[Lokheit]

I'm currently used to it so I guess I don't care anymore... but from a design standpoint I still wonder why command grabs have to use 3 directions rather than 2... I mean there are projectiles, lows, OH, unblockables... why command grabs (that actually should be more accesible because of ticks) have 3 directions? It's like assigning higher execution because potato, makes no sense and feels artificial.

It isn't even 100% consistent as certain characters got 2 direction command grabs for some reason (it was argued that Kotal did because it was his main reversal/wakeup... but then that's admitting it's artificially added execution). If you want to make them "feel different" just make them DFThrow like a lot of strings using the throw button.

I work as a game designer in the industry and this is like game design 101, the actual controls should help the player getting into the game and feel natural (the controller itself is just a neccesary bridge, ideally you would control games with your thoughts but we're not at that point yet).

 

[DeftMonk]

More importantly, it prevents pecials from coming out without the diagonals. So As Superman, I can duck under something and then punish with forward 2 without getting rising grab.

^^. Stick users still can do the specials with rolling inputs it's just that using these controls causes you to get less input errors

 

[DeftMonk]

I'm currently used to it so I guess I don't care anymore... but from a design standpoint I still wonder why command grabs have to use 3 directions rather than 2... I mean there are projectiles, lows, OH, unblockables... why command grabs (that actually should be more accesible because of ticks) have 3 directions? It's like assigning higher execution because potato, makes no sense and feels artificial.

It isn't even 100% consistent as certain characters got 2 direction command grabs for some reason (it was argued that Kotal did because it was his main reversal/wakeup... but then that's admitting it's artificially added execution). If you want to make them "feel different" just make them DFThrow like a lot of strings using the throw button.

I work as a game designer in the industry and this is like game design 101, the actual controls should help the player getting into the game and feel natural (the controller itself is just a neccesary bridge, ideally you would control games with your thoughts but we're not at that point yet).

This isn't an nrs only deal. Command grabs in most 2d fighters have a more hefty input. Capcom was probably the pioneer of this trend with zangief. But the same can be seen in samurai showdown/kof/gg/bb/MVC I am sure you know this mr game designer.

 

[DeftMonk]

Down, down back, back, forward

I am not at home and can't check, but isn't the input d db b db d Df f?(quarter circle back then half circle forward)

 

[Lokheit]

This isn't an nrs only deal. Command grabs in most 2d fighters have a more hefty input. Capcom was probably the pioneer of this trend with zangief. But the same can be seen in samurai showdown/kof/gg/bb/MVC I am sure you know this mr game designer.

I know this isn't just a NRS thing, and again, it's wrong in all of them, specially those that "followed the trend" just because someone did it that way before. There are plenty of examples of wrong things being imitated on games of the same genre that shouldn't have to be that way. There isn't a logical reason for that (and many of them worked that way originally because of a lack of slots and technical resources in the first place).

It's like some devs are afraid for their games to be called "for casuals" if they aren't hard enough, but stuff like this is just artificially added difficulty rather than natural difficulty. And don't get me started on Wrestler Jax grab inputs or Jaquie's stanky leg that was vital to optimize her and for no reason was made extra hard when many characters had up+button inputs and she could've worked the same way.

Give me difficulty that makes sense and rewards my skill, adding extra inputs to something basic for a character because potato so it feels harder isn't good design.

 

[SPECTRELIGHT]

The only way I've found to avoid PP not executing is the negative edge setting. However, it takes some serious getting used to.
You know to release after the f input.
I completely agree that the input needs to be changed. OR change the input for ice burst for d,b to d,f

 

[GAV]

I can't be the only player they lost in I2 because of this awkward command grab motion.