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Strategy More... Meter...! - Bane's meter gain totals (warning - MATH Ahead!)

Doombawkz

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Since I already spoke about venom and the damage and armor properties it gives you, one must then make a note of how much METER you are gaining per combo. Through my tests I've found that meter gain and venom usage go hand-in-hand to a point. In this topic, I plan to reveal the amount of meter per combo of his bread and butter, the meter gain per special, and when it becomes worth it to meter burn for the extra damage and when it doesn't. I also hope to show the difference venom makes in the combo's meter gain and how it all relates to the scaling.

NOTE: These were done with an empty bar. As I am not as savvy as I would wish to be, all combos were replayed using the AI record function, with the total meter gain closely tracked. I went from empty to full and noted when the meter gain hit its maximum.

Since theres no spoiler tag, this is just listing the beginning equations to show how the rest are evaluated percentage wise.

100 / Reps required - remaining inputs / reps required
(example, j.d.3 b.23 123 = 18 reps + j.d.3)
(100 / 18 = 5.55% - (2%/18 = .11) = 5.44% meter gain)


j.d.3 = 2% meter gain
j.d.3 w/VL1 =
j.d.3 w/VL2 =
j.d.3 w/VL3 =

j.d.3 b.23 = 3.84% meter gain
j.d.3 b.23 w/VL1 =
j.d.3 b.23 w/VL2 =
j.d.3 b.23 w/VL3 =

j.d.3 b.23 123 = ~5.44%
j.d.3 b.23 123 w/VL1 =
j.d.3 b.23 123 w/VL2 =
j.d.3 b.23 123 w/VL3 =

j.d.3 b.23 123 d.b.f.3 = ~8.91%
j.d.3 b.23 123 d.b.f.3 w/VL1 =
j.d.3 b.23 123 d.b.f.3 w/VL2 =
j.d.3 b.23 123 d.b.f.3 w/VL3 =

j.d.3 b.23 123 b.f.2 = ~6.99%
j.d.3 b.23 123 b.f.2 w/VL1 =
j.d.3 b.23 123 b.f.2 w/VL2 =
j.d.3 b.23 123 b.f.2 w/VL3 =

j.d.3 b.23 123 d.b.2 = ~8.6%
j.d.3 b.23 123 d.b.2 w/VL1 =
j.d.3 b.23 123 d.b.2 w/VL2 =
j.d.3 b.23 123 d.b.2 w/VL3 =

j.d.3 b.23 123 d.b.1 = ~9.1%
j.d.3 b.23 123 d.b.1 w/VL1 =
j.d.3 b.23 123 d.b.1 w/VL2 =
j.d.3 b.23 123 d.b.1 w/VL3 =

j.d.3 b.23 d.2 b.f.1 =
j.d.3 b.23 d.2 b.f.1 w/VL1 =
j.d.3 b.23 d.2 b.f.1 w/VL2 =
j.d.3 b.23 d.2 b.f.1 w/VL3 =

j.d.3 b.23 d.2 d.3 =
j.d.3 b.23 d.2 d.3 w/VL1 =
j.d.3 b.23 d.2 d.3 w/VL2 =
j.d.3 b.23 d.2 d.3 w/VL3 =

j.d.3 b.23 d.2 d.2 b.f.2 =
j.d.3 b.23 d.2 d.2 b.f.2 w/VL1 =
j.d.3 b.23 d.2 d.2 b.f.2 w/VL2 =
j.d.3 b.23 d.2 d.2 b.f.2 w/VL3 =

First lets do the basic jump-in set to see which is more meter friendly

j.d.3 b.23 123 = 18 and j.d.3
j.d.3 b.23 123 w/VL 1 = 16 and j.d.3 b.23
j.d.3 b.23 123 w/VL 2 = 14 and j.d.3 b.23
j.d.3 b.23 123 w/VL 3 = 12 and j.d.3

Next lets add in the special moves and observe how the venom changes the amount needed.
j.d.3 b.23 123 body press = 11 and j.d.3
j.d.3 b.23 123 body press VL1 = 10 and j.d.3 b.23
j.d.3 b.23 123 body press VL2 = 9 and j.d.3 b.23 123
j.d.3 b.23 123 body press VL3 = 8 and j.d.3 b.23

j.d.3 b.23 123 double punch = 13 and j.d.3 b.23 123
j.d.3 b.23 123 double punch VL1 = 11 and j.d.3 b.23 123
j.d.3 b.23 123 double punch VL2 = 10 and j.d.3 b.23 123
j.d.3 b.23 123 double punch VL3 = 9 and j.d.3

j.d.3 b.23 123 venom upper = 11 and j.d.3 b.23 123
j.d.3 b.23 123 venom upper VL1 = 11 and j.d.3 b.23
j.d.3 b.23 123 venom upper VL2 = 10 and j.d.3 b.23
j.d.3 b.23 123 venom upper VL3 = 9

j.d.3 b.23 123 ring toss = 11
j.d.3 b.23 123 ring toss VL1 = 10 and j.d.3 b.23 123
j.d.3 b.23 123 ring toss VL2 = 9 and j.d.3 b.23 123
j.d.3 b.23 123 ring toss VL3 = 8 and j.d.3 b.23 123

With that in mind, lets see the base values of the specials, and how they are affected by scaling.

body press = 18 / VL1 - 17 / VL2 - 16 / VL3 - 16
double punch = 29 / VL1 - 28 / VL2 - 27 / VL3 - 24
venom upper = 24 / VL1 - 22 / VL2 - 20 / VL3 - 18
ring toss = 20 / VL1 - 19 / VL2 - 18 / VL3 - 16



~~~~~~ In progress. Soon adding approximate percentages and more string analysis ~~~~~~
 
Darth Mao

Darth Mao

Your Tech is Mine! #buffRaiden
REALLY good, are posts like this and the Pig's topic that make me feel proud of this community.
 
SUPARNOVAX

SUPARNOVAX

Low tier? I was born in it, molded by it
Nope, need meter for Bane's resets. Meter is great and plus when you're down on a lot of zoned out matches, clashing the meter off is always good as well.
 
RYX

RYX

BIG PUSHER
I think it depends where you want to go really. If you can set up the reset with the environment(not all stages can do this) then keep your meter for the wall-bounce if you want to maximize your damage. If you want to corner them, either do it without meter or enhance double punch/venom uppercut for the extra push.

If you can stay close meter isn't much of a problem since you can build it very rapidly with smart mix-ups and frame traps.
 
SUPARNOVAX

SUPARNOVAX

Low tier? I was born in it, molded by it
All my resets are non-environment related. I haven't even cracked into those types of resets yet. There's a lot of tricks to go about with Bane. It's hard to find good comp online at the moment but you can never really say Bane doesn't need much meter. I think he's extremely meter hungry and venom isn't sufficient.

I just got off a 20 streak loss in stage picks lol. It's sooooooo borked
 
RYX

RYX

BIG PUSHER
SUPARNOVAX said:
All my resets are non-environment related. I haven't even cracked into those types of resets yet. There's a lot of tricks to go about with Bane. It's hard to find good comp online at the moment but you can never really say Bane doesn't need much meter. I think he's extremely meter hungry and venom isn't sufficient.

I just got off a 20 streak loss in stage picks lol. It's sooooooo borked
Click to expand...
Borked? I think Bane does really well with stages; you just have to be aggressive and push people where you want.

Would you mind sharing these resets with us?
 
SUPARNOVAX

SUPARNOVAX

Low tier? I was born in it, molded by it
RYX said:
Borked? I think Bane does really well with stages; you just have to be aggressive and push people where you want.

Would you mind sharing these resets with us?
Click to expand...
big_aug said:
What is a reset and why do you need meter to do it?
Click to expand...
I put up a video for it the other day. There's already a thread for it.

Reset is intentionally dropping combos to set up a new situation to start a new unscaled combo. I guess it's not technically a reset here in this game because there's nothing really that close to how it is done in Street Fighter and Tekken, but my combos don't end with the strings, they end after I grab people. The knockdowns are just an intermission and a few of Bane's metered attacks leave him the right amount of frames and spacing for his slow body press to land and you cover it up with Venom so people will mash into getting scooped or try to block an throw which doesn't fly. And then for those that try to jump, they only jump into Bane's arms.
 
Reactions: RYX
B

big_aug

Kombatant
Meter burning any of his specials outside of the corner really leaves the opponent kind of far away and makes it more difficult to keep the pressure going. The command grab might be the exception, but I can't remember how far away they are. I don't get what meter has to do with a reset. Every attack Bane has sets the opponent up for a guessing game on what's coming. Maybe I don't understand what a reset truly is.

Outside of the corner, meter burning specials just makes it harder to get into the next attack because the meter burn versions keep you locked in animation longer or put the opponent farther away.

I only really meter burn to finish life bars most of the time. I like to keep my meter for the combo into super or a clash. Being that we don't really need meter, we can really extend our life if an opponent burns theirs foolishly.

I really need to see some Bane gameplay videos from you good players.
 
RYX

RYX

BIG PUSHER
big_aug said:
Meter burning any of his specials outside of the corner really leaves the opponent kind of far away and makes it more difficult to keep the pressure going. The command grab might be the exception, but I can't remember how far away they are. I don't get what meter has to do with a reset. Every attack Bane has sets the opponent up for a guessing game on what's coming. Maybe I don't understand what a reset truly is.

Outside of the corner, meter burning specials just makes it harder to get into the next attack because the meter burn versions keep you locked in animation longer or put the opponent farther away.

I only really meter burn to finish life bars most of the time. I like to keep my meter for the combo into super or a clash. Being that we don't really need meter, we can really extend our life if an opponent burns theirs foolishly.

I really need to see some Bane gameplay videos from you good players.
Click to expand...
You'd have to see my environment resets to understand why meter is needed.
 
SUPARNOVAX

SUPARNOVAX

Low tier? I was born in it, molded by it
Plus F3 Mb is kinda needed to punish environments if you're not trimming through them with 2-3 venoms. Dash canceling F2 with 3 venom to bypass stuff is useful too if you have it at the right time.
 
Doombawkz

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Meter has its uses. Primarily for the damage factor. This entire topic is to show how efficient Bane's combos are and how they change when venom becomes involved. The magic number is 25, as I say. At 25%, you gain one meter so having some kind of combo that gives that much meter into say a command throw meter burned would be a perfectly efficient combo. For example, a combo that takes 20 reps exactly (ring toss, for example) gives 5% give or take each time. That means you'd have to land 5 ring tosses to make one MB d.b.f.3 worth it.

The biggest problem I see with Bane players is sloppy meter management. Its like seeing Phoenix in MvC3, clinging so desperately to those meager 5 bars that they willingly give up entire matches out of refusal to leave that crutch Dark Phoenix. Its the same concept, only with supers or clashes. We shouldn't be so stingy with our meter.


Also to note, people are reading this chart wrong. He doesn't "gain less meter per venom". The numbers shown are reps required to reach the maximum. The difference between 1 and 2 will often be only a slight amount more than between 0 and 1, since its more or less 100-110-125%. Once I put the actual full percentages out, it'll be slightly more obvious. Taking "ring toss" for example, it takes off one rep per venom exactly. This should show that the meter per venom is entirely dependant on scaling, since "double punch" has a slightly more slanted venom/meter amounting.

I should also mention how tedious this all is. I have to go into practice, record the AI to do the combo correctly the first time, and sit there and watch it slowly grind its way to the top of the meter. If I mess up the combo even once I have to fill the meter manually, record the AI supering from full screen to clear it, and start all over. I can't even begin to tell you how frustrating it was doing the Lv3 j.d.3 b.23 123 d.b.f.3 combo correctly the first time.
 
B

big_aug

Kombatant
It's not about being stingy with meter. It's the fact that MB on most of his specials is not very good for a anything but a few percent damage. You get what? 5%, if that, on a MB? And most of the time you're in worse position. Obviously you should MB some, but I'd rather have that 3-4 bars to clash, prevent clash, or using an armored 3.
 
Doombawkz

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
big_aug said:
It's not about being stingy with meter. It's the fact that MB on most of his specials is not very good for a anything but a few percent damage. You get what? 5%, if that, on a MB? And most of the time you're in worse position. Obviously you should MB some, but I'd rather have that 3-4 bars to clash, prevent clash, or using an armored 3.
Click to expand...
It adds up pretty quick. Every meter unspent when you are at max is wasted for the most part when you could be turning 45% combos into 57% combos for just one bar, metering your b.3 to eat through some people's attacks and transition them so your cooldown isn't as prominent... Theres lots of use for meter, the guy is meter independent but that doesn't mean he should never use it.
 
B

big_aug

Kombatant
Doombawkz said:
It adds up pretty quick. Every meter unspent when you are at max is wasted for the most part when you could be turning 45% combos into 57% combos for just one bar, metering your b.3 to eat through some people's attacks and transition them so your cooldown isn't as prominent... Theres lots of use for meter, the guy is meter independent but that doesn't mean he should never use it.
Click to expand...
I'm talking about meter burning his special moves. It's basically a waste in most scenarios. I'm talking like I'm good, but I'm not lol
 
Doombawkz

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
big_aug said:
I'm talking about meter burning his special moves. It's basically a waste in most scenarios. I'm talking like I'm good, but I'm not lol
Click to expand...
Everything has a use meterburned.
Body press adds huge damage (I think it goes from just 5.05 - 9.10 to like 5.05 -16.50 or something)
Double punch has insane wall-carry potential (most combos cover about half a stage's worth, and the corner is where you want them)
Venom uppercut in the corner allows you that free grab set-up which is about 24% additional unscaled damage on the end of your already big damage combo
Charge when mid-screen actually gives you some good advantage and it keeps you as close as you could possibly ever want to be.
 
Doombawkz

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
I'll probably be finishing this out by Wednesday at the latest. I work sooooo much so when I come home its hard to get motivated to watching combos on a screen 30-something times and doing math. If anyone wants to assist me, all I need is the VL1, 2, and 3 for j.d.3 and j.d.3 b.23, I can do the rest off of the equation alone.

I'll be sure to credit anyone who lends me that hand in the OP.
 
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