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NRS, please give Spawn more "aim" or better "bullets" (lol)

Ashesfall

Ashesfall

"Feel the wrath of Shao Kahn"
Is Spawn considered the worst aimer in the anti-hero universe?
Or is he shooting with fake bullets?

Crazy design sin ... enjoy the 2 picture "comic" :laughing:

1800718008

When it comes to gameplay. Both guns are high(!) so why not give him full range as it should be? Just duck ...
 
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DanCock

DanCock

Cock Master!!
weird, i find rambos guns to be shitty and Spawns low starting gun to be awesome. player preference i guess.
 
Ashesfall

Ashesfall

"Feel the wrath of Shao Kahn"
the low parry property on his D,B,1 is also for me a very cool tool (d1 also counts!)
as Spawn d1,d3 or d4 on block into ~D,B,1 is a nice counter poke tool + KB
(could honestly be active faster tho, in tekken a low parry is like at frame 3, while tekken on top is also slower, (MK11 d1 is 6-7frames, in tekken a d1 is universal 10frames))

it is just the range on his D,B,1 meter and B,F,1 meter
(a true immersion killer
to stay on that Rambo/Spawn compare
Rambos D,B,2 (without meter) fullscreen gunshots
Spawns guns with(!) meter not fullscreen)

ps: the Brutal on his D,B,1M, is also really nice :D
 
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Obly

Obly

Ambiguous world creator
Spawn's EX guns travel full-screen as long as you make contact with the initial hits. It's only if you whiff but amplify anyway that they have basically no range. It looks ridiculous, I agree, but they obviously didn't want Spawn to be a strong zoner. It is what it is.

His low gun sweep is a great move. Good range, good for eating up last breath. Very fast cancel for multiple b12 mix-ups. Decent parry for punishing counterpokes, with a KB and the ability to cancel and get a full combo punish.

Honestly his AA gun is a good move too, considered on its own. It's just a terrible substitute for necro blast, which Spawn really can't afford to give up. So if they buff anything, I want them to change the AA gun input so it doesn't replace necro blast. Making it bf4 or df4 would be perfect; it would only conflict with Invoking the Legion (who cares, it's a dead move) and Soul Forfeit (bummer, but I can live with not having both at once).
 
Ashesfall

Ashesfall

"Feel the wrath of Shao Kahn"
Obly said:
It looks ridiculous, I agree, but they obviously didn't want Spawn to be a strong zoner. It is what it is.
Click to expand...
How is this even possible, when you have to use a bar of meter, to even get that "zone" type of style?
(strong zoners are known to "spam")

And like fluffy said, his normal fireball is high fullscreen and when you meterburn it, it gets also a fullscreen mid-projectile. And on top, you can delay it, to make it even better to zone with.

So no, i dont think that was their reason.
 
Obly

Obly

Ambiguous world creator
fluffybunbunkittens said:
looks at Spawn's fireball

Erm. That's a fascinating statement to make.
Click to expand...
Ashesfall said:
And like fluffy said, his normal fireball is high fullscreen and when you meterburn it, it gets also a fullscreen mid-projectile. And on top, you can delay it, to make it even better to zone with.
Click to expand...
Necro blast is a great fireball; never said it wasn't. It's also got some weaknesses (has long recovery, EX mid can be low-profiled, opponent can jump out and punish in some situations). And at the end of the day, it mostly does what fireballs do. Having a strong fireball doesn't make you a strong zoner. Would you call Baraka a zoner?

It's pretty clear they wanted Spawn to be a real bully at mid to close range, and in exchange he has to work a bit to get in. He's not helpless full-screen but he's definitely not zoning people out.
 
Ashesfall

Ashesfall

"Feel the wrath of Shao Kahn"
Obly said:
Having a strong fireball doesn't make you a strong zoner. Would you call Baraka a zoner?
Click to expand...
I have never said that spawn is a strong zoner ... it's ok.
I (and fluffy) just said, that his default fireball-tool is a better zoning tool, than his guns even IF(!) they would go fullscreen.
And your argue was, his guns are not fullscreen, else he could be a strong zoner.

The question is, could he be a strong zoner, when his meter-burn(!) version, would go fullscreen like Rambos? No, but it would feel more "realistic"/"immersive", especially when we see with Rambo that it could be like that.

And I think many agree with me, that his default fireball is way better than his gun to pick.
When they opened up the variation system, that move became almost useless.
(one slot used and a replacement? Nah bad deal, that AA gun isnt that good.)

And on Baraka, I would also say, not a "strong" zoner, but he can zone.

ps: One extra argue, the variation system is also meant to pick moves to your personal playstyle/preference.
(little bit more zoning? little bit more dmg? little bit more utility? etc.)
 
Obly

Obly

Ambiguous world creator
Ashesfall said:
I have never said that spawn is a strong zoner ... it's ok.
I (and fluffy) just said, that his default fireball-tool is a better zoning tool, than his guns even IF(!) they would go fullscreen.
And your argue was, his guns are not fullscreen, else he could be a strong zoner.

The question is, could he be a strong zoner, when his meter-burn(!) version, would go fullscreen like Rambos? No, but it would feel more "realistic"/"immersive", especially when we see with Rambo that it could be like that.

And I think many agree with me, that his default fireball is way better than his gun to pick.
When they opened up the variation system, that move became almost useless.
(one slot used and a replacement? Nah bad deal, that AA gun isnt that good.)

And on Baraka, I would also say, not a "strong" zoner, but he can zone.

ps: One extra argue, the variation system is also meant to pick moves to your personal playstyle/preference.
(little bit more zoning? little bit more dmg? little bit more utility? etc.)
Click to expand...
I'm not sure we're really following each other here, but that's fine; this was a strange argument to begin with.

If you look at Spawn's overall design (buttons, specials, movement)--not just one or two moves in isolation--it's very clear that he's not meant to be a "zoning character." Yeah he can do a bit of zoning (as can anyone with a fireball), but it's not how he's meant to win matches; his strengths are in other areas.

If you want to argue that Spawn should have stronger gun moves just from a character lore perspective, agreed, I'm with you on that. But then you also have to say what you're willing to give up to get that. Giving Spawn a Rambo-style MG to zone with, on top of everything else he has, would totally break his current balance. NRS isn't going to dial-up his zoning without dialing him down in other areas.

Could be an interesting discussion to have, but I dare say mostly for kicks. Of the many things the NRS community pisses and moans about, zoning is near top of the list. If NRS really were to turn Spawn into a "zoner", people would lose their shit about it. And he honestly is more interesting and fun to play the way he is. So if you want strong zoning, you should probably play someone else.
 
Ashesfall

Ashesfall

"Feel the wrath of Shao Kahn"
... if I would now answer you, I would start to run in a circle.

So yeah, it seems like we don't understand each other here :laughing:
 
Ashesfall

Ashesfall

"Feel the wrath of Shao Kahn"
Maybe he has trash aim and that is the reason he needs like 18 guns to hit you, I mean if you can't hit with 18 guns, you should really retire in the anti-hero universe :laughing:

"comic" to be continued:
18034
18035
 
DeftMonk

DeftMonk

Warrior
Obly said:
I'm not sure we're really following each other here, but that's fine; this was a strange argument to begin with.

If you look at Spawn's overall design (buttons, specials, movement)--not just one or two moves in isolation--it's very clear that he's not meant to be a "zoning character." Yeah he can do a bit of zoning (as can anyone with a fireball), but it's not how he's meant to win matches; his strengths are in other areas.

If you want to argue that Spawn should have stronger gun moves just from a character lore perspective, agreed, I'm with you on that. But then you also have to say what you're willing to give up to get that. Giving Spawn a Rambo-style MG to zone with, on top of everything else he has, would totally break his current balance. NRS isn't going to dial-up his zoning without dialing him down in other areas.

Could be an interesting discussion to have, but I dare say mostly for kicks. Of the many things the NRS community pisses and moans about, zoning is near top of the list. If NRS really were to turn Spawn into a "zoner", people would lose their shit about it. And he honestly is more interesting and fun to play the way he is. So if you want strong zoning, you should probably play someone else.
Click to expand...
So is Rambo a zoner? I’m assuming by this logic you are saying he is. (I am legit asking as I dropped mk11 long before Rambo came out and have no idea)
 
Obly

Obly

Ambiguous world creator
DeftMonk said:
So is Rambo a zoner? I’m assuming by this logic you are saying he is. (I am legit asking as I dropped mk11 long before Rambo came out and have no idea)
Click to expand...
No, I wouldn't call Rambo a zoner. He does have a full-screen machine gun (I was only referencing this visual aspect) but it's not a good move as far as I can tell (haven't really learned the character yet though). Which honestly should tell you guys everything you need to know about how NRS is approaching these kinds of moves.

For all its other faults, NRS is a studio known for outstanding art direction and realistic visual design; ffs, do you guys really think no one at NRS has noticed that Spawn's MG doesn't go full screen, or had the thought that it should, if realism was the most important thing here? This was a deliberate decision. If you guys want to argue it has nothing to do with balancing out zoning, that's fine, but no one has offered a better explanation. Or if this thread was just meant to be another random rant/complaint with no real purpose, that's fine too--knock yourselves out.
 
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