Question - Noxious Noxious (Normalization)

[OFIDYAN]

So guys I think many people would agree that Noxious is Reptile's weakest variation. I've even read "all it does is not get you flawlessed" or something a long those lines. Which is very true. Did you know that you don't even do 1% damage to the opponent when you are being thrown by the entire throw animation?

I think Deceptive is the strongest, and Nimble is great too, but Noxious could use a few things to balance it out.

Do you have any suggestions? I'll give you some of my humble changes so see what you think!

-dd3 when using meter should not go away when being hit, however the length of the duration should be decreased.

-df1 when using meter should continue to do dots if they were standing or laying in it at anytime after they move or jump out.

-b34 should be more punishable (I'm talking everyone in the cast should be able to punish it with at least a poke)
(Universal change I know)

-and personally I think the natural aura of noxious should reach a little further and do .25 instead of .20


Again these are just my thoughts, from playing a lot and using all variations. Keep in mind I play many other characters. Quan Chi, Tremor, Kenshi, and a few others at a high level. I just feel like Reptile was sold a bit short when it comes to the versatility of his variations.

Feel free to let me know if I'm a dumbass.

 

[Alright RyRy]

I still prefer to use Noxious over the other 2. Saving meter for AA and Anti Cross ups is super nice. And not having to use my meter to go invisible or to get a tad more damage in a combo.

Getting free damage is nice also.

but, I agree EX DD3 needs to stay on hit.

Deceptive - Needs to be able to stop forces balls without meter, and Camo goes 1 stage less (normal DD3) on block.

 

[Zaccel]

I don't mind the fairly low range on the passive aura--it encourages you to do dd3, and that's not so bad.

I agree that the dd3 should stick around on hit, but I wouldn't mind the meterless version staying either. Since it scales down so fast when you're being hit, having it stick would make the passive damage worth writing home about with minimal changes. It would diversify Reptile's meter economy across the variations and change Noxious' defensive game, which I like. Bumping up the ticks on the passive to .25 would be cool, but in my opinion inessential, at least compared the other ways it could be improved.

I just want EX df1 to have parity with Erron's caltrops, since they seem like they'd be more similar on paper.

I'm tempted to agree with increasing b34's recovery, but I'm curious why you bring that up with Noxious changes. If you could clarify I'd be able to offer a better stance on that.

 

[ATP2014]

@OFIDYAN You're a dumbass. But I'm cool with these changes. Gonna learn the reptile MU soon.

Also, #INJUSTICE.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

So guys I think many people would agree that Noxious is Reptile's weakest variation. I've even read "all it does is not get you flawlessed" or something a long those lines. Which is very true. Did you know that you don't even do 1% damage to the opponent when you are being thrown by the entire throw animation?

I think Deceptive is the strongest, and Nimble is great too, but Noxious could use a few things to balance it out.

Do you have any suggestions? I'll give you some of my humble changes so see what you think!

-dd3 when using meter should not go away when being hit, however the length of the duration should be decreased.

-df1 when using meter should continue to do dots if they were standing or laying in it at anytime after they move or jump out.

-b34 should be more punishable (I'm talking everyone in the cast should be able to punish it with at least a poke)
(Universal change I know)

-and personally I think the natural aura of noxious should reach a little further and do .25 instead of .20


Again these are just my thoughts, from playing a lot and using all variations. Keep in mind I play many other characters. Quan Chi, Tremor, Kenshi, and a few others at a high level. I just feel like Reptile was sold a bit short when it comes to the versatility of his variations.

Feel free to let me know if I'm a dumbass.

I agree it's his worse, I see no purpose in using noxious when deceptive is the clear winner however nimble is still very strong

Ex dd3 shouldn't go away on hit or block would be a great buff but dd3 should go away on hit and block

Spit IMO should do more damage in noxious and have a little bit of a sting to it . Like if you're hit by spit it should do more dmG and if you block it then do .20 3-4 x after . Would be kinda cool


Also is b3 ex dd3 a real thing in noxious? It should be like it is w deceptive

But for real deceptive is strongest

 

[Braindead]

I still prefer to use Noxious over the other 2. Saving meter for AA and Anti Cross ups is super nice.

Wait you get hit with the stank if you jump at Reptile?

 

[Zaccel]

Wait you get hit with the stank if you jump at Reptile?

Nah brah, just that you're using meter for other things with EX dd3 in other variations. Noxious doesn't use it much, so it has fuel in the tank for EX db2 more often.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Wait you get hit with the stank if you jump at Reptile?

Omg now that's a good idea

Scorpion flame aura = reptile ex stink

Now we're talking

@OFIDYAN @Alright RyRy
@G4S J360

 

[Braindead]

Omg now that's a good idea

Scorpion flame aura = reptile ex stink

Now we're talking

@OFIDYAN @Alright RyRy
@G4S J360

Awesome idea. That would certainly give the variation a meaningful reason to pick it IMO. Kind of a blow up it doesn't do that already lol.

 

[OFIDYAN]

I still prefer to use Noxious over the other 2. Saving meter for AA and Anti Cross ups is super nice. And not having to use my meter to go invisible or to get a tad more damage in a combo.

Getting free damage is nice also.

but, I agree EX DD3 needs to stay on hit.

Deceptive - Needs to be able to stop forces balls without meter, and Camo goes 1 stage less (normal DD3) on block.

I don't mind the fairly low range on the passive aura--it encourages you to do dd3, and that's not so bad.

I agree that the dd3 should stick around on hit, but I wouldn't mind the meterless version staying either. Since it scales down so fast when you're being hit, having it stick would make the passive damage worth writing home about with minimal changes. It would diversify Reptile's meter economy across the variations and change Noxious' defensive game, which I like. Bumping up the ticks on the passive to .25 would be cool, but in my opinion inessential, at least compared the other ways it could be improved.

I just want EX df1 to have parity with Erron's caltrops, since they seem like they'd be more similar on paper.

I'm tempted to agree with increasing b34's recovery, but I'm curious why you bring that up with Noxious changes. If you could clarify I'd be able to offer a better stance on that.

@OFIDYAN You're a dumbass. But I'm cool with these changes. Gonna learn the reptile MU soon.

Also, #INJUSTICE.

Lol @ATP2014 who will you be learning the Reptile MU from? I guarantee I'll body them not only in the mirror, but in Reptile knowledge Bro you're going down in Injustice as well. Your DS is not ready for my GL!

You guys make some good points. I love that Deceptive idea!!! Reptile needs more diversity like that. Noxious is the most bare and yeah it's great to not use meter, but I can assure after thousands of matches that I've played and all the casuals at NEC this weekend that I can play No Variation and do pretty much just as good as Noxious does every single time. That is saying something for sure. I bring up the b34 thing because I think for everyone in the game.. they should have at least one of their mixups be punishable (unless they use meter) it would totally revamp the game.

I don't know if anyone else feels like this, but variations have been buffed and nerfed to the point where it is stupid to even use some of them now. It's like being sold three paintings. Loving them, then one day you come home and someone installed nice lighting for two of them, then one of them got f'up and shit on. A good example is fisticuffs Johnny Cage, or how about Tanya?? Two great paintings were fucked up. Now all you have is Kobu.

I just hope all variations reach equal viability one day. Noxious is definitely in need of something

Just watch when Bo Rai Cho comes out, he's gonna have the good stuff that Reptile should've had.

 

[Griszly]

I think that his spit in other variations should go down from 8% to 6% and up from 8% to 9% damage in noxious. I think his forceballs should be cancelable/be able to charge (like when you EX them) and decide when they are let go WITHOUT METER. Also do a little bit more damage cause this variation should specialize in his saliva/green stank. Give him some more zoning (deceptive and nimble are pretty rushdown oriented. And the move f213+1 does a little more damage.

 

[ATP2014]

I was planning on learning and using him myself actually. Not as a counter pick or secondary, but training as him to learn his frames, setups, and general strategy.

Also my DS is the best, come at me breh.

 

[OFIDYAN]

I was planning on learning and using him myself actually. Not as a counter pick or secondary, but training as him to learn his frames, setups, and general strategy.

Also my DS is the best, come at me breh.

That's awesome man! I'll show you anything you need to know! And I did some guides if you wanna check any of those out. Should be a good start and it was a community effort somewhat, so they cover a lot in a short time.

 

[Butcherd666]

forceball cancels would be amazing

 

[OFIDYAN]

Fb cancels may be too much lol, but it would help him build meter! Maybe if they were slightly negative that wouldn't be too op

 

[Griszly]

That'd work. I'd also like anything (the f2 grab, spit, force balls) to do damage over time like errons caltrops or stab. And maybe not cancels but like you could charge it like jax's wave

 

[NYCj360]

I actually think noxious and deceptive are equally as strong in different matchups.

I will have to disagree with any further changes, noxious is fine the way it is.

 

[stamatis]

Wait you get hit with the stank if you jump at Reptile?

Dude,is this question real?

 

[NYCj360]

Matchups i would use noxious for

Jax - Wrestler
Sonya - Covert Ops
Kano - Cutthroat/Commando
Johnny Cage - All Variations
Erron Black - Outlaw
Liu Kang - Dragon Fire/Flame Fist
Scorpion - Hellfire
Kotal Khan - Blood God
Sub zero - All Variations
Ferra torr - Lackey
Dvorah - All Variations
Quan Chi - All Variations (Deceptive and Noxious are interchangeable)
Jacqui - High tech
Goro - Dragon Fangs/Kuatan
Jason - Unstoppable
Predator - All Variations (Deceptive and Noxious are interchangeable)
Tanya - Kobu (Deceptive and Noxious are interchangeable)

 

[stamatis]

Fb cancels may be too much lol, but it would help him build meter! Maybe if they were slightly negative that wouldn't be too op

I don't thing reptile has a meter building problem,especially in deceptive variation,I believe that most of the chars have a weak variant and this is happening here too,there is no reason not to choose deceptive.I heard above that someone doesn't want to use meter so he picks noxious.(?)the advantage you have combined with the chip and mix ups when you are invisible are huge.
I don't know how an upcoming patch will affect the lizard but I do not think they will touch him!

 

[Braindead]

Matchups i would use noxious for

Jax - Wrestler
Sonya - Covert Ops
Kano - Cutthroat/Commando
Johnny Cage - All Variations
Erron Black - Outlaw
Liu Kang - Dragon Fire/Flame Fist
Scorpion - Hellfire
Kotal Khan - Blood God
Sub zero - All Variations
Ferra torr - Lackey
Dvorah - All Variations
Quan Chi - All Variations (Deceptive and Noxious are interchangeable)
Jacqui - High tech
Goro - Dragon Fangs/Kuatan
Jason - Unstoppable
Predator - All Variations (Deceptive and Noxious are interchangeable)
Tanya - Kobu (Deceptive and Noxious are interchangeable)

Can you give me a reason why you would generally pick noxious over other variations in these MUs? Honest question.

 

[dribirut]

So guys I think many people would agree that Noxious is Reptile's weakest variation. I've even read "all it does is not get you flawlessed" or something a long those lines. Which is very true. Did you know that you don't even do 1% damage to the opponent when you are being thrown by the entire throw animation?

I think Deceptive is the strongest, and Nimble is great too, but Noxious could use a few things to balance it out.

Do you have any suggestions? I'll give you some of my humble changes so see what you think!

-dd3 when using meter should not go away when being hit, however the length of the duration should be decreased.

-df1 when using meter should continue to do dots if they were standing or laying in it at anytime after they move or jump out.

-b34 should be more punishable (I'm talking everyone in the cast should be able to punish it with at least a poke)
(Universal change I know)

-and personally I think the natural aura of noxious should reach a little further and do .25 instead of .20


Again these are just my thoughts, from playing a lot and using all variations. Keep in mind I play many other characters. Quan Chi, Tremor, Kenshi, and a few others at a high level. I just feel like Reptile was sold a bit short when it comes to the versatility of his variations.

Feel free to let me know if I'm a dumbass.

Im sorry but hellll no about b34 Haha well ill just use the other low at that point. I used to think noxious was his weakwst but now i realize imo its his strongest in a lot of mus

 

[NYCj360]

Can you give me a reason why you would generally pick noxious over other variations in these MUs? Honest question.

I'll give you 3 prime examples

-Kano Cutthroat uses an ex buff that drains his own health as he is comboing you or attempting to combo you. Mixed with the fact that you have a passive aura that speeds up that process, it is most certainly unfavorable for him to ever pick that variation on reptile. Especially when attempting to make a comeback.

-Johnny Cage- Johnny Cages pressure is quite good and requires him to stay on top of you for the most part. Attempting a zoning war is not the best of ideas especially since his fireballs also do 8%. When fighting a johnny cage you will be in a position where even if you have a life lead, johnny can come back by simply making you block once and mounting an offense. Noxious helps limit any sort of comeback potential that johnny may have in these situations. Even with it only doing .20% ticks, it stacks up over time seeing as how johnnys pressure can last quite a while in all variations.

- Kotal Khan - Blood good has the best control of his life bar in the entire game. When fighting blood good you need to be able to hack away at his health as much as you can. He has no armored wakeups so the safeness of cancelling into an invis move off of a meaty normal used to nullify armored wakeups is no longer necessary. Instead you can have added damage to each and every situation where you are clawing away at kotal and vice versa. Your zoning will still be in tact and there will be no need for stealth activation in this matchup since he only has one projectile which will be impossible to get out if you are zoning properly.

Overall Noxious still has a feature that is unparalleled in this game, if someone is below 5% their comeback potential is almost completely stripped away and you get rewarded for blocking. Reptile can still play his game, since he is always on top of you the .20% adds up way more than it may seem to. I feel that the variation is strong as is and there are many ways to use his acid puddles and stink activates mid match. I feel that if this character is buffed in any way it may end up resulting in a nerf that may do more harm then good later on down the line.

Any character that needs to maintain an offense within reptiles gas cloud will have issues in this matchup. The passive aura also promotes his offense seeing as how most of the match reptile will be on top of you if he doesn't need to zone you.

 

[dribirut]

These are the universal nerfs i would give reptile so his different variation specials could be buffed:
Make b2 -3

Gap between f412 and klaw swipe

Make swipe -7

Less hit advantag on b34

Less hit adv on slide

 

[Braindead]

I'll give you 3 prime examples

-Kano Cutthroat uses an ex buff that drains his own health as he is comboing you or attempting to combo you. Mixed with the fact that you have a passive aura that speeds up that process, it is most certainly unfavorable for him to ever pick that variation on reptile. Especially when attempting to make a comeback.

-Johnny Cage- Johnny Cages pressure is quite good and requires him to stay on top of you for the most part. Attempting a zoning war is not the best of ideas especially since his fireballs also do 8%. When fighting a johnny cage you will be in a position where even if you have a life lead, johnny can come back by simply making you block once and mounting an offense. Noxious helps limit any sort of comeback potential that johnny may have in these situations. Even with it only doing .20% ticks, it stacks up over time seeing as how johnnys pressure can last quite a while in all variations.

- Kotal Khan - Blood good has the best control of his life bar in the entire game. When fighting blood good you need to be able to hack away at his health as much as you can. He has no armored wakeups so the safeness of cancelling into an invis move off of a meaty normal used to nullify armored wakeups is no longer necessary. Instead you can have added damage to each and every situation where you are clawing away at kotal and vice versa. Your zoning will still be in tact and there will be no need for stealth activation in this matchup since he only has one projectile which will be impossible to get out if you are zoning properly.

Overall Noxious still has a feature that is unparalleled in this game, if someone is below 5% their comeback potential is almost completely stripped away and you get rewarded for blocking. Reptile can still play his game, since he is always on top of you the .20% adds up way more than it may seem to. I feel that the variation is strong as is and there are many ways to use his acid puddles and stink activates mid match. I feel that if this character is buffed in any way it may end up resulting in a nerf that may do more harm then good later on down the line.

Any character that needs to maintain an offense within reptiles gas cloud will have issues in this matchup. The passive aura also promotes his offense seeing as how most of the match reptile will be on top of you if he doesn't need to zone you.

Great reasoning. I'm 100% convinced.