Breakthrough - Grandmaster New Corner Shatter Tech

[GhostlyMachine]

This will be a long post. If you prefer the doc version, here is the link.

We all know the original shatter combos are not ideal for us because the klone is too far away, 12 is gimmicky, and the B2 can be blocked on reaction since it’s not up close. I have been working on new klone positions that place it closer to the opponent in the corner and still allow for shatter combos to juggle and thus high damage. I have now found a setup that allows for shatter combos without compromising klone distance. To kick things off, I’ll introduce the main findings:

1. 44-51% OH (meter and meterless options will be explained)
2. 36-46% Low (meterless)
3. Forward throw option available
4. Safe low option against 2/3 of the cast
5. Safe low option damage against all females

Overhead Option (Male)

Meterless Combos:

• B2 24~IceBurst b12~Klone NJP JP2 123/b12 Slide = 51%
• B2 24~IceBurst b12~Klone NJP JP2 f12 = 49%

Extremely high damage for no bar. However, the timing on the 24 is very strict and must be hit early. It can be tricky but can be executed consistently with practice. It is situational because it assumes the opponent is both standing and not blocking or crouching and not blocking. If the opponent crouches and blocks (as you might expect) then 24~Iceburst will not juggle the opponent high enough. Hence, you should always opt for the meter version below.

One Bar Combos:

• B2 24~FrostBomb 1 b12~Klone NJP JP2 123/b12 Slide = 46%
• B2 24~FrostBomb 1 b12~Klone NJP JP2 f12 = 44%

The meter version also is very lenient on the klone placement. That is, the klone can be placed ANYWHERE, except extreme proximity where B2 will actually hit the opponent into the klone, for the one bar combo to work.

Low Option (Male)

Meterless Combos:

• B33~IceBurst 1 11~Klone NJP JP2 123 Slide = 41%
• B33~IceBurst 1 11~Klone NJP JP2 f12 = 39%
• B33~IceBurst 1 11~Klone NJP NJK = 36%

For the B33 to reach the male opponent, SZ must take a small step forward or you may choose to run in. You may also step forward or run for the B2 option to make it even harder for the opponent to tell which option you opted for.

The reason why I have bolded the last combo is to highlight the fact that it will produce another shatter setup. Hence, the last combo is a good option to loop back into the setup if you think 41% will not kill the opponent or if you do not wish to have the extreme close klone setup after the f12 option.

Low Option (Big Characters)

Meterless Combos:

• B33~IceBurst 1 b12~Klone NJP JP2 b12 Slide = 46%
• B33~IceBurst 1 b12~Klone NJP JP2 f12 = 44%
• B33~IceBurst 1 b12~Klone NJP NJK = 40%

Kotal Kahn, Raiden, Goro, Tremor.

Throw Option (Male and Female)

Meterless Combo:

• Throw (back or forwards) tech roll run~242 NJP JP1 NJK = 21%
• Klone after NJK

This combo allows for consistent setup into the shatter combos. For this to work, the JP1 must be slightly delayed as shown in the video. The timing is very easy to get down and I have found this works most consistently compared to other options such as NJP NJK or NJP JP2/4 B33D4 which are too variable on the klone placement.

Low Option Findings

Why would you choose to do B33~IceBurst rather than B33~Iceball OS? Because B33 is -8 on block with no pushback whereas B33~Iceburst has a lot of pushback and is safe against most of the cast. In fact, from my tests, only 11/29 characters can punish the B33~IceBurst on block. This is a lot safer than B33~Iceball OS on block since SZ will be up close and ready to be punished by almost everyone.

Punishers (red indicates meter requirement)

· Predator: D4 known as Combi Strike (8SU-Low)

· Jax: Dash Punch (10f-High)

· Scorpion: Takedown (11f-Low)

· Shinnok: Hell Blast (7f-Mid)

· Johnny Cage: Shadow Kick and Eclipse Kick (11f-High)

• A-List has the Flashy Shadow Kick version which cannot punish despite also being (11f-High)

• However, A-List also includes the Eclipse Kick

· Ermac (Spectral): Soul Charge (10f-Mid)

· Reptile: Reptilian Dash (8f-Mid) and Slide (9f-Low)

· Quan Chi (Warlock): Portal Kick (11f-Mid) has a tight window to punish

· Goro (Kuatan Warrior): Chest Lunge (10f-Unblockable)

· Takeda (Ronin): Double Shirai Ryu Kan (11f-Mid)

· Sub-Zero: Slide (9f-Low)

*If only the meterless special is listed then the meter version will also punish. However, if only the meter special is listed such as Shinnok and Takeda then the meterless special will not punish.

The low B33~IceBurst option works heavily in SZ’s favour due to not only being safe against most of the cast, Takeda and Shinnok need one bar of meter to punish SZ and thus relieve some corner pressure, Predator can only poke, and Spectral Ermac isn’t viable at this stage anyway.

Females

Unfortunately, I have not been able to find a consistent setup that allows for all of the options given against males. I have found setups that works for the low option but takes away the overhead, etc. There are more complicated variables to consider with the females such as their lower juggle when crouch blocking a B2 compared to standing. Until either I or the community find a similar setup to the males, i.e. NJP JP1 NJK sets up all possible combinations post knockdown, I would recommend sticking to the usual SZ corner game against females. Regardless, you can still use B33~Iceburst for 24% and safe klone setup if you opt for the right spacing. It is also safe against all female characters on block.

Very Small/No Pushback

B33~Iceburst will not pushback against certain characters with the small step forward. For pushback, SZ will need to be slightly in front of the klone, i.e. you may as well go for the run in B33. Whilst these characters can still punish SZ, maximum pushback is better than no pushback in case they do not punish.

· Takeda

· Reptile

· Jax

· Shinnok

· Sub-Zero (inconsistent pushback)

Why 12~Iceburst is not a good option

So why would B33~IceBurst work better than 12 when 12 doesn’t even require you step forward? Well, 12 is easier to block against than taking a step forward and choosing B33 or B2. Opponents should be blocking low and may react to the OH in time. The 12 shatter negates that option. Why risk using a gimmick when you are already set with the perfect positioning to have a 50/50 at a full combo?

Limitations

For the OH B2 option to work in time, it must be executed relatively swiftly after the klone is out. The opponent may now choose to use an armoured wake-up and nullify the shatter combo. Hence, these shatter options are best reserved for when opponent has either no meter or poor wake-up attacks. However, this still works in SZ’s favour outlined below.

More than a 50/50

Whilst this klone placement may be half a centimetre further away than your usual NJP NJK Klone setup, it still gives you the option to throw backwards AND forwards. The opponent may be fearing the 50/50 damage so much that you may opt for a throw combo instead.

Going back to the armoured wake-up option for the opponent. This now gives you more mind-games than ever. You do not HAVE to do a shatter combo, rather it becomes as bait for the opponent to wake-up with an unsafe armoured special. The opponent may now be scared to wake-up at the next knockdown/setup and you have the choice to risk using a shatter combo here.

The shatter combos also do not take away the patience game that you may prefer. A typical Klone setup (then wait for opponent to do something such as try to poke out or jump) that forces the opponent to hang themselves is still there as an option. The opponent may be so scared you can just wait and then choose to do the vanilla B2 B2 1/D1 B12 Klone NJP NJP/F12 combo, raw shatter and run in for a hit confirmable klone mid-combo, throws, or even your B33~Iceball Option Select. Thus, your vanilla SZ corner combos are STILL THERE.

So Sub-Zero now has a lot of options to shut down the opponent based on their fear of getting hit by a high damage shatter combo.

Klone Positioning

So how do we get the ideal klone positioning for these shatter techs?

• B2 B2 1/D1 B12 Klone (walk up) NJP NJK = 33%
• Throw combos listed
• B33~Iceball JP1 242 NJP JP2 NJK = 23%
  • JP2 and NJK same timing as in the throw combo
• B12~Iceball JP1 242 NJP JP2 NJK = 27%
  • JP2 and NJK same timing as in the throw combo
• Other combos such as F4~Iceball, F42~IceBlast that end with the JP2 NJK should also set up the shatter klone tech

Be aware that B2 B2 1 1 B12 Klone NJP NJK etc will not yield the shatter klone setup because the extra 1 will place the airborne klone too low and thus not push SZ further enough for a meterless B2 and B33 shatter.

Whilst the combos listed will work for females, the B2 B2 is trickier due to lower juggle.

To see the klone placement against the background in Lin Kuei temple (which I used to test for reliability purposes), the fingers of the forehand of the klone must be within ~1-2cm of the crook in the branch on the right hand side of the stage. Images of ideal placement and placements that are too close will be provided in the links below.*

If the klone is too close, you can still do the B2 meter shatter but the B2 24~IceBurst and B33~Iceburst will not juggle and will only do 17%.

Final Words

This process began with testing out the exklone and took over 2 weeks before I came up with these findings. This is by no means the definite end product and hopefully the SZ community can help it further. Let’s find any holes and tweaks in the current setup and explore consistent corner combo setups for females. It is time to take Sub-Zero to the next level.

* Images will be uploaded soon.

 

[Savage8-8]

Just to let you know the 24 shatter combos are already known. You can find all the setups,damage, and inputs in the GM forum.

 

[GhostlyMachine]

Yes I saw them after I had already made my findings. However, they did not go into the details that I listed. And they assumed that B2 24~Iceburst would work against a non-blocking standing opponent in the corner. Not really viable.

 

[zoofs]

some of this is good testing but simply none of this is new, sorry.

 

[RM_NINfan101]

It may not be new, but still worth implementing into your game yeah?

... Or is Sub just overall that bad now that it's not worth it anymore? (legit question)

EDIT: Also, it never hurts to further elaborate on things with more testing and show your findings.

 

[Savage8-8]

It may not be new, but still worth implementing into your game yeah?

... Or is Sub just overall that bad now that it's not worth it anymore? (legit question)

EDIT: Also, it never hurts to further elaborate on things with more testing and show your findings.

No issue with the details. Good write up. But the title says its new. Thats my only problem

 

[GhostlyMachine]

If you want to be pedantic, it is new because no one has posted a consistent klone setup that is as close to the opponent as mine and still allow for both shatter options to juggle. I am more than happy to be corrected.

I never said the combos were new, just the setups are.

 

[zoofs]

It may not be new, but still worth implementing into your game yeah?

... Or is Sub just overall that bad now that it's not worth it anymore? (legit question)

EDIT: Also, it never hurts to further elaborate on things with more testing and show your findings.

nah it has nothing to do with sub being bad, it's just most of this stuff is pretty situational and gimmicky regardless of the starter. Double b2 into regular setup like shown is still inconsistent, especially against females. I've been personally using b33 shatter for a long time due to the fact that it's safer than the OS but I don't even bother at all on females and half the time on males due to spacing. I appreciate that the OP compiled this information to give more sub players the general idea of what shatter stuff to be using if you do, but the title is misleading.

 

[RM_NINfan101]

Yeah, perhaps renaming it to something such as: How to optimalize Shatter might be better idk. It isn't new at all but it does have some really juicy bits.

 

[RM Ree]

Off throw into clone, higher damage/ safe clone combo is b2, 242, f12 (male) or b2, 242, b334 (female).

Combo into clone, then into shatter at the same time with f4 xx ice statue f42 xx ice burst, d1, b12 xx ice blast, njp, jip, f12, clone. 2 bars, males only.

I'd like to see some more testing on ice statue frame traps into shatter combos and anti-air shatter conversions since neutral jumping is such a popular option when jailed behind clone.