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Off-Topic Discussion for the day: Should jobs that provide full Health benefits have requirements?

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
That's not the point. The point is those are MY 3 hours to do with what I please, and working out isn't what I'd like to do.
I am only replying to his point, not the general idea behind it. 99% of the point you actually do have the time to spare.
 

aj1701

Noob
What to do with irresponsible people with their health...the only choices are let them die or pay for them. What other options are there?
Well the other option is what Pig posted in the OP, which is dropping their coverage so they get too foot their own medical bills on their own, or as I've suggested raising premiums. I've got to ask you though, we've known smoking causes cancer for years now, so I really have to ask, why should anyone pay for someone that gets lung cancer as a result of smoking? Maybe we should refuse to treat them. In a country where you are free to live however you like, shouldn't that freedom also mean you accept the consequences of your actions, instead of expecting others to clean up after you?

I brought up the other things because you said you don't believe in entitlements, but you do believe in entitlements because if social security is there for you to collect when you get old you are basically saying you will collect it. You feel justified in collecting it even though you will most likely collect more from social security and medicare than what you pay into it, which means you will be taking money from younger people to pay for your benefit.
When people refer to entitlements they are referring to government programs that give something for nothing. When I retire and start getting my social security retirement benefits, that's not entitlement because I've been paying into that every paycheck since I started working at 17. I pay into it (as does my employer), its supposed to earn interest, and then I start getting it back when I retire. Which is exactly how my 401(k) works, which is also not an entitlement. You also have to earn work credits to get it, you don't just get it because you exist in America. Medicare works the same way.

And again, I don't expect either of those programs to be there by the time I retire, I suspect they'll have collapsed by then.
 

aj1701

Noob
Are you are asking if healthy employees should subsidize the cost of insurance for irresponsible, unhealthy people?

How do you feel about what happens currently with many employer based health care systems, where single folks or married folks with working spouses have to subsidize the health insurance cost of other employees' children and non working spouses?
Premiums are higher for the employee that adds their spouse / family to their insurance, so I'm not sure you can argue single people subsidize families.
 

aj1701

Noob
That's not the point. The point is those are MY 3 hours to do with what I please, and working out isn't what I'd like to do.
That's fine, but don't expect others to pay when you end up with a heart attack. I'm all for letting people do what they please as long as they are also the only ones that need to suffer the consequences.
 

Killphil

A prop on the stage of life.
That's fine, but don't expect others to pay when you end up with a heart attack. I'm all for letting people do what they please as long as they are also the only ones that need to suffer the consequences.
Fair enough. Just because I personally would choose not to work out doesn't mean I'm automatically a fat slob who smokes a carton a day.
 

Under_The_Mayo

Master of Quanculations
I find it hard to believe people cannot spare 3 hours each week to work out.
You don't know what it's like to live in poverty as a single mother of 3. Taking care of sick family members. Or whatever other obstacles are in the way. Some people slave at work, get their kids ready for school, and pass out just to get 4 hours of sleep.
 

aj1701

Noob
Fair enough. Just because I personally would choose not to work out doesn't mean I'm automatically a fat slob who smokes a carton a day.
Didn't mean to imply you smoke or are fat, but even if you're thin if you are sedentary its still really bad for your health. My post wasn't really targeted to you specifically, just addressing the responsibility that comes with freedom.
 

chemist4hire

I Got Guiled
Premiums are higher for the employee that adds their spouse / family to their insurance, so I'm not sure you can argue single people subsidize families.
They may be higher, but they are no 100% higher per each individual covered and this is because they spread the cost over to those that do not have families. In essence single people pay more than they would if spouses or children were not covered.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
You don't know what it's like to live in poverty as a single mother of 3. Taking care of sick family members. Or whatever other obstacles are in the way. Some people slave at work, get their kids ready for school, and pass out just to get 4 hours of sleep.
Which is why I said 99% of the time on my other post. Of course there are people like that who really don't have any time whatsoever, I know that first hand actually.
 

Under_The_Mayo

Master of Quanculations
American College of Sports Medicine activity recommendations:

200 min of moderate intensity activity per week for weight maintenance
250 min of moderate intensity activity per week for weight loss

It can be difficult to do this every week. I'll bet 90% of this site doesn't meet these standards and is considered "inactive" by definition.
I do weight machines twice a week in the park, and hand weights and pushups in my room. I walk to/from/between buses at least an hour a day. Do you think I'm out of the inactive classification?
 

aj1701

Noob
They may be higher, but they are no 100% higher per each individual covered and this is because they spread the cost over to those that do not have families. In essence single people pay more than they would if spouses or children were not covered.
Its not quite as simple as that either, they might believe single people engage in more risky behavior than families, it also depends on the makeup of the company. for example, a startup I worked for had mostly young single healthy employees and so we got a lower rate than a company that had a different mix.

And I never said I had a problem with spreading risk with insurance but the worst offenders should probably be dropped or have sharply higher premiums, just like people getting in accidents all the time will end up with higher premiums and eventually dropped.

The data is out there for people to live a healthy lifestyle, we should expect people act on it or pay for the additional costs they are creating.
 
You're a bit out of touch. Fresh vegetables are cheaper per meal than McDonald's . If you only had a normal cheeseburger and small fry from the dollar menu, even if it was for every meal of the day, you'd actually be in danger of starving. Plus its the dollar and more menu now, so your cheaper argument is very strong. I don't dispute poor people eat from the dollar menu, but its out of ignorance not necessarily. There's a strong correlation between education and fitness.
$4 gets me 4 double cheeseburgers dude. How much food can I get with that at Trader Joes?
EDIT: ah shit nvm double che went up to $1.19...
 

Killphil

A prop on the stage of life.
Didn't mean to imply you smoke or are fat, but even if you're thin if you are sedentary its still really bad for your health. My post wasn't really targeted to you specifically, just addressing the responsibility that comes with freedom.
Alright my bad. But hey, I'm changing my habits just this past summer. I stopped eating mcdonald's all together. A direct result of that one change is that I end up preparing and making more food for myself. I know I'm not the healthiest person, but I think its a step in the right direction. (I may be unhealthy on the other side of the spectrum, being barely above underweight on the bmi. heh)

Also I realize we're going off topic, but we're probably done with this particular discussion for now anyway. No hard feelings.
 

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
I do weight machines twice a week in the park, and hand weights and pushups in my room. I walk to/from/between buses at least an hour a day. Do you think I'm out of the inactive classification?
Depends on duration.

Weights can be considered vigorous activity and you only need 150 min of vigorous activity per week kn place of moderate. Problem is many times weights can be done so slow that it's not vitreous at all.

You can calculate if you are or not
 
I think everyone has equal rights and everyone should have access to the same health care basics/essentials. But then if you want to reward people who make an effort to stay healthy then I don't see anything wrong with it. It would simply be a bonus that you get for working out and eating well. The same way some companies reward you for being a good driver or for shopping a lot.

But responsibility should be shared with food companies not just with individuals. Even americans who are considered healthy or "normal weight" eat the most disgusting things like a 4000-10k calories burger. Then you wonder why americans are unhealthy lol. It's because you give them the option to eat all that stupid unhealthy shit. You shouldn't even be allowed to sell some of those things... Schools having vending machines with coca cola and unhealthy snacks is a problem too.

Anyways my point is we should encourage and reward healthy lifestyles. But not punish people who don't live well (for whatever reason) or don't have it as easy as you do.


The company doesn't care about whether or not a person is healthy as long as they're coming in and getting the job done, that's the insurance company's problem..
Actually you'd be surprised at how many people get fired every year because they have cancer. It's a completely heartless thing to do but companies still do it.
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
American College of Sports Medicine activity recommendations:

200 min of moderate intensity activity per week for weight maintenance
250 min of moderate intensity activity per week for weight loss

It can be difficult to do this every week. I'll bet 90% of this site doesn't meet these standards and is considered "inactive" by definition.
Super interesting
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
One of the high schools I went to had a class like that, but it wasn't mandatory.
IMO it should 100% be required, how do you let people into adulthood without giving them the knowledge of what to eat?

I consider myself extremely lucky I decided to educate myself in the matter while battling obesity. There's no such thing as " I don't know" anymore, only " I don't want to". Leaves very little room to fool yourself you're not responsible for your own body.
 
lol the govt loves unhealthy people

forcing them to work out would ruin the $$$$$ in medical field
Exactly. Unhealthy people make the wheels of business go round and round. Imagine the damage to the economy if everyone ate well and stayed in shape. I'm certain Big Pharma wouldn't be too pleased either. They would no doubt rather have people be gluttonous lazy slobs and take their pills.
 

Ninj

Where art thou, MKX Skarlet?
Requiring people to take an active role in their health in order to maintain health insurance wouldn't resolve the root of the problem (outlined well by @deathblooms2k4), but in a time when the 'rules of the game' are created and altered in ways that solely support the top of the pyramid (insurance companies, corporations) opposed to the individual, I would applaud a corporation that put something in place in an attempt to get their employees striving towards a healthier lifestyle. There would be a lot of moving parts to this - it couldn't be so simple as "go to the gym 3x per week" or anything along those lines - the company would most definitely need to hire a certified personal trainer and/or nutritionist to assist employees. Doing this would need to be balanced against the potential cost to the company as well - i.e. is the CPT/nutritionist + the time it takes to educate/outline a plan for employees worth it (financially, perhaps also morally) to the company over time? If yes, it could work (at least in theory).

But then you have the other side of the argument, where attempting this would be potentially infringing on an individuals rights to balloon up to 380 pounds and die of a heart attack at 32.

Tl;dr in a time when change 'for the greater good' is enacted at an all time low in the US government, I would support companies taking uncommon steps to provide the means and incentives for their employees to strive to be better and live better.
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
I think the fact that schools don't have nutritional education classes is bullshit.
Health is a required class in most U.S. schools(at least it is in Texas).

Especially now with Michelle Obama's campaign for healthier school food.