Moonfall Nightwolf Combos & Guide

[Swoops]

Hey all! Been playing Nightwolf since customs got released and wanted to see if people are messing around with Moonfall yet. Seems like it has a ton of potential and I've absolutely loved playing it. Put together a combo video and a guide of all I've learned so far if you wanna check that out below. LMK if you all think it's worth running. It's definitely a tough sell to give up Rising Tomahawk lol

 

[Espio]

I will say that I like that you explain the process for setting up customs to the viewer as well.

I'll never not praise a maverick mindset of trying to break the mold and doing something more divergent and nuanced with a character. I will say though that his full back 1 string the last hit isn't just flawless blockable, you can punish/interrupt it with normals too if I recall. I think you may be on to something but I do have some suggestions and of course this is just my opinion.

My recommendation would be since Moonfall is your core focus and takes away the command grab strings anyway maybe try out the Moonlight reflector to get in on the opponent quickly and start the mind games of moonfall off with the great mobility. That slot doesn't seem to really help the other aspects of the build or at least they don't appear to based on your exposition on the guide.

Also alternatively you may want the lightning mid projectile depending on its synergy with the loadout because Moonfall and command grab have synergy with how you play but if Moonfall is the focus you're barely gonna utilize those grab strings honestly.

Hope that feedback is helpful and kudos for going into customs and doing something innovative and exploratory @Swoops

Also, the thread is now stickied.

 

[Swoops]

@Espio

Hey thanks for the sticky, appreciate it! Also your notes are good and accurate, that giant gap in the B132 I didn't originally know about but I started to get checked a few times lol

Totally get you on the Grappling Stalker extensions. That's easily the most swappable slot and either lightning arrow or reflector are really good fits. Grappling Stalker is more personal preference because you get the extra KB and his B341+3 which I like a lot. I find they help even out his damage a lot especially since you aren't using Rising Tomahawk.

 

[XxTheGoblinX]

I will say that I like that you explain the process for setting up customs to the viewer as well.

I'll never not praise a maverick mindset of trying to break the mold and doing something more divergent and nuanced with a character. I will say though that his full back 1 string the last hit isn't just flawless blockable, you can punish/interrupt it with normals too if I recall. I think you may be on to something but I do have some suggestions and of course this is just my opinion.

My recommendation would be since Moonfall is your core focus and takes away the command grab strings anyway maybe try out the Moonlight reflector to get in on the opponent quickly and start the mind games of moonfall off with the great mobility. That slot doesn't seem to really help the other aspects of the build or at least they don't appear to based on your exposition on the guide.

Also alternatively you may want the lightning mid projectile depending on its synergy with the loadout because Moonfall and command grab have synergy with how you play but if Moonfall is the focus you're barely gonna utilize those grab strings honestly.

Hope that feedback is helpful and kudos for going into customs and doing something innovative and exploratory @Swoops

Also, the thread is now stickied.

I think the amp comnand grab gives alot of advantage so that you can set up the axe though

 

[Pyrosis]

I tried this because it looks super fun to play. But having a ton of trouble comboing after the axe recall, any tips for hitting combos after it as when to input?

 

[Swoops]

I think the amp comnand grab gives alot of advantage so that you can set up the axe though

Yea I find command grab to be my favorite combo with moonfall. Maximizes the damage from moonfall, gives you a vortex like situation with all of the advantage it gives, and gives you an option to counter breakaway.

After doing some research tho I found Ketchup&Mustard played around with moonfall in one of their videos and used the spirit tracks launcher to constantly hit confirm combos into a canceled moonfall for advantage (ie 111~bf4 amp launch, 31, 111~df2.) This is a really solid build for moonfall but I find it limits your damage and you lose the advantage from grab but I'd love to see more people explore it.

I tried this because it looks super fun to play. But having a ton of trouble comboing after the axe recall, any tips for hitting combos after it as when to input?

It can be difficult to get the hang of for sure. I would say first try to press 111 later than you would think you need to. Your jab can pick up lower than you think. If you're still having trouble try d1 for the simplicity and to learn the timing. As long as you catch the axe while in 111 range it should combo just fine.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

This is actually cool! I came looking just because Bio put up a video with it and it was the first I'd seen of NW kustoms...even if mostly it really is just 'and then hit them with 111 after launch'.

I just like setups and having a 1-slot launcher option, leaves more room for fun stuff... and this also acts like a trap when you leave it hanging around.

And amped cmd grab does have enough advantage to get out a spirit animal buff, FWIW, and this leaves you a slot open for that.. if they ever made them not suck so terribly much.

 

[SaladPlateLover]

Biohazard playing nice games in tourney with Moonfall https://www.twitch.tv/videos/852017943

He didn't use grappling stalker a lot and I feel he could've benefited more from lightning arrow or reflectorport. But if he reads this and wants to make the loadout work then I would suggest using 221+3 KB as a punish when Moonfall isn't out. Then once the KB is used you go back to moonfall setups. He also conditioned his opponents to not breakaway with d1xHawkswing. I wonder if it would be worth it at that point to do 111xHawkswing for the extra 5% damage or if the opponent would be ready to breakaway on reaction.

Just wanna talk about Moonfall Nightwolf more since its my current project. I run it alongside Hawkswing and Kiba. @fluffybunbunkittens Yeah spirit animals are trash but I'm casual and its fun to be howling at your opponent. I'll summon Kiba after every amplified Hawkswing instead of throwing down the axe, but I'll Moonfall after f1212 | f2121 | b132. I don't think Moonfall after Spirit Charge is the way to go since they're quite close which leaves you open, and it also takes away your f2 oki game.

If the opponent respects your Moonfall from full screen you can throw out a Kiba. Which probably isn't worthwhile but if you get lucky that's ~30%. Amplify Kiba -> 31xRecall, 111xHawkswing is 38% but that's the dream scenario.

If the tomahawk is too far behind the opponent then it becomes a high so 11xRecall will whiff. If its even farther it won't even combo on hit so commit to 11xSpirit Charge or 112 is great because it pushes them back toward the tomahawk and leaves you at +1. Which means recall becomes a 9f mid from mid distance.

 

[Malec]

As fun and creative Moonfall is, I cant take it seriously on a cempetitive level. You lose to much when the axe is on the ground (F1,2/(11)1/B1/Rhino amped/Command grap) and you are no real threat when the axe isnt set up.
This Variation seems to work against everything Nightwolf is good for (strong footsies/neutral, movement, converting any mistake the opponent dose into decent damage and corner carry).
You not only have to watch out for what your opponent dose, but also where your axe is on the screen. If the axe isnt set up, you have no combos. Everytime you combo with Moonfall you switch sites. Everytime you set up the axe but your opponent took his turn and pushed you out of range, the axe isnt as big of a threat again. Everytime a KB or FB happens, you have to set up again.

This is ofc just my opinion.

 

[Swoops]

Biohazard playing nice games in tourney with Moonfall https://www.twitch.tv/videos/852017943

He didn't use grappling stalker a lot and I feel he could've benefited more from lightning arrow or reflectorport. But if he reads this and wants to make the loadout work then I would suggest using 221+3 KB as a punish when Moonfall isn't out. Then once the KB is used you go back to moonfall setups. He also conditioned his opponents to not breakaway with d1xHawkswing. I wonder if it would be worth it at that point to do 111xHawkswing for the extra 5% damage or if the opponent would be ready to breakaway on reaction.

Just wanna talk about Moonfall Nightwolf more since its my current project. I run it alongside Hawkswing and Kiba. @fluffybunbunkittens Yeah spirit animals are trash but I'm casual and its fun to be howling at your opponent. I'll summon Kiba after every amplified Hawkswing instead of throwing down the axe, but I'll Moonfall after f1212 | f2121 | b132. I don't think Moonfall after Spirit Charge is the way to go since they're quite close which leaves you open, and it also takes away your f2 oki game.

If the opponent respects your Moonfall from full screen you can throw out a Kiba. Which probably isn't worthwhile but if you get lucky that's ~30%. Amplify Kiba -> 31xRecall, 111xHawkswing is 38% but that's the dream scenario.

If the tomahawk is too far behind the opponent then it becomes a high so 11xRecall will whiff. If its even farther it won't even combo on hit so commit to 11xSpirit Charge or 112 is great because it pushes them back toward the tomahawk and leaves you at +1. Which means recall becomes a 9f mid from mid distance.

Moonfall NW is pretty fun and I am super glad to talk more about it

My main other variation I run instead of grappling stalker is the teleport. It's very good against certain matchups that oppress you full screen and don't let you set up properly. Also it makes for an easy reposition if you want to get the axe on the other side of them. However, something I haven't seen people use with stalker is his B341+3 which is SOLID damage, safe, and also switches sides so that the axe is where it needs to be.

I haven't run any of the animal buffs with MF just because it's a lot to juggle for me personally, but I'm really interested in it now lol.

As fun and creative Moonfall is, I cant take it seriously on a cempetitive level. You lose to much when the axe is on the ground (F1,2/(11)1/B1/Rhino amped/Command grap) and you are no real threat when the axe isnt set up.
This Variation seems to work against everything Nightwolf is good for (strong footsies/neutral, movement, converting any mistake the opponent dose into decent damage and corner carry).
You not only have to watch out for what your opponent dose, but also where your axe is on the screen. If the axe isnt set up, you have no combos. Everytime you combo with Moonfall you switch sites. Everytime you set up the axe but your opponent took his turn and pushed you out of range, the axe isnt as big of a threat again. Everytime a KB or FB happens, you have to set up again.

This is ofc just my opinion.

I definitely feel the sting of losing a basic launcher sometimes when I play MF. It's hard to argue against a simple utility launcher that works off of all of his buttons instead of just a few. I'm curious on what you consider to be serious at a competitive level though. Winning a major, top 8, regularly getting top 8 or winning at majors? Being serious at a competitive level is tricky to define, especially when you already see Bio doing well with the variation. Does that change your opinion on it being competitive or do you need to see other players win tournaments with it? I'm not saying this variation is the pinnacle of play for NW and every player should run it, but in my experience against good players and seeing other people play it is very functional and effective.

I don't disagree it goes against those strengths of NW you mentioned, but it adds a lot of strength and dimension that NW doesn't have normally. Not to mention I think you are overstating the strength of those tools a bit. He has good footsies but most buttons he has have significant weakness like being blown up by flawless block (F2), bad hitboxes (B1), or not being able to convert into any sort of meaningful pressure. Take F12 which is arguably a fantastic mid that pressures well with it's range, but as soon as you use it you are effectively blowing his load. Same thing with the F2 string, which if it's not flawless blocked also hands the turn over to the opponent in a big way. Same with B34. If MF is out, all of the sudden these 2 strings are given a much needed layer of pressure that the opponent needs to respect for fear of getting put into the moonfall vortaxe (patented, trademarked, heard it here first.)

Again I'm not abusing any notion of the strength in his tomahawk launcher, but I do think MF adds more than you think. I also think that it is very easy to set up in a competitive match (J3 os axe toss.)

If it interested anyone I have quite a few things I 've been using for MF setup/oki tech I could put into a video.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

Very good point about teleport letting you always be on the right side, because stuff happens and finding the axe at your own feet while you're getting shot at isn't where you want to be. This is the first time I even think about NW's teleport.

 

[Malec]

I definitely feel the sting of losing a basic launcher sometimes when I play MF. It's hard to argue against a simple utility launcher that works off of all of his buttons instead of just a few. I'm curious on what you consider to be serious at a competitive level though. Winning a major, top 8, regularly getting top 8 or winning at majors? Being serious at a competitive level is tricky to define, especially when you already see Bio doing well with the variation. Does that change your opinion on it being competitive or do you need to see other players win tournaments with it? I'm not saying this variation is the pinnacle of play for NW and every player should run it, but in my experience against good players and seeing other people play it is very functional and effective.

I don't disagree it goes against those strengths of NW you mentioned, but it adds a lot of strength and dimension that NW doesn't have normally. Not to mention I think you are overstating the strength of those tools a bit. He has good footsies but most buttons he has have significant weakness like being blown up by flawless block (F2), bad hitboxes (B1), or not being able to convert into any sort of meaningful pressure. Take F12 which is arguably a fantastic mid that pressures well with it's range, but as soon as you use it you are effectively blowing his load. Same thing with the F2 string, which if it's not flawless blocked also hands the turn over to the opponent in a big way. Same with B34. If MF is out, all of the sudden these 2 strings are given a much needed layer of pressure that the opponent needs to respect for fear of getting put into the moonfall vortaxe (patented, trademarked, heard it here first.)

Again I'm not abusing any notion of the strength in his tomahawk launcher, but I do think MF adds more than you think. I also think that it is very easy to set up in a competitive match (J3 os axe toss.)

If it interested anyone I have quite a few things I 've been using for MF setup/oki tech I could put into a video.

Well I am not a pro Player, not even close. Like I said its just my opinion. I tried MF a lot with command grab and Lightning Arrow and for me peronally, I wouldn't run it in KL. The ability is clunky imo.
And Bio doing well with it, dosent change my mind. He is a good Player and can make things work that others cant.

I know what you mean with NWs pokes on block. But I am talking about F1,2 as an whiff punish Tool. His backdash and even his back walkspeed is really good and in the patient footsy game, F1,2 shines.

I dont want to bash on Moonfall or convince anyone that the move sucks, cause I think it's a really good move. Imo its just to clunky and has a lot of downsides.

 

[Swoops]

Speaking of MF being clunky, I think I found a way for the move to come out very reliably. If you want to recall MF in neutral you can use diagonal inputs. So either UF or UB+2 works. I find it even easier if you do it from walking back or forward. So walk back, then roll from B to UB+2. Super easy to get it consistently with this method. Very hard to mess up.

Making a (hopefully) short video with some extras and ways to make moonfall easier to use. If I can get it short enough I'll release it along with some matches against good players.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

I just use block, 2, up to recall in neutral, like I would for an U2.

But B, UB works a lot better than I thought it would. Nice to know!

 

[Swoops]

Okay, so I might have found a variation that works surprisingly well and could be added to the potentially viable moonfall variations.

MF, grab, Hana's Wrath.

I'm going to play around with this more but it feels like it actually synergizes well together. Not only do you get a mid projectile with good frame adv on hit/block but the fact that disables meter usage even if the opponent blocks it is kind of insane. I feel like it might be really useful to shutting down many characters more powerful options.

Also, if the opponent is wary of moonfall it will let you extend pressure while remaining at good advantage AND disabling breakaway, flawless block attacks, wakeups, etc.

The only thing you need to be wary of is if they flawless block the birb itself, then the effect is not applied and they can block attack or whatever they want. Still, I think this is worth looking into over stalker/teleport/lightning arrow.

 

[TheBeep]

I just recall Moonfall like it's a Smash attack in Smash Bros. Once I framed it like that I got it to come 100% cleanly