Question - Cryomancer O, Cryomancers, Where Art Thou?

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

Cryomancer.

Swords. Hammers.
Damage. Speed.
Restands. Overheads.
Launchers. Reads.

Sub-Zero has been one of my backups pretty much forever now. I was a Sub main in MK9 (Bi-Han suit FTW) and the art of frozen karate is one I enjoy immensely. But I am one who, since the old buffs to his variation, has been of a very small majority that believes Cryomancer is a very slept on, very dangerous, very capable variation, even given the choice of Grandmaster beside it.
While anyone can see the vast mass appeal in GM and the unique benefits that come from teaming up with the Clone, I have never fully understood why it is that more Sub players haven't leapt in to explore the filthy capabilities of this stance. I know in manners of most things Sub that the word of Lord Brady is often law - and rightfully so, as I am and have always been a pro-Brady enthusiast - and so it is that the majority of the Lin Kuei remains loyal to the Clone. But I want to hear from the faces of the frozen themselves and better understand it; because in the words of Stephen A. Smith, Cryo Sub can BALL, most definitely, and yet we have yet to see him really ascend to a higher plateau competitively.

Talk to me, Sub players. Enlighten me.

 

[Sc012p10n]

Well, I don't kno much about the tiny details, but I'd also like to see cryomancer used more.. he's a beast and has good damage.. I think people are just so caught up trying to make their battles easy for themselves and just want to corner pressure with the clone and play safe.

 

[Jaku2011]

He's so simple there isn't a lot to talk about, but I'm sure plenty of people play him on the side.

 

[Northern Slasher]

I often wondered this myself. It's a great punishing/rush down variation and comes with great damage from just about anywhere.

I wish you could do hammer cancels.

 

[usedcarsalesmang]

He doesn't have really good stagger strings, zoning or advantage on block pressure.
For an MKX character he doesn't really seem viable to me.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

He's so simple there isn't a lot to talk about, but I'm sure plenty of people play him on the side.

I often wondered this myself. It's a great punishing/rush down variation and comes with great damage from just about anywhere.

I wish you could do hammer cancels.

Two of the main reasons behind my question right here.
1. He is, I think inarguably, the easiest character in the game to learn and become proficient with right out of the gate. Especially in comparison to the littany of small nuances that come with learning how to properly use GM's Clone or UB's Parry and judge gravity and size for characters accordingly for his run cancel combos. Literally none of that is a problem in Cryo because of F42 1+3 and F122. Which you would think would result in more Cryo players.
2. I can't for the life of me think of any serious outstanding weakness he suffers from.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

He doesn't have really good stagger strings, zoning or advantage on block pressure.
For an MKX character he doesn't really seem viable to me.

Valid point. But maybe he isn't intended to given the amount of damage he can dish out and how simple a strategy he employs: get in, beat the shit out of you, bait a reaction, repeat.

He's like Brock Lesnar with ice powers.

 

[Tom Brady]

Cryomancer isn't "bad", it just suffers from relying on an unsafe 50/50. Guessing right today? YAY!! CRYO IS GREAT!! Guessing wrong today? Get punished and GGs.

Thats the issue, it is no deeper than overhead or low. If the overhead were safe or safer, Cryo would be more usable. In a game where many have safe 50/50's, Cryo is not one of them.

 

[thlityoursloat]

Cryomancer isn't "bad", it just suffers from relying on an unsafe 50/50. Guessing right today? YAY!! CRYO IS GREAT!! Guessing wrong today? Get punished and GGs.

Thats the issue, it is no deeper than overhead or low. If the overhead were safe or safer, Cryo would be more usable. In a game where many have safe 50/50's, Cryo is not one of them.

-14 with Fast and Furious 6 runway length pushback is not unsafe.

 

[Matador Fiend]

Im not the best cryo but i tried playing it for awhile. Relying on unsafe 50/50 and getting blown up gets old pretty quick and the hammer is so slow that a good amount of the cast can bust its armor without too much trouble. this is supposed to be a rushdown type so imo he shouldve gotten a variation specific poke that is faster than 9f....not a fan

 

[DarksydeDash]

F4 Hammer is your best friend. 4% chip into a jailed hammer with pushback so you can armor. B)

 

[Matix218]

-14 with Fast and Furious 6 runway length pushback is not unsafe.

With scorpion I can punish it with standing 3 no problem, its definitely unsafe enough to be a problem against people who know how to punish it properly imo.

 

[thlityoursloat]

With scorpion I can punish it with standing 3 no problem, its definitely unsafe enough to be a problem against people who know how to punish it properly imo.

Most characters don't have long range 7 frame normals like Scorpion though. Triborg and Jax can punish it with their 10f knees but it's a 3f link is it not? In that case it has to be scouted.
SZ's b33 is also -8 so it's close to being safe.

 

[Matix218]

Most characters don't have long range 7 frame normals like Scorpion though. Triborg and Jax can punish it with their 10f knees but it's a 3f link is it not? In that case it has to be scouted.
SZ's b33 is also -8 so it's close to being safe.

Yeah I don't disagree with you at all. I mean you can look at high level tournament play and see subs b2 go unpunished many times so it is definitely not an easy punish especially for some characters.

 

[boba_buster]

Two of the main reasons behind my question right here.
1. He is, I think inarguably, the easiest character in the game to learn and become proficient with right out of the gate. Especially in comparison to the littany of small nuances that come with learning how to properly use GM's Clone or UB's Parry and judge gravity and size for characters accordingly for his run cancel combos. Literally none of that is a problem in Cryo because of F42 1+3 and F122. Which you would think would result in more Cryo players.
2. I can't for the life of me think of any serious outstanding weakness he suffers from.

His combos may be easy to learn but to use him is a different story , you really have to know the match you are playing. Can the opponent punish b2? What moves can you punish with b2? Etc. he is a punishing character , he doesn't have great tools for opening ppl up , if you don't know what you can punish you won't get those nice 42% b2 combos out

 

[boba_buster]

F4 Hammer is your best friend. 4% chip into a jailed hammer with pushback so you can armor. B)

F4xxhammer is great

 

[Toodrunk2combo]

Cryo is my main, with gm as a backup. He definitely has the damage advantage (30-35% meter less, 40+with meter) and is a lot of fun.

 

[Nuovo_Cabjoy]

Cryomancer isn't "bad", it just suffers from relying on an unsafe 50/50. Guessing right today? YAY!! CRYO IS GREAT!! Guessing wrong today? Get punished and GGs.

Thats the issue, it is no deeper than overhead or low. If the overhead were safe or safer, Cryo would be more usable. In a game where many have safe 50/50's, Cryo is not one of them.

Also has staggers, safe jumps after each hammer and a great throw game. He doesn't just need the 5050's imo. Great AAs and works great as a bait and punish character because of the backdash. It's literally one punish, one read and a throw and he wins the round.

 

[Theflyingrocky]

I mained cryomancer for a long time, but after many many games where I got crushed because people guessed my 50/50 right, f4213 wiffed after hammer. Or double b2 wiffed I have decided to play tarkatan. The one thing to say about cryomancer is he is fun to play and really fun to watch I'd love to see him more in competitive.

 

[True Grave]

Not sure if this is known. After a grounded ice ball, finish the combo with f12. This leaves you with such a massive advantage that you can't be armored when you go into b33 or b2 after. Works both midscreen and corner, but midsceen you need to ex ice ball after the b33.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I don't think Sub-Zero is equipped for the neutral without a Klone. The 9 frame pokes and negative strings. He's a punisher for big damage, he's not horrible imo, but just isn't anything special.

 

[Northern Slasher]

I don't think Sub-Zero is equipped for the neutral without a Klone. The 9 frame pokes and negative strings. He's a punisher for big damage, he's not horrible imo, but just isn't anything special.

He doesn't have that many punishable strings, and cancelling into hammer leaves you quite safe as well. Cryomancer is tons of fun and I play it from time to time just to swtich it up... but I feel so naked without my clone.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

He doesn't have that many punishable strings, and cancelling into hammer leaves you quite safe as well. Cryomancer is tons of fun and I play it from time to time just to swtich it up... but I feel so naked without my clone.

Safety isn't what I was referring to. The negative strings, punishable or not, give up Sub-Zero's turn and he has no pressure. He is fun for sure, but I feel that Grandmaster compensates for Sub-Zero's issues in a way that Cryomancer can't.

 

[Northern Slasher]

Safety isn't what I was referring to. The negative strings, punishable or not, give up Sub-Zero's turn and he has no pressure. He is fun for sure, but I feel that Grandmaster compensates for Sub-Zero's issues in a way that Cryomancer can't.

How about we just make clone a universal move?

 

[boba_buster]

How about we just make clone a universal move?

Honestly I think they should have had a generic clone , maybe mk3 style with the huge cool down. And GM could of had the one he has now