Is there anything you can do to mediate the risk of opening a combo with F4? It's a nice overhead but if you can't cancel into anything that's potentially safe then it doesn't seem worth the risk.
You can try to use air soul blast or the ex version. I think it is worth the risk, but to each their own
@Metzos or
@zaf You should update the op with the aa combos for mystic variation.
. 1, f21d2, jikxxTelepunch, b12xxTelehold=24%+10% fall damage
. 4, Telehover, njp f21d2, telehold= 22%
. 4, EX Telehold, f21d2, telehold= 20%+10% fall damage
. d1, f212, jikxxTelepunch, b12xxTelehold=24%+10% fall damage
Done. Thanks!
@Addicttion it sure would be cool to have a projectile in Mystic. But honestly i dont find he needs one. If it were only for the projectile itself i would trade it in a heartbeat for the lift (the one with hangtime
). I Agree on the reset/vortex thing with the Soul Ball though. They are pretty cool. Still there is a higher risk to them. Also the Ability for Mystic Mac to end in lift is a thing you cant disregard as well as his meter steal armored push.
Vanish is cool but it also has its risks as it can be punished when he reappears. Also one might argue that regular lift is useless in this Variation.
I disagree on the combos. They both have several mid 30 to 40 combo option - meterless. (in the OP some combos that are mentioned in the MoS section are actually for Mystic & they are more in this thread itself)
P.S. Dont get me wrong - i am not arguing on which one is better. You just made it sound that MoS is that much superior which in my oppinion its not.
I think I figured out a way for MoS to make as much meter as Mystic. Will test tonight.
So, I've been labbing with Ermac in general, don't know if this has been found out but. His F21D2 string is great, 0 on block. Except for the fact that it's punishable between the 1 and D2 by EX moves with less that 15 frames of startup I believe, which is a lot. However, if you're not sure your opponent is going to block, you can always just do F2D2, gives you a little less damage, but good safety. So unless your opponent does not have the knowledge of the gap, or doesn't have EX meter, F2D2 is the safer route.
Yeah it's amazing, especially as you don't directly cancel DF2 from it, but rather, wait until their up in the air. It makes it an extraordinarily safe confirm.
Also your opponent having knowledge of the gap in this context is double sided, as if you think they're going to mash out EX's to bait out and punish with a full combo.
The string w/o the D2 is -15 on block, so baiting anything is completely out the window.
F21D2 can be substituted by F3 for safety after a JIP.
http://a.pomf.se/gorwvo.mp4
B12, 34 and F3 are safe strings/pokes that can be confirmed into full combos.
Also, If you insist on using f21d2 (like me lol) you can hit confirm the d2, if on block you can use a regular 2 to bait a punish for 5% and knockdown
F2D2 is a safe route. You can also use F212.
You can go right into a special at F21 Here D2, if you think the opponent will armor.
I think people overlook the fact that Mystic builds meter quicker than MoS. That another advantage Mystic has over MoS. They need to make Force push less unsafe. I didn't play Ermac in MK9, so I don't know his frame data, but what was it like? Did it have push back, block stun, discounts at your local grocery store? I need to know.
I just find it funny how MKX has a variety of zoners and a majority of them aren't even a thing due to how unsafe their zoning is, or how unfinished it is. *cough cough Shinnok cough cough*
I really only see Mystic making more meter then MoS when you land a hit.
You get to make the meter off the instant air soul blasts, but like I mentioned it is only when you can actually land a hit.
Other then that, I think they make meter more or less at the same rate no ?
So the trade off becomes "At the end of my combo, do I want to make meter or do I want to go for a 50/50"
In MK9 Ermac force push was -17. It used to have push back but it was nerfed and he lost it. In this game it is not the same tool that it used to be.
Characters with teleport can punish Ermac's tkp with a full combo. Scorpion and Ermac (duh) are an example. They simply block tkp and ex teleport punish. Found about it today the rough way. Tkp's block adv needs to change. Until it does mystic will be trash tier agains the majority of the cast. Pretty much everyone can punish it, if he has good reactions.
Yea this is definitely a problem that he has in Mystic. The frame data on the block advantage of push.
When I play people ( I only play offline), if they block the TKP they just run at me.
A lot of people have not yet used run as an answer to something since it is so new to the community. But once someone blocks a TKP and runs at you, depending on the range they either get to start pressuring you or they get to punish.
I don't see the frames on this move getting any better because it would just be way too good.
I feel like i'm the only one that could care less about F21D2. All I use is literally B3, F4, and 222. B3 and F4 are both safe on block with a BF1... or at least it is online, i've yet to be punished.
It is just online. This is not safe.
BF2 yes. But it pushes away on block and gives me enough room to recover. Either that or I should put down my pipe before I play/post.
Put down the pipe.
I'm having troubles landing the 22 after the b12 in the "F21d2, j3~tp, b12 22 ~ soul ball, j1,b12" string, anyone got any tips?
Try watching the character you are comboing when you are doing the combos and not ermac. Watch the videos I made and look for some visual cues as to when you should be hitting them. That is how I play. I almost never look at ermac at all in matches. Especially when comboing.
Finally
saw a combo beating out the commonly known:
f21d2 > f4 xx > bf2 > dash > bf1 > nj2 > j3 xx > db4 > f4, 3 (37% meterless)
So, the new meterless max is:
222 xx > Soul Ball > J2 > f21d2 > J4 xx > Tele > b321 (40% meterless)
It takes quite a while to get down since the jump in before the tele has to be delayed slightly. Also, starting with 222 puts you at -8 rather than f21d2's 0 on block. A little more dangerous and harder, but if you do a jump in punch to start the combo, you're better off doing the latter since the first string is guaranteed to hit.
After the Soul ball, J2 F21D2 you need to run cancel the J4 right ?
Hmm, I'm having some real issues getting his TP,D1,Soul Ball in.
The D1 seems to whiff 50% of the time, and I can almost never hit it in online situations.
Any tips on this one or an alternative after the TP to Soul Ball?
The D1 needs to be hit almost immediately after the teleport.
You can press D1 pretty much as soon as he completes the teleport and lands. I had some troubles too at first, but this is because I was doing the D1 waaaaaay too late. I started to speed up the timing and press D1 as soon as he lands and this is 100% consistent for me now.
~~~
Also for people having trouble with D1~ Soul ball after a teleport.
In MK9, to end combos after a double teleport, you could go for a D1~TKP
back in Mk9, to do this I would just tap D1 and slide my thumb from back to forward and press 1 and the push would come out.
The timing in MKX is more much strict and this will not work for the most part.
What I am doing now to consistently Hit d1~soul ball is : I press D1 Back forwards 1.
I literally enter all of the required inputs. No issues and it always comes out.
tp for me is teleport; tkp would be push 