My honest thoughts on all these threads and posts calling MK9 unbalanced..

[ForeverKing]

LBSH, Kung Lao is one of the most balanced top tier characters in any fighting game. And no, I'm not trolling. He's great, he's got a shitload of tools, yet all of them are extremely punishable, and he can't simply abuse them at will against all of the casts, and is forced to take a different approach against low hitbox characters.

Fuck yeah ^^^

 

[YoungTrunks]

I'd say 20 characters are tourney viable out of a 31? (not sure lol) cast. That is pretty damn balanced to me!

 

[Rathalos]

The balance is mostly fine.

The only problems are Kabal, not a big problem, but he could use a slight tweak, specifically nerf his meter gain into the ground.

However, Kano, Cyber Sub-Zero, Sheeva, and Raiden are poorly designed characters who need a complete overhaul for the next game.

 

[Qwark28]

The fact that he doesnt have any moves faster than 12 frames
The fact that he doesnt have launchers less than 17 frames
The fact that most of the things you describe do very little damage
The fact that armor can blow through any way he can get damage
The fact that it is humanly impossible to space blade charge perfectly everytime

A couple of others but speed of his moves is the main one.

someone is actually excited to play baraka and is listing things that he discovered and loves about him and you blown that shit up

idk whether to laugh or cry

 

[Zoidberg747]

someone is actually excited to play baraka and is listing things that he discovered and loves about him and you blown that shit up

idk whether to laugh or cry

He asked what was bad about him. I answered.

Everything hr said is completely true, and why Baraka is not complete shit. But lets face it, he is bottom five. Not because of his lack of tools necessarily, but because he doesnt have enough BS to compete with higher tiers. I will never sugarcoat anything I think about Baraka, and most people know how I have argued matchups to the death that I think he goes even in or wins. But I also can tell you why he is bad, and tell you his problems.

Being a good player requires you to not only know your characters strengths but to also know their weaknesses and how to get around them.

For example:
Slow launchers and moves- Use pokes to fish for frame advantage to make moves safer, know ranges of moves like b32 slices and how you can safely use them, use moves like sweep in the corner to guarantee more pressure, and when you do get a launcher always take more frame advantage like with b31 b31 F4(+12) to set up more of your offense.

 

[Qwark28]

He asked what was bad about him. I answered.

Everything hr said is completely true, and why Baraka is not complete shit. But lets face it, he is bottom five. Not because of his lack of tools necessarily, but because he doesnt have enough BS to compete with higher tiers. I will never sugarcoat anything I think about Baraka, and most people know how I have argued matchups to the death that I think he goes even in or wins. But I also can tell you why he is bad, and tell you his problems.

Being a good player requires you to not only know your characters strengths but to also know their weaknesses and how to get around them.

For example:
Slow launchers and moves- Use pokes to fish for frame advantage to make moves safer, know ranges of moves like b32 slices and how you can safely use them, use moves like sweep in the corner to guarantee more pressure, and when you do get a launcher always take more frame advantage like with b31 b31 F4(+12) to set up more of your offense.

hadnt seen him saying that my bad

 

[Critical-Limit]

I agree with the OP.

Let me use another game as example, one that's lived longer than a decade with ZERO patches.


I have a Smash Brothers Melee Background before MK9.


The game has NEVER had a patch, and if you look at the history of the Tier list. It has changed almost every year and even after a decade new developments keep arriving.

Pikachu use to be considered low tier. Unwinnable in a major tournament.

Recently a player named AXE, started placing top 8 pretty consistently with Pikachu making it as high as 4th place at some of the biggest tournaments.

They moved this character up to mid tier based on this one man's drive to advance the character.



Just because NOW you think you have all the mid tiers/low tiers figured out. Doesn't mean a player with great potential might one day with a love really great for a mid tier character drive them to top 4 at a national.


As Pig said, we just lack players.


When you are too trigger happy with patches, imagine if they were trigger happy with SSBM my example?

PIkachu would've ended up being OP, but since it had no updates, his metagame was advanced.


you have to understand early game years for a game new-ish like MK9, the top pros are just gonna pick what looks strong and stick to those characters. And because all the best players are only playing these characters. Everyone else starts to think they are the only good characters.


I wonder what tier you guys would have Kitana at, if Crazy Dominican and Osu 16bit with a 1-2 other high level kitana players instead played a different high tier character? We might atm have no one repping kitana at a high enough level, and you kitana players would think you need a buff.




I say play the game out for a few more years, And just enjoy as the tier list constantly changes without any patches because players start leveling up with mid-low tiers.

 

[Zoidberg747]

I agree with the OP.

Let me use another game as example, one that's lived longer than a decade with ZERO patches.


I have a Smash Brothers Melee Background before MK9.


The game has NEVER had a patch, and if you look at the history of the Tier list. It has changed almost every year and even after a decade new developments keep arriving.

Pikachu use to be considered low tier. Unwinnable in a major tournament.

Recently a player named AXE, started placing top 8 pretty consistently with Pikachu making it as high as 4th place at some of the biggest tournaments.

They moved this character up to mid tier based on this one man's drive to advance the character.



Just because NOW you think you have all the mid tiers/low tiers figured out. Doesn't mean a player with great potential might one day with a love really great for a mid tier character drive them to top 4 at a national.


As Pig said, we just lack players.


When you are too trigger happy with patches, imagine if they were trigger happy with SSBM my example?

PIkachu would've ended up being OP, but since it had no updates, his metagame was advanced.


you have to understand early game years for a game new-ish like MK9, the top pros are just gonna pick what looks strong and stick to those characters. And because all the best players are only playing these characters. Everyone else starts to think they are the only good characters.


I wonder what tier you guys would have Kitana at, if Crazy Dominican and Osu 16bit with a 1-2 other high level kitana players instead played a different high tier character? We might atm have no one repping kitana at a high enough level, and you kitana players would think you need a buff.




I say play the game out for a few more years, And just enjoy as the tier list constantly changes without any patches because players start leveling up with mid-low tiers.

There are plenty of great Kitana players

Mr Mileena
Khaotik
Trepound
Starcharger

And plenty more.

SSBM Is a completely different game, you cannot even compare the two. Although I will say every character has untapped potential, it is just up to us players to find it.

 

[Critical-Limit]

There are plenty of great Kitana players

Mr Mileena
Khaotik
Trepound
Starcharger

And plenty more.

SSBM Is a completely different game, you cannot even compare the two. Although I will say every character has untapped potential, it is just up to us players to find it.

Mr Mileena and Khaotik were on my mind when I said 1-2 others. I just haven't seen them much in like a years time.

but I sure hope you still got the jist of what I was saying?

and I NEEDED another game that doesn't do patches to make my point. the target of my argument wasn't a comparison of the game mechanics but a comparison of what happens when you leave a game alone vs patch a game based on the communities outcries.

Look at Kano? Before people could put ANYWHERE near enough time into him to figure him out. he was nerfed to garbage.


Go ahead and take a picutre of the Tier list now. And let's compare today's tier list to the tier list a couple years from now.


and you'll see my point. (assuming we can get the rep)

EDIT:
Look at Lord of the Fly. I mean imagine if you had 20 more really high level nightwolfs playing, and they could all learn from eachother?

Not taking anything from him, he's great and probably better than me. But who knows? maybe another guy has the gift of nightwolf that he's lacking?




anyways like pig said.

lots of viable characters, we just lack high level man power.

 

[quandaghost]

There is no such thing as a balanced fighting game. Stop crying, and whining about it. I n every fighting game to exist there have been characters that are clearly better because of what they can do. That's not a bad thing that's just how life works. VF is the only game close to being balanced and even that has a character defined as best character. Even non fighting games have tier list, hell super mario kart has a fucking tier list. No the game isn't balanced it wasn't meant to be. There are clear winners, and losers in life and sometimes we draw the short stick on it. People need to learn to either deal with what they have, and do better or just give up and stop asking for handouts. You think going to tekken will make you better cause people are telling you everyone is viable.....right. No you are still gonna get mad because x character is better at doing something than yours DEAL WITH IT and GET BETTER. No I don't like everything but I still play.

Also things that aren't broken in this game are the legit resets that exist like scorpion's vortex. Why do people keep listing this as broken, and need ing patched when Akuma has been doing better resets that do 60% to 80% life since 94. You have a chance to block, you have a chance to punish. It's not like you have to take the damage it's called 50/50 every game has them. Every game has character with vortex deal with it.

Kenshi being Kenshi isn't broken Hell street fighter has had worse zoning than kenshi could ever dream of having. yes it's clear he as some stupid stuff that's ok if you are good you will find ways around it. Take super ssf4 guile for example he had instant recovery on his projectile, a 2 second charge time, didnt get counter hit from throwing sonic booms, had a 3 frame air throw with hug hitbox that could air grab ultra's, and he built alot of meter fast so he always had a safe way out if the player was smart. Watch a vid of V-13 from Balzblu, watch a vid of

NRS did the best they could stop shitting in the hand that feeds you. If you don't like it deal with it, and play and have fun or leave the game cause nobody likes to hear other people bitch.

 

[LionHeart V1]

KUH-BAL

 

[AREZ God of War]

The problem isn't the game being unbalanced and broken....it's the players not being good enough.

If everyone took responsibility for their own short-comings, we would have A.) much better players B.) much less complaining C.) a more respected kommunity D.) new tech discovered more often E.) More viabale characters F.) etc.

 

[Mr. Mileena]

Jade and Sindel are not that bad, so if someone dedicates enough time with their character, they can stand a chance.

I respect people who stick to their character (loyalty), rather than find the easy way out and main Kenshi, Kabal, etc.
I still respect people who main them, be it preference or the urge to have better shots at winning, but I truly respect people who take the hard road and stick by their main, no matter how good or bad the character might be compared to others.

 

[Critical-Limit]

The problem isn't the game being unbalanced and broken....it's the players not being good enough.

If everyone took responsibility for their own short-comings, we would have A.) much better players B.) much less complaining C.) a more respected kommunity D.) new tech discovered more often E.) More viabale characters F.) etc.

exactly!! this is what i was mostly getting at.

 

[AREZ God of War]

Jade and Sindel are not that bad, so if someone dedicates enough time with their character, they can stand a chance.

I respect people who stick to their character (loyalty), rather than find the easy way out and main Kenshi, Kabal, etc.
I still respect people who main them, be it preference or the urge to have better shots at winning, but I truly respect people who take the hard road and stick by their main, no matter how good or bad the character might be compared to others.

.....As long as they don't complain after they lose by their own poor choice.

 

[Critical-Limit]

I also dislike low tier mains that use their character to win no matter what.

If they win? your just bad cuz you lost to a low tier or they are just that good.

if they lose? oh well it's a low tier so naturally right?

I suggest if you play a low tier just stay away from this mentality. Even if it bottom tier on a tier list.


gotta understand Tier lists represent today's meta-game. And it's not a end all be all list.

The more things are discovered and the better mid tier-low tier people place.

you'll see the tier list shift.

 

[Mr. Mileena]

I also dislike low tier mains that use their character to win no matter what.

If they win? your just bad cuz you lost to a low tier or they are just that good.

if they lose? oh well it's a low tier so naturally right?

I suggest if you play a low tier just stay away from this mentality. Even if it bottom tier on a tier list.


gotta understand Tier lists represent today's meta-game. And it's not a end all be all list.

The more things are discovered and the better mid tier-low tier people place.

you'll see the tier list shift.

Exactly.

I got a lot of messages saying that it was incredible to see Sindel go far in a tournament, for her to be doing well.

When I lost, they were like it's okay, Sindel is low tier, you did well with her either way.

When in reality I lost because the other player outplayed me, not Sindel.

If i beat a Kano, it's no different than me beating a Kabal, vice versa as well.

It was a major struggle using Sindel, when Kitana was my obvious main character.
As months went by, I felt extremely confident having Sindel as my secondary, and I expected people to not place a handicap on her. She will win because of me, or she will lose because of me.

Attitudes or mentalities that excuse losses due to playing a low tier character ruin the game.

 

[ForeverKing]

Jade and Sindel are not that bad, so if someone dedicates enough time with their character, they can stand a chance.

Jade is the worst character in the game

 

[Mr. Mileena]

Jade is the worst character in the game

I'll let it slide only because you have big muscles... <3

 

[9_Lives]

I was talking about things similar to this earlier. If we all got together and helped eachother level up, we would have a much better game than if we constantly complain about characters being the way they are. Just as Sub moved from low to mid, Kenshi moved from unknown to top tier with the sheer effort of the Kenshi community grinding out playstyles, strategies, and methods. Even Kabal wouldn't be where he is now if it hadn't been for REO, Michaelangelo, and Erik Warda coming up with new tech. Think about it, at some point, every character was undiscovered, considering how drastically different the game is from Armageddon (can't just hop across games and be like "Oh yeah, this is how that character works" like you could in SF.)

If you really want to win with your favorite character, then you might have to put a lot more time in if they have fewer tools. It's just the way of things from here on in. As Billstickers wisely put it, no more patches are coming. It's now up to the players to change the meta of the game, not the game designers. And it's very possible. Changes happen all the time with this game. That's why I like it so much; the matchups are frequently evolving as new tech comes out. As for me, I'm going to try to push Rain a little farther, but since I also happen to enjoy Kabal and Jax, so I'll be repping more than just mid tier at NEC XIII. Best of luck to anyone else who happens to be going.

 

[OutworldKeith]

Snip*

Vf5 is well-balanced IMO. Of course it has characters that stand out, but every character has their own BS/weak points.

I think some people get confused as to what well-balanced actually means. My idea of a well-balanced fighting game is basically making every character tournament viable. However, that doesn't mean that characters won't have unfavorable MUs.

I hate when people complain about Kenshi's SC. Until they play Ryu vs Dhalsim MU in AE they don't know what annoying ass zoning is lol. Also, Guile SB recovery is GDLK you can read it and he can still AA with crouching MP lol.

 

[Lumpymoomilk]

I dunno maybe I'm just the pessimist here but I don't really see leveling up your playing means everyone is on equal grounds. Scarlet has the potential to be awesome but takes a ton of work. Kabal is always going to have have a better moveset than someone like Kano unless the game gets patches or someone discovers a completely new way to play him. Being a better player is not going to make the first hit of your combo magically start hitting your ducking low hitbox opponents when it didn't hit them before. Scorpions D4 isn't going to get better than Sonyas because you practice more. Some are just better than others, and some are much better than others, that's a fact.

 

[BlackBryan]

All this "i hope they fix this i hope they fix that in mk10". I personally love that Kano has less tools. I win, you feel bad. And i tend do do a lot of winning. It wouldn't fit his personality if he was s++++ tier. He calls you a bitch for Christ's sake! Only the character that has the least amount of tools should be able to do such a thing. I wouldn't mind some armour, but i would never drop Kano because they didn't give it to him, either. I think 90% of the complainers are forgetting about mk's huge personality roll's in every characters design, and i feel every characters abilities fully represent their personalities 100000% correctly. And "blah blah blah" personality has no place in tournament, i say go play Tekken then. I love NRS and their incredibly in depth character designs and flaws.

Anyway to the point: While Tier does exist, tier does not outweigh skill this late in a games life, tier does not mean a lesser pilot gets a guaranteed win, but what tier does mean is huge upsets come this weekend.

 

[x18x2xwildx]

smh, so many people just DO NOT get it.