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Discussion Patches overwhelmingly help NRS games not hurt them

Do you think NRS patching strategy is much better this time?

  • Yes

    Votes: 74 60.2%
  • No

    Votes: 36 29.3%
  • In between overeall

    Votes: 13 10.6%

  • Total voters
    123

Cossner

King of the Jobbers 2015
There's nothing wrong with ironing out balance issues. Nobody nails it off the bat, we still aren't sure of a solid tiering and we are months into the game with the entire competitive scene playtesting it at this point. Starcraft 2 was released like 5 years ago, by one of the biggest, most reliable developers for delivering games of the highest quality. They are still patching every month or so, ever steadily drawing closer to their goal of perfect balance, as necessary changes get smaller and smaller.


The problem with TYM is, that people make the "Living Guide thread" or "Combo thread" with absolutely zero commitment to updating it. It's present in almost every character sub-category, and it's fckin amature as shit.


People who start the thread need to have some commitment to keeping it relevant instead of just making the initial thread to try look knowledgable or some shit and then just abandon it, or mods should unsticky their thread, find someone who is willing to commit, copy the relevant information across and keep it updated.


SZ section pretty decent all things considered, could be updated however, but most is highly on point. However if I was a fucking Reptile main I would be commandeering that shit, forum is basically one big mess of opinions, with a sprinkling of RM Cossner insulting everybody for being worse than him in every thread
I think the state of TYM right now is a bunch of cry babies whinning about their characters, asking for buffs and nerfs instead of people travelling and leveling up. 99% of people crying don't realize it's them, not the character. If you wanna live in whinyland be my guest, you just signed up 2 months ago believe me you'll get tired of it after 4 years.
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
Players DEMANDED that Raiden NEEDED to be nerfed.

Players DEMANDED that Tanya be nerfed.

Players DEMANDED that Kenshi get buffed.

Players DEMANDED that Kitana receive buffs.

NRS patches and adjusts these characters and people complain that they patch too much.

To clarify: People are daily asking for nerfs and buffs and then complain when the game is patched.

My advice: Take better notes. Erase outdated information in a notebook or tablet or word document and update as necessary.

This takes no time to do.
 

EmoScoobyDoo

Maybe I'll have something to say ... Probably not
Saw this thread was posted in again and read a bit of the last page because I don't want to go through the entire thing.

The amount of patching and especially patching with no warning drives off a lot players from other communities. NRS games may have the largest overall player base but we do not have nearly the same amount of "serious" players other games do, because playing multiple games is hard as it is and when your secondary game patches frequently without warning it is hard to keep up. It may not be as hard for us NRS players (even if we play other games) because this is our main game that we spend the most time on.

And we've all seen the visceral reactions patches cause, even within our community where we are used to the amount of and the speed of patches. Now imagine you are coming from say the Street Fighter community, you've already had to learn a completely different system that is extremely more offensive than what you are used to playing, has much slower normals, has very damaging combos that use a completely different combo system and a large amount of 50/50s. Now imagine after you've been practicing SF for a week in prep for a major you get on MK and find out there is a patch. You look up the patch notes and suddenly see your character has had some large changes aswell as other characters. Now you must learn a whole set of new things, maybe throw out some stuff you used a lot and get in practice against the new things other characters now have. Would you blame them for getting frustrated and leaving? Especially if they had done that a couple times and saw it happen again.

Now for NRS' perspective I would think Warner Bros. pressures them to have a new title out every 2 years and stop giving funding for the previous game after about 6 months post release because that seems to be the pattern. Other developers seem to not have a large company breathing down their necks like this and thus are able to only do one patch every few months. (Of course this is pure speculation on my part, I have no idea what actually happens at NRS or any other developer)

On a side note I'm curious to see if Capcom will only have funding by Sony for a short amount of time after SFV's release, but then Capcom does have a much more delicate patching style than NRS.


Until NRS is able to have larger gaps between patches or at least give warning of an incoming patch we will always have a smaller community within the FGC.

I would like to see some kind of weekly update from NRS similar to what Bungie does for Destiny so that we can have some idea what they are going to address in a patch and when.
 

trufenix

bye felicia
You guys are too smart to be having the NRS should patch like SF discussion. SF and (anything NRS makes, really) do not have comperable support structures. The games Capcom has done that have the same support structure as NRS are MvC3 and SFxT. You know, the ones people make excuses for or just look the other way in terms of balance / patching.

When NRS makes year round international profits, they can look into annual review patches / upgrades for their games. Until then, it will be patched in conjunction with its content releases. That's life.
 

mkl

Poopbutt.
Players DEMANDED that Raiden NEEDED to be nerfed.

Players DEMANDED that Tanya be nerfed.

Players DEMANDED that Kenshi get buffed.

Players DEMANDED that Kitana receive buffs.

NRS patches and adjusts these characters and people complain that they patch too much.

To clarify: People are daily asking for nerfs and buffs and then complain when the game is patched.

My advice: Take better notes. Erase outdated information in a notebook or tablet or word document and update as necessary.

This takes no time to do.
Every forum for a fighting game is filled with babies whining. The difference is in almost all other games those babies don't get their way every two weeks. These people are the minority in the actual competitive stratosphere and don't deserve to be heard in the first place. When it's glitches and something potentially ugly and completely game destroying, patch it. Otherwise there isn't a reason to balance the game top to bottom every patch.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
Players DEMANDED that Raiden NEEDED to be nerfed.

Players DEMANDED that Tanya be nerfed.

Players DEMANDED that Kenshi get buffed.

Players DEMANDED that Kitana receive buffs.

NRS patches and adjusts these characters and people complain that they patch too much.

To clarify: People are daily asking for nerfs and buffs and then complain when the game is patched.

My advice: Take better notes. Erase outdated information in a notebook or tablet or word document and update as necessary.

This takes no time to do.
So people are actually bitching about patches after demanding nerfs and buffs?
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
So people are actually bitching about patches after demanding nerfs and buffs?
Looks like it.

Also, i don't buy this "re-learn" the game talk.

If you take notes, either on paper or electronically, is it that hard to update them?

Hell, i would argue that it's the player's responsibility to take good, frequent, and accurate notes about the game they're playing.

I have no sympathy for the guys treating MK X as their side game being forced to now put in as much effort as the guys who play MK X as their main game.

Accept responsibility for your role as a player and stop blaming patches.

This isn't directed at you, Scoot.
 

mkl

Poopbutt.
Looks like it.

Also, i don't buy this "re-learn" the game talk.

If you take notes, either on paper or electronically, is it that hard to update them?

Hell, i would argue that it's the player's responsibility to take good, frequent, and accurate notes about the game they're playing.

I have no sympathy for the guys treating MK X as their side game being forced to now put in as much effort as the guys who play MK X as their main game.

Accept responsibility for your role as a player and stop blaming patches.

This isn't directed at you, Scoot.
The problem doesn't lie in people too lazy to keep up with the changes. I seriously doubt that many of the people against frequent meta-changing patches have this qualm. The qualm is that when nothing remains constant for longer than two weeks nobody has the opportunity to actually learn the ins and outs of the meta and thus, have no idea what is or isn't broken. So all this style of patching does is force all players to learn as many characters as they can and then race to see who can find the most easily abusable shit after each patch. That isn't healthy for a fighting game especially on how casual fans view top 8s.
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
, post: 1803267, member: 11960"]The problem doesn't lie in people too lazy to keep up with the changes. I seriously doubt that many of the people against frequent meta-changing patches have this qualm. The qualm is that when nothing remains constant for longer than two weeks nobody has the opportunity to actually learn the ins and outs of the meta and thus, have no idea what is or isn't broken. So all this style of patching does is force all players to learn as many characters as they can and then race to see who can find the most abusable shit after each patch. That isn't healthy for a fighting game especially on how casual fans view top 8s.
The problem is that the community demanded these patches. You saw The Tanya Scare.

The narrative was that Tanya had to be nerfed NOW.

Raiden after combo breaker had to be nerfed NOW.

So they patch.

And people complain?

This is to say nothing of the daily buff/nerf threads and requests.

What do people want?

You can't have everything.

You can't play Doomsday prophet about characters and then cry when a patch comes.
 

mkl

Poopbutt.
The problem is that the community demanded these patches. You saw The Tanya Scare.

The narrative was that Tanya had to be nerfed NOW.

Raiden after combo breaker had to be nerfed NOW.

So they patch.

And people complain?

This is to say nothing of the daily buff/nerf threads and requests.

What do people want?

You can't have everything.

You can't play Doomsday prophet about characters and then cry when a patch comes.
If you read my previous post I said that these people should be ignored in the first place. Every community is filled with scrubs bitching about balance without any idea of what that even means in the first place. If very vocal people bitching dictates how a game will evolve, what does that say about the patching process and how the game will be played?

Superman and Tanya were ugly and very suffocating in their respective metas. Barely anyone enjoyed watching them so I can completely see why they would be patched if there was a fear it would hurt the overall outlook of the game. That said, that doesn't mean 12 other characters should get random buffs and nerfs to completely shake everything up just to level off some potentially gross and abusable tools of the absolute "top" character at the moment.
 
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Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
If you read my previous post I said that these people should be ignored in the first place. Every community is filled with scrubs bitching about balance without any idea of what that even means in the first place. If very vocal people bitching dictates how a game will evolve, what does that say about the patching process and how the game will be played?
It wasn't just randoms making these demands.


Right or wrong, Top players heavily advocated for buffs and nerfs to certain characters.
 

mkl

Poopbutt.
It wasn't just randoms making these demands.


Right or wrong, Top players heavily advocated for buffs and nerfs to certain characters.
I realize that. Even the most intelligent or decorated players have no right to decide what happens to a game. They're no different than anyone else crying for changes to a game that is two months old.
 
This isn't like old times where it took years to figure out the intricacies and nuances of a game because we didn't know the frame data or didn't know how certain moves worked.
I made an account specifically to talk about this. Not only is this a really bad attitude to have when it comes to competitive games, it's wrong.

Let me give you some examples.

Street Fighter 4 is probably the single most dissected game in the history of fighting games. A game with strong scenes in North America, multiple Asian countries, multiple European countries, multiple South American countries, on and on. Top players everywhere, with relative parity across scenes. If anything, evidence has shown us that North America is one of the weaker regions in that game. A million monkeys at a million typewriters for the new age (a million dudes making youtube videos?). Our scene has never collectively been better at a game than we have been at SF4. Only other possible contender would be Melee I guess.

And yet we've made a lot of critical errors on estimating the balance of the game. Towards the end of the AE 2012 version (early 2014), Smug started making noise locally, then nationally, all with Dudley. It was assumed that Dudley wasn't just a weak character but probably a bottom 5 character. One of the rare hopeless characters in a game that was pretty well balanced overall. Matchup discussion regarding Dudley could be fit onto an index card “oh just do ________, he can't do anything, easy match”. Then Smug started winning. And winning some more. And finally taking out some big fish way out of his weight class. Were we wrong? Had we been wrong for FOUR YEARS?

Actually yeah. We probably were. Smug is a fantastic player but one of the most important things to take away from his rise as a player is that EVERYONE was wrong about a character. Smug was winning matches that we thought were unwinnable at top level just by playing BETTER. Landing “show off” combos reliably. Making reads and creating counter hits in positions previously assumed to be unwinnable. We had all the frame data. We had people from 30 countries all grinding and trying new things. We had 4 years of Dudley tournament results. How could we have made such critical errors in assessing matchups?

It's not without precedent. Vanilla SF4 we all collectively whiffed on Cammy and Fei Long, characters whose tools (intact in that version) would come to dominate future versions. In retrospect we underrated Seth also. Our understanding of that game, a game that had been out in one form or another for over a year and a half by the time we stopped playing it was very shallow in retrospect.

Let's look at other games. Our estimation of balance in another modern game reads like a comedy of errors in retrospect. The biggest debate in vanilla Marvel was “Wesker or Magneto?” Most people were with Wesker. And most people were wrong. Watching old tournament vanilla Marvel matches you will notice that not only is Magneto not optimized, what we now understand as his best move (magnetic blast) is almost NEVER used. All the best tournament players in the world DIDN'T UNDERSTAND how to use his best move! We grossly underestimated Dante (and we already thought he was a top tier character). We grossly OVERestimated Wolverine. Move forward into Ultimate. People actually seriously considered banning Wesker, a character who has become very rare because the game passed him by. We thought Morrigan was a bottom 5 character. She's actually top 3 (and the point character for what is—at worst—the 2nd best team in the game).

I could go on with repeated failings of the community at large as pertains to game balance but I've made my point and you probably don't care. The point is saying that “we know” how a game is going to balance out in the end after a couple weeks is wrong. Hilariously wrong. Without tooting my own horn, I've basically built my tournament career on being slightly more accurate at assessing general balance in 3 months than most people are at 12 months. Really that's the only fighting game skill I'm even above average at. Figuring out what a game is going to look like in the end is HARD. It takes time. Experience teaches me that no matter how good you are, a 2-3 month assessment of the game is going to be wrong. No matter how basic the game. No matter how much information is at your disposal. Hell we were wrong about DIVEKICK balance at that point in the game's lifespan!

Now, having said that.

Over the past couple pages you've named 5 characters as “obviously broken” and that there would be “no way” to adapt to them. You know enough history to know that this isn't true, but it also shows that the word “broken” shouldn't be used here at all. If you're right about those characters being that strong (and nobody's saying you're wrong), then they're not broken, you have a top tier with multiple strong characters. This is good, not bad.

So what you're really saying is that you want the game to be balanced from the bottom, not from the top. That every time any character sticks their head above a (now arbitrary) level of “too good” they should be whacked down into the pack without stopping to consider if other characters could reach that high in time. Not only is this an unsatisfying way to balance a game, it puts character balance at a premium over strategic balance when older games have shown us that players will tolerate weak character balance but NOT weak strategic balance.

And on a personal level I strongly dislike the metagame of MKX and NRS games. What results have shown us is that choosing a “main character” in this game is strongly discouraged at the tournament level. You run the risk of having your legs chopped out from under you. At any time. For any reason. Imagine now if you were a Scorpion player on June 22nd. You'd spent a long time practicing, getting ready for the end of the tournament season. You had your tickets booked for CEO and Evo. Sure there were other good players but you liked your chances.

You no longer like your chances.

If you don't play any other character well besides Hellfire Scorpion you're officially out of the running and out of the money. You've said that with the amount of money on the line and the amount of exposure for NRS that they have to engineer the results. To avoid the embarrassment of the Superman/Black Adam situation, they have to manipulate results for maximum enjoyment. I see it a different way. For players with this much money on the line it's not fair either. If you're training for a major tournament, you need to know that the game you're practicing is the game you'll be playing. And that simply isn't what happens.

To dedicated NRS players you're used to it but this is empirically unacceptable to people who play any other type of game. The potential to go into a major tournament having to digest major chances on TWO DAYS NOTICE? Ridiculous. You can't specialize in anything in this environment, game theory wise it's just a bad decision to choose to excel in something as opposed to raising your general level in multiple characters and multiple styles. The biggest factor in the metagame up to this point isn't players, it's the patch cycle! And this is OK? Is it worth putting in extra time this week to grind for Evo? Who knows! For my hypothetical guy, it sure wasn't worth putting in that extra time on June 22! All your work is down the drain.

I'm just not interested in playing "patch roulette" even though so far as a Sonya player I've been winning this game up to this point. I enjoy the game, but the constant patching prevents the game from getting to the later stages of understanding, which is the most satisfying part and the only reason I still play and enjoy fighting games these days.

It's just one man's opinion but I'm definitely not alone.
 

Mortal Komhat

Worst Well-Established Goro Player Ever
Fuck I really wish the PC version wasn't ass so we coulda have had a beta serve like Skullgirls did, I feel the patches would be better received if A. we had a place to test them out & B. having a test server would mean people would have a better idea of when stuff is coming.
Skullgirls is extremely open to its community to the point where the community's shaped the game almost to the same level as the developers themselves. More importantly, the developer themselves understands the value of a beta server that they can just fuck around with if needed.

NRS/WB would never actually go for such a thing. First of all, they'd have to actually treat the PC platform as the first platform to develop for and, well, we all know how THAT worked out. Even if the PC version was godlike, you still wouldn't have your wish on this because of so many factors within the culture of these two entities.

Second, I don't think NRS would ever want anyone looking at their game in a beta state. Just isn't their style - How long was the info drought last year?

I'm not saying it wouldn't be welcome - just that it's a pipe dream best reserved for a developer / publishing house that values feedback and won't abandon the game in a year. I'd take a PC exclusive fighter just for that level of interaction personally. Which is never gonna happen under a AAA publishing house.

I'm also a weird person who thought the Tanya matchup wasn't that hard for Goro. Shit it might even be in our favor now.
 
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I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
I think the state of TYM right now is a bunch of cry babies whinning about their characters, asking for buffs and nerfs instead of people travelling and leveling up. 99% of people crying don't realize it's them, not the character. If you wanna live in whinyland be my guest, you just signed up 2 months ago believe me you'll get tired of it after 4 years.
Fair enough on that one actually haha a lot of people do exactly that, one thing I will say I respect about you is how you also try to level up instead of asking NRS to do it for you
 

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
I made an account specifically to talk about this. Not only is this a really bad attitude to have when it comes to competitive games, it's wrong.

Let me give you some examples.

Street Fighter 4 is probably the single most dissected game in the history of fighting games. A game with strong scenes in North America, multiple Asian countries, multiple European countries, multiple South American countries, on and on. Top players everywhere, with relative parity across scenes. If anything, evidence has shown us that North America is one of the weaker regions in that game. A million monkeys at a million typewriters for the new age (a million dudes making youtube videos?). Our scene has never collectively been better at a game than we have been at SF4. Only other possible contender would be Melee I guess.

And yet we've made a lot of critical errors on estimating the balance of the game. Towards the end of the AE 2012 version (early 2014), Smug started making noise locally, then nationally, all with Dudley. It was assumed that Dudley wasn't just a weak character but probably a bottom 5 character. One of the rare hopeless characters in a game that was pretty well balanced overall. Matchup discussion regarding Dudley could be fit onto an index card “oh just do ________, he can't do anything, easy match”. Then Smug started winning. And winning some more. And finally taking out some big fish way out of his weight class. Were we wrong? Had we been wrong for FOUR YEARS?

Actually yeah. We probably were. Smug is a fantastic player but one of the most important things to take away from his rise as a player is that EVERYONE was wrong about a character. Smug was winning matches that we thought were unwinnable at top level just by playing BETTER. Landing “show off” combos reliably. Making reads and creating counter hits in positions previously assumed to be unwinnable. We had all the frame data. We had people from 30 countries all grinding and trying new things. We had 4 years of Dudley tournament results. How could we have made such critical errors in assessing matchups?

It's not without precedent. Vanilla SF4 we all collectively whiffed on Cammy and Fei Long, characters whose tools (intact in that version) would come to dominate future versions. In retrospect we underrated Seth also. Our understanding of that game, a game that had been out in one form or another for over a year and a half by the time we stopped playing it was very shallow in retrospect.

Let's look at other games. Our estimation of balance in another modern game reads like a comedy of errors in retrospect. The biggest debate in vanilla Marvel was “Wesker or Magneto?” Most people were with Wesker. And most people were wrong. Watching old tournament vanilla Marvel matches you will notice that not only is Magneto not optimized, what we now understand as his best move (magnetic blast) is almost NEVER used. All the best tournament players in the world DIDN'T UNDERSTAND how to use his best move! We grossly underestimated Dante (and we already thought he was a top tier character). We grossly OVERestimated Wolverine. Move forward into Ultimate. People actually seriously considered banning Wesker, a character who has become very rare because the game passed him by. We thought Morrigan was a bottom 5 character. She's actually top 3 (and the point character for what is—at worst—the 2nd best team in the game).

I could go on with repeated failings of the community at large as pertains to game balance but I've made my point and you probably don't care. The point is saying that “we know” how a game is going to balance out in the end after a couple weeks is wrong. Hilariously wrong. Without tooting my own horn, I've basically built my tournament career on being slightly more accurate at assessing general balance in 3 months than most people are at 12 months. Really that's the only fighting game skill I'm even above average at. Figuring out what a game is going to look like in the end is HARD. It takes time. Experience teaches me that no matter how good you are, a 2-3 month assessment of the game is going to be wrong. No matter how basic the game. No matter how much information is at your disposal. Hell we were wrong about DIVEKICK balance at that point in the game's lifespan!

Now, having said that.

Over the past couple pages you've named 5 characters as “obviously broken” and that there would be “no way” to adapt to them. You know enough history to know that this isn't true, but it also shows that the word “broken” shouldn't be used here at all. If you're right about those characters being that strong (and nobody's saying you're wrong), then they're not broken, you have a top tier with multiple strong characters. This is good, not bad.

So what you're really saying is that you want the game to be balanced from the bottom, not from the top. That every time any character sticks their head above a (now arbitrary) level of “too good” they should be whacked down into the pack without stopping to consider if other characters could reach that high in time. Not only is this an unsatisfying way to balance a game, it puts character balance at a premium over strategic balance when older games have shown us that players will tolerate weak character balance but NOT weak strategic balance.

And on a personal level I strongly dislike the metagame of MKX and NRS games. What results have shown us is that choosing a “main character” in this game is strongly discouraged at the tournament level. You run the risk of having your legs chopped out from under you. At any time. For any reason. Imagine now if you were a Scorpion player on June 22nd. You'd spent a long time practicing, getting ready for the end of the tournament season. You had your tickets booked for CEO and Evo. Sure there were other good players but you liked your chances.

You no longer like your chances.

If you don't play any other character well besides Hellfire Scorpion you're officially out of the running and out of the money. You've said that with the amount of money on the line and the amount of exposure for NRS that they have to engineer the results. To avoid the embarrassment of the Superman/Black Adam situation, they have to manipulate results for maximum enjoyment. I see it a different way. For players with this much money on the line it's not fair either. If you're training for a major tournament, you need to know that the game you're practicing is the game you'll be playing. And that simply isn't what happens.

To dedicated NRS players you're used to it but this is empirically unacceptable to people who play any other type of game. The potential to go into a major tournament having to digest major chances on TWO DAYS NOTICE? Ridiculous. You can't specialize in anything in this environment, game theory wise it's just a bad decision to choose to excel in something as opposed to raising your general level in multiple characters and multiple styles. The biggest factor in the metagame up to this point isn't players, it's the patch cycle! And this is OK? Is it worth putting in extra time this week to grind for Evo? Who knows! For my hypothetical guy, it sure wasn't worth putting in that extra time on June 22! All your work is down the drain.

I'm just not interested in playing "patch roulette" even though so far as a Sonya player I've been winning this game up to this point. I enjoy the game, but the constant patching prevents the game from getting to the later stages of understanding, which is the most satisfying part and the only reason I still play and enjoy fighting games these days.

It's just one man's opinion but I'm definitely not alone.
I disagree and believe patches help the game, but you make a compelling argument.
 

Shark Tank

I don't actually play these games
We really don't have a choice anyway the suits in WB headquarters say 6 months for patches is all you get. All we can do is live in the madness and scrape for buffs for our favorite character in this open beta until the game finally metaically releases in the fall or just drop the game but that's no fun. Until then, embrace the chaos.
 

RunwayMafia

Shoot them. Shoot them all.
We really don't have a choice anyway the suits in WB headquarters say 6 months for patches is all you get. All we can do is live in the madness and scrape for buffs for our favorite character in this open beta until the game finally metaically releases in the fall or just drop the game but that's no fun. Until then, embrace the chaos.
I agree with this sentiment. The reason why everyone is going nuts with buff requests is because we know our days are numbered. Like 6 months numbered.

If NRS updated and patched years past or continued support past the NRS expiration date, people would probably chill. But we all know its a rat race in this hood.
 

coolwhip

Master
It's true, I liked Cyrax because he had options no one else had. Traps and a useful command grab? Sick, that's like the perfect combination of the two things I look for in fighting games. So when part of that got nerfed, I got less interested, shrug. But on top of that I was trying to play SF4 and MvC3 at the same time, so following changes in MK9 was hard for me. Learning one fighting game already takes a lot of time even without constant changes, so trying to play 3 very different games while one of them was changing all the time wasn't really doable for me. I thought it was sad because I preferred MK9 over MvC3, but MvC3 wasn't changing, so I could be sure that any time I spent learning things in it would still be valuable the next time I picked it up. And so I dropped MK9! Most of my local scene dropped it too, many of them because of the patching as well.

When it comes to patching in IGAU or MKX, the problem isn't whether the game gets better or worse. For sure Injustice ended up better after its patches! But along the way it lost a ton of interested players, many of whom were multi-game players who couldn't or didn't want to have to relearn things all the time. I feel like MKX patching has been a bit more haphazard so far, really more about just juggling tiers, but I'm not necessarily opposed to them either.

What I really hate in strategy games like fighting games is uncertainty, much more than I hate bad matchups or overpowered options. And uncertainty is I guess what NRS games are all about in their early lives: you can't know what's going to change when or for what reason. I enjoy the discovery phase in fighting games, but really what I want to do is get into the long term strategic phase that I feel is so fascinating. But with NRS games I feel stuck in discovery for the first half year, like I'm constantly having to relearn and re-experiment. I feel like I'll never get a chance to actually master MKX because NRS won't let me.

If they'd laid any ground rules, it might be better. If they said we're going to patch and here's our patch schedule, and we'll be looking to change this sort of thing or that sort of thing, and we're going to let people test first, or whatever, it would be easier to swallow. But these unannounced unscheduled patches with no public justifications and sometimes strange buffs, nerfs, and omissions, I don't know. I don't know if I can deal with that for much longer.
This is all fair, but I seriously ask, what about the other side of the coin? What about all the players who would drop the game if it doesn't get patched so frequently due to how broke it would be?
 

coolwhip

Master
Also, nobody wants to say it, but there's big contingent who play multiple games that are opposed to frequent patching in NRS games because it would actually require for them to put in the time and take the game seriously instead of doing good with day 1 meta.

Plus, the "after EVO I'm done" crowd's logic is a bit odd. After EVO, there usually is very little patching save for one major patch usually around October. Shouldn't you be looking forward to that time when you can finally play without having to worry about sudden patches? I mean you could say the constant patching turned them off the game so much that they just don't want to play it anymore but come on...
 
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I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
We really don't have a choice anyway the suits in WB headquarters say 6 months for patches is all you get. All we can do is live in the madness and scrape for buffs for our favorite character in this open beta until the game finally metaically releases in the fall or just drop the game but that's no fun. Until then, embrace the chaos.
There's a lot of things we can blanket chalk up to WB because we don't know if NRS doesn't have a say in it or not. This isn't one of them.

WB doesn't control NRS's studio, if they want to work on patching their own game because they care about their customers / competitive scene they are fully free to do so. The publisher likely has its hands in a lot of things, but NRS doing this will only benefit WB so they will not restrict them from doing so.
 

volkmair

Noob
One difference compared to the constant patching of games like League of Legends and Starcraft is that they have separate tournament servers running on a set version of the game. And they don't switch over to the latest public live patch until the end of a tournament season or the current version has settled down and any glaring problems fixed before it becomes the tournament version.