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General/Other - Ruthless Pain n Gain Frame data.

Cooljaxx

Cooljaxx

Mkx is the name , Mix is the game
So lately I have been re going over what I know about frame data. Which this being my first Fg it was kinda hard first learning it but recalling is a lot easier. So I was thinking what is the frame data of pain and gain cancels on block? So in order to test how Frame savvy I am, I'm figuring out the cancel frame data on pain and gain cancels ( Correct if any are wrong )

S4 Pain n gain : I would say roughly plus 13 or 14 on block. I say this because s4 pain and gain run cancel jails into d4 (13 f startup)

F2 pain n gain : I would say plus 15 or 16 on block. The f2 pain and gain cancel easily jails into f3 and f2 (15 f startup)

S2 Pain n gain: I would say plus 2 or 3 at Max. Regular s2 is negative 8 on block which is punishable to Laos 7f spin ( 6f reversal) but after the pain and gain makes it safe.

B12 pain and gain : I'm not very sure with this one. It's defiantly plus but it doesn't jail into the 6f d1 when Ferra isn't on your back. I would have it for a range of plus 2-4 at max.

B121 pain and gain: I give it about a plus 2. Or even plus 1.

2f4 pain and gain cancel : now this one confused me to peices. It jails into d1 which is 6 frames and is regularly - 5 on block . Maybe plus 11? But then there's the blockstun so I'm not very sure.

This is the data I've collected so far. Tell me if it's wrong or right and I'm open to criticism.
@bdogg0100 @Kamikaze_Highlander @XxDark_ @oaoo94 @Doombawkz @Rolling_Toaster @Ferra torr mains

Edit; now that I'm,looking at b3 which is negative 9 on block, jails after the pain and gain into d1. And is made safe to reptiles ex slide. Possibly plus 15?
 
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Cooljaxx

Cooljaxx

Mkx is the name , Mix is the game
Update : b12 DOES jail into d1 after pain and gain. Buffed up plus frames possibility to a plus 6 or 7 possibly
 
Jeffrey Wolf

Jeffrey Wolf

YouTube: Jeffrey B Wolf
This is great info. I was actually hoping to make one master thread of cancelled moves, so we can all learn matchups. To help with memorization, because, man, is there an insane amount of info, it seems to me that it should break into three categories:

Jails (i.e. you've just got to hold block or get hit by the last hit to escape, in some cases)
Plus (i.e. Frame Trap, but could be armored)
Negative (i.e. opponent gets to press the next button)

From what you've listed it seems like it would be:

Jails

S4
F2
2F4

Plus

S2
B12
B121

Negative

None

Yeah?
 
Cooljaxx

Cooljaxx

Mkx is the name , Mix is the game
What I mainly use for pressure is B12 stagger thanks to b1s great range and its 0 on block. And if you are gonna use one of the jailing strings use f2 into overhead Ferra toss or pain and gain. They both jail after . Another thing is to abuse the crap out of overhead Ferra toss. B12 Ferra toss jails aswell. But I base my pressure about b12 stagger and pain and gain to eat the opponents reversal.
 
Cooljaxx

Cooljaxx

Mkx is the name , Mix is the game
If you have any questions or anything you would like to add on just post it here! I'll answer as soon as I can
 
Doombawkz

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
The data is good, the numbers are right but the way you're figuring them is wrong. When you cancel a move on block, you basically replace that move's negative block frames with it's cancel frames which are used in the next move's start-up and recovery. In this case, PnG has roughly 5 frames of start-up before you can cancel it and memory serving b.3 has 20 cancel advantage, giving the impression of +15.

Otherwise, data is greata. Try jailing some of these into standing 2, you may be surprised to find a few of these are slightly more advantageous than you thought.
 
Cooljaxx

Cooljaxx

Mkx is the name , Mix is the game
Doombawkz said:
The data is good, the numbers are right but the way you're figuring them is wrong. When you cancel a move on block, you basically replace that move's negative block frames with it's cancel frames which are used in the next move's start-up and recovery. In this case, PnG has roughly 5 frames of start-up before you can cancel it and memory serving b.3 has 20 cancel advantage, giving the impression of +15.

Otherwise, data is greata. Try jailing some of these into standing 2, you may be surprised to find a few of these are slightly more advantageous than you thought.
Click to expand...
This is my first fighting game s I'm still figuring things out. Thanks for the help
 
Cooljaxx

Cooljaxx

Mkx is the name , Mix is the game
Cause I'm reading Justin's frame data stuff and I'm still confused on how to find cancel advantage
 
Doombawkz

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Cooljaxx said:
And how did you figure out the cancel advantage frames? @Doombawkz
Click to expand...
I think when you look at the move, there's a label that says cancel with a number under it.
0 means the move can't be cancelled, other numbers are how many frames you gain when you cancel the move into another move, which is what allows certain strings to work the way they do. Moves into Lackey charge, for example, tend to have very high cancel numbers.
 
Kamikaze_Highlander

Kamikaze_Highlander

PSN: Windude008
I can never wrap my head around frame data like this, or at least how to figure it out

but b3xPnG rc f2 will stuff reptile's slide on reversal, so like +8
 
tatterbug4

tatterbug4

Bug of tater's
Is it really that worth it to try to pressure though? You ripping 5% off. Unless you got a good gimmick coming in. Is torr super over head? You could probably getting a jailing pressure 50/50 for all your meter lol. Either f2 combo or super
 
Cooljaxx

Cooljaxx

Mkx is the name , Mix is the game
tatterbug4 said:
Is it really that worth it to try to pressure though? You ripping 5% off. Unless you got a good gimmick coming in. Is torr super over head? You could probably getting a jailing pressure 50/50 for all your meter lol. Either f2 combo or super
Click to expand...
IMO ferra torr is one of the best pressure characters in the game. And your gonna be using overhead Ferra toss more than pain and gain . I really only use pain n gains if if jails or I read the opponent is doing a reversal.
 
Cooljaxx

Cooljaxx

Mkx is the name , Mix is the game
Update: S4 pain and gain dash cancel is COMPLETLY safe. Tested AGaints reptiles ex slide
Update 2: f2 is also fully safe when dash canceled
 
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