MKX: Distance Related BlockStun Can remove the ability to Interrupt w Armor/Backdash

[skater11]

And there's even strings that cancel into special for a true block/string exclusively in the corner due to no pushback on hit/block advantage. Subzero: B33xxice ball comes to mind. Only works in the corner and not midscreen.

 

[Error404]

Props to @Pan1cMode for coming in with the knowledge before this became another P2W "variable blockstun " BS thread.

 

[4x4lo8o]

Small terminology lesson for the community: "meaty" refers to connecting with the opponent near the end of a moves active frames. It can be done by spacing (as seen here, where the move isn't in range to connect til later in the animation) or on wake up (the opponent is on the ground at the beginning of the active frames and stands up into the move). I think people on TYM generally refer to meaty when they stuff wake ups without having a strong understanding of what the term means. Meaty attacks are more positive/less negative on block so they can be used to make frame traps or make normally punishable moves safe. The easiest way to think about this is with fireballs and how they can be punishable point blank but positive at full screen. The amount of block stun is always the same, but when the blockstun occurs relative to the recovery changes causing more advantage on meaty attacks

This is universal to all fighting games. It existed in MK9 and Injustice. As some people already pointed out, the MMH variable blockstun debacle was really just an example of meaty frames taking effect. Blockstun wasn't changing at all, it was the active frame the move connected on that changed and resulted in different frame advantage

 

[The_Tile]

Small terminology lesson for the community: "meaty" refers to connecting with the opponent near the end of a moves active frames. It can be done by spacing (as seen here, where the move isn't in range to connect til later in the animation) or on wake up (the opponent is on the ground at the beginning of the active frames and stands up into the move). I think people on TYM generally refer to meaty when they stuff wake ups without having a strong understanding of what the term means. Meaty attacks are more positive/less negative on block so they can be used to make frame traps or make normally punishable me moves safe. The easiest way to think about this is with fireballs and how they can be punishable point blank but positive at full screen.

This is universal to all fighting games. It existed in MK9 and Injustice. As some people already pointed out, the MMH variable blockstun debacle was really just an example of meaty frames taking effect. Blockstun wasn't changing at all, it the active frame the move connected on that changed and resulted in different frame advantage

Tbf though, I can understand the misunderstanding as I never knew what the term meaty meant until UltraDavid explained it at evo, and I'm sure he described it as just hitting an opponent on wakeup. Maybe just a mistake on his end or I misunderstood.

But this is a very good explanation!

 

[Colares]

The kick is not forward advancing to hit in the later frames like a slide.
It could be that nrs have a variable active hitboxes.

 

[buyacushun]

The kick is not forward advancing to hit in the later frames like a slide.
It could be that nrs have a variable active hitboxes.

It doesn't have to be forwarding advancing. Just has to hit in the later parts of its active frames. In other games you'll hear "meaty crouching heavy punch" or "meaty 3S" and neither would be slides.

 

[Colares]

It doesn't have to be forwarding advancing. Just has to hit in the later parts of its active frames. In other games you'll hear "meaty crouching heavy punch" or "meaty 3S" and neither would be slides.

Because a meaty uses the fact that the opponent is down so it misses the first few active frames.
Foward moving misses the first few active frames also;
This case the kick is hiting the very first active frame as cassie is vunerable to it and it is within the range we expect the hitbox

 

[Asodimazze]

This happens all the time using Kung Jin Shaolin.

Try to do any string cancelled into EX Low Chakram, and you'll see that sometimes (totally random, non distance related) the opponent will armor in between the 2 Low Chakram hits.
It is not distance related, if you use EX Low Chakram at various distances from full screen to very close sometimes the CPU will just armor out.

 

[Prinz]

Could also be something to do with practice mode not doing reversals properly against low moves.
Have you testing against a human?

Fighting love.

 

[4x4lo8o]

Tbf though, I can understand the misunderstanding as I never knew what the term meaty meant until UltraDavid explained it at evo, and I'm sure he described it as just hitting an opponent on wakeup. Maybe just a mistake on his end or I misunderstood.

But this is a very good explanation!

Yeah, I can't imagine David trying to explain something techical like that to a hundred thousand casuals on the evo stream

The kick is not forward advancing to hit in the later frames like a slide.
It could be that nrs have a variable active hitboxes.

I'm not sure what you mean by variable active hitboxes, but I think that because of the way hitboxes, movement and blocking work in NRS games pretty much every move acts as what you refer to as "forward advancing". Moves take several frames longer to hit at their maximum range than close range

 

[Colares]

That move should be a simple hit box created in the same place and dissapeared after few frames without moving.
It could be a remain of the 3D hitbox sistem from mk9. That tracks the feet.
Or my previous theory is that a hitbox in frame active1 is being created closer to kenshi
in frame active1+X it creates a hitbox slightly forward covering the entire feet and an area the hitbox on frameActive1 missed

 

[Scoot Magee]

This is one of the benefits of "meaty" attacks in other games.

 

[Colares]

This is one of the benefits of "meaty" attacks in other games.

Yeah that's the conclusion of the effects I think.
But now we need to figure why and then how to exploit it