Eddy Wang
Skarlet scientist
With the amount of time i spend playing other fighting games other than NRS games, they always have those particular tools in training mode which helps not only teach noobs and scrubs some educational data and advanced concepts one can learn if take the game a little bit more serious, but it helps even more so competitive players to have a much better understanding of the game with far more accurate results.
When i talk about Tekken, this game has a recovery animation system which paints characters blue whenever the control type to a players during a moves is assigned as "none" meaning player has no control over a character while those animations are running.
But one of the best things tekken allows you to do is, having about 6 slots which a play rate of 0 to 100 which you can record different setups all starting from the same condition and practice reaction or the best defense when put under similar outcomes, you can also just select movelist and assigns the AI to do some of the moves for you.
Street Fighter brought a different turn, they have recently added a meter which fills and depletes during an action do determine the recover animation of moves on block or whiff, not only they did that but they also were able to successfully apply the FRAME DATA COUNTER inside the game and you can see in the hud whenever you're plus or minus and knowing exactly how plus how minus because the data shows the exact numbers, on top they also added the color code to show plus and minus frames to those who can't understand numbers as much.
And their reversal recording stuff is kinda weird but that's something i don't think its as relevant.
And lastly Dead or Alive 5, a fighting game that was alive from the era where MK9 was still active, added as well a frame data counter which does math whenever you do a move on hit or block, showing how safe it is, how plus you are, the startup and so on.
Which leads me to the following, the NRS engine, one of the things that still generate salt is the frame data imbued in the game, as we know if not mistaken those are added "manually" yeah, someone has to take up Paulo's notes and write it down in the command list of each character.
Do you guys ever imagine how freaking tiresome this is? And you guys have been doing this since Injustice 1, literally 5 years, and the record/playback mode having one slot its not good enough anymore, training mode should definitely improve it needs it.
i'm just a fly in this community my opinion has no weight at all but still NRS, this is more of a cry for improvement than any other thing, we know you've came a long way settling your ground little by little, but you guys are in the big boys league now, your engine is pretty good, but a good game will need a good training mode as well, some of those things needs to be reworked like writing frame data in the game manually across the game lifespan.
We only need two major updates to whatever you may add in the future.
The frame data counter and the record/Playback multiple slots with a playback ratio. These two if well implemente should be more than enough for everyone to start really well in future games, educate new players on the concepts and have less people complaining about stuff they dunno how to lab in first place, and NRS would actually save time they used on updating the game with frame data manually withing each entry, this time would usefully be applied into something else or even a break.
As far as we know NRS already takes part of the frame data counter concept to determine either a move is a punish or a counter hit, dunno exactly how they do this considering there were still errors which they fixed with the current injustice 2 patch
But the concept of a frame data counter application its simpler than it looks take a look at the red box in this picture:
Oops too short and blurry? its basically a debug mode which i will amplify down below and give you guys some hints on what is possible a frame counter and so on.
The picture above shows the total time a game is running, like it starts whenever you're in some part of the game, in this case the training mode.
the second line is just the name of the character.
The action ID its the animation which is currently running, 0 means its the stance animation, elemno its the amount of still images the animation has, in this case it has 10 and in this particular time frame its running the elem number 6 of 10 still animations, remember that there is still time which determine the time an animation is being run through, but Mugen is that limited that separating startup active and recovery would need some additional codding from a developer part, like saying all time before active collision box is startup, all time during collision box is active and all time post active collision box is recovery.
Stateno: indicates the code being run currently, 0 means the code being run is for stance.
CTRL: means control, 1 means that player has control over a character, meaning if for example Jataaka used an attack this control would switch to 0 so she couldn't control while the move is being executed, basic gaming concept.
And more importantly Movetype which implies the character is attacking, being hit or just idling.
NRS could easily bring these same concepts and engineer a much dynamic frame data counter, which could also determine a state by it time that is being run and split this time into startup, active and recovery and then with some math adding block advantage and hit advantage, important information the training engine would then deliver to the players via some hud, then they wouldn't have to worry about input data in the command list manually, and we would have some really strong auxiliary tools to practice stuff in training mode.
Many may feel its unneeded, but hell i miss those features in MKX a lot and there is like a huge amount i couldn't really do it on my own and took time to research a good amount of things which were made public back then.
When i talk about Tekken, this game has a recovery animation system which paints characters blue whenever the control type to a players during a moves is assigned as "none" meaning player has no control over a character while those animations are running.
But one of the best things tekken allows you to do is, having about 6 slots which a play rate of 0 to 100 which you can record different setups all starting from the same condition and practice reaction or the best defense when put under similar outcomes, you can also just select movelist and assigns the AI to do some of the moves for you.
Street Fighter brought a different turn, they have recently added a meter which fills and depletes during an action do determine the recover animation of moves on block or whiff, not only they did that but they also were able to successfully apply the FRAME DATA COUNTER inside the game and you can see in the hud whenever you're plus or minus and knowing exactly how plus how minus because the data shows the exact numbers, on top they also added the color code to show plus and minus frames to those who can't understand numbers as much.
And their reversal recording stuff is kinda weird but that's something i don't think its as relevant.
And lastly Dead or Alive 5, a fighting game that was alive from the era where MK9 was still active, added as well a frame data counter which does math whenever you do a move on hit or block, showing how safe it is, how plus you are, the startup and so on.
Which leads me to the following, the NRS engine, one of the things that still generate salt is the frame data imbued in the game, as we know if not mistaken those are added "manually" yeah, someone has to take up Paulo's notes and write it down in the command list of each character.
Do you guys ever imagine how freaking tiresome this is? And you guys have been doing this since Injustice 1, literally 5 years, and the record/playback mode having one slot its not good enough anymore, training mode should definitely improve it needs it.
i'm just a fly in this community my opinion has no weight at all but still NRS, this is more of a cry for improvement than any other thing, we know you've came a long way settling your ground little by little, but you guys are in the big boys league now, your engine is pretty good, but a good game will need a good training mode as well, some of those things needs to be reworked like writing frame data in the game manually across the game lifespan.
We only need two major updates to whatever you may add in the future.
The frame data counter and the record/Playback multiple slots with a playback ratio. These two if well implemente should be more than enough for everyone to start really well in future games, educate new players on the concepts and have less people complaining about stuff they dunno how to lab in first place, and NRS would actually save time they used on updating the game with frame data manually withing each entry, this time would usefully be applied into something else or even a break.
As far as we know NRS already takes part of the frame data counter concept to determine either a move is a punish or a counter hit, dunno exactly how they do this considering there were still errors which they fixed with the current injustice 2 patch
But the concept of a frame data counter application its simpler than it looks take a look at the red box in this picture:
Oops too short and blurry? its basically a debug mode which i will amplify down below and give you guys some hints on what is possible a frame counter and so on.
The picture above shows the total time a game is running, like it starts whenever you're in some part of the game, in this case the training mode.
the second line is just the name of the character.
The action ID its the animation which is currently running, 0 means its the stance animation, elemno its the amount of still images the animation has, in this case it has 10 and in this particular time frame its running the elem number 6 of 10 still animations, remember that there is still time which determine the time an animation is being run through, but Mugen is that limited that separating startup active and recovery would need some additional codding from a developer part, like saying all time before active collision box is startup, all time during collision box is active and all time post active collision box is recovery.
Stateno: indicates the code being run currently, 0 means the code being run is for stance.
CTRL: means control, 1 means that player has control over a character, meaning if for example Jataaka used an attack this control would switch to 0 so she couldn't control while the move is being executed, basic gaming concept.
And more importantly Movetype which implies the character is attacking, being hit or just idling.
NRS could easily bring these same concepts and engineer a much dynamic frame data counter, which could also determine a state by it time that is being run and split this time into startup, active and recovery and then with some math adding block advantage and hit advantage, important information the training engine would then deliver to the players via some hud, then they wouldn't have to worry about input data in the command list manually, and we would have some really strong auxiliary tools to practice stuff in training mode.
Many may feel its unneeded, but hell i miss those features in MKX a lot and there is like a huge amount i couldn't really do it on my own and took time to research a good amount of things which were made public back then.
Last edited:
