MKX "3-styles" - good or bad?

[Belial]

I think 3-styles principle is bad for the game. I know I'm not the only one, but NRS makes so much focus on 3-styles, apparently they believe it to be a prime "feature" of MKX.
I hope we can prove them otherwise. And I hope I can persuade you that "3-styles" concept is harmful and will make MKX a worse game than it could be

For those (somehow) unfamiliar with the concept of 3-styles, here's a quick brief:
In MKX each character has 3 "versions" or "styles"
Each style is the same except different "special moves".
These styles are chosen at character-select screen (you cannot change them in-game, like stances in deception)
For example recent Raiden reveal features 3 styles:
Style1: Raiden has variety of offencive specials
Style2: Raiden has teleportation from MK9
Style3: Raiden can place lightning traps

So you have to "chose" which version of character you want to play.
Sounds pretty fun does it?
Well if you think a bit about it - not really

You can already say, from the way Ed Boon speaks and the way its recieved, that this "styles" are taking on "Matchup difficulties" that haunted INGAU. Style 1 to adress rushdown, style 2 to counter zoning. etc
It is a patch to the problem rather than a fix.

Sub Zero picks Grandmaster style and decimated Cassie in Brawler style
Cassie then switch to Spec Ops style and Airstrike SZ into oblivion
SZ then grabs Cryomancer style and turns the game around yet again.
Is playing 7-3 MU's is fun for you? Truly?

Well if SZ Clone is not a "magic wall" but a way to control distance. When Raiden of course can teleport behind clone, but SZ has "armor on" or parry, so Raiden decides he will rather put a lightining trap behind SZ.
When projectiles are a way to bait mistake not an inpenetrable "fireball forest" you have to patiently sit-trhough.
When character cannot force one aspect on his game on another character. When everyone has something for close and far and when everyone has something to counter close and far.
That makes an interesting, complicated and original game.

Simply put - the more options character has the less matchup factor.
So if NRS just let that concept go we'd have characters with a bigger movelists. More specials. More deepness. More matchup diversity. Better balance.
Just let characters use all styles and you will get a game that possibilities will be unlocked for years. A game, which MU's will evolve as player skill grows, not as patches or DLC's are released.

 

[DevilMaySpy]

Matchup numbers a year before release?

We have no way of knowing how good or bad it is because the game doesn't exist yet.

 

[Rickyraws]

I think the variations are very very good idea and a simple solution to MU problems.


However I am VERY VERY doubtful that they will be balanced enough to prevent gaping flaws/ obvious overabundance with certain characters at least initially. If they were simple tweaks, it wouldn't be that big of a deal, but it also wouldn't be as exciting, cool and fun as it would be if they were drastic changes. Drastic changes seems to be what they're going for.


But we're waaaaaaaay too early to be anywhere close to an accurate conjecture.

 

[Rathalos]

I can understand your argument, but I do not agree with it.
I like characters having clearly defined rolls, I don't want all the characters to have a huge selection of tools, and have everyone be good at everything. Makes everyone feel the same.

The variation thing is a weird way to go about it, but it at least lets character loyalists have a better shot at some of more annoying match ups.

 

[CamChattic]

It's like no one ever heard of grooves or isms

 

[Belial]

What do you mean too early
Wouldnt it be too late if brought up any later?
What are the benefits of having 3 styles opposed to having 3-in-1?
There are none except artificial restrictions that would only make balance worse.
Because counterpicks are bad. Counterpicks are a sign of poor balance.

What most people seem to miss is that IT DOESNT ACTUALLY FIX BALANCE.
If character could switch styles in a match - it would, but you cant
It will not affect MU's b/c SubZero1 =/= SubZero2 they are different characters with similiar movelist.
The whole "counterpicking" is decided at character select screen. This is exactly what 3-styles adress. And instead of "fixing" counterpicks (by making character more diverse) they actually encourage it (by making them more focused on one aspect)

 

[Braindead]

I am just worried that it's going to be a counter-pick fest in tournaments.

 

[Jaku2011]

I actually agree with this I've been worried about the 3 styles thing from the start i mean it's pretty obvious that there are going to be several characters who have a style that is broken, and at least 1 of them will be overlooked by the time of the final patch.

 

[Swindle]

What do you mean too early
Wouldnt it be too late if brought up any later?
What are the benefits of having 3 styles opposed to having 3-in-1?
There are none except artificial restrictions that would only make balance worse.
Because counterpicks are bad. Counterpicks are a sign of poor balance.

What most people seem to miss is that IT DOESNT ACTUALLY FIX BALANCE.
If character could switch styles in a match - it would, but you cant
It will not affect MU's b/c SubZero1 =/= SubZero2 they are different characters with similiar movelist.
The whole "counterpicking" is decided at character select screen. This is exactly what 3-styles adress. And instead of "fixing" counterpicks (by making character more diverse) they actually encourage it (by making them more focused on one aspect)

…and I just received word that NRS has heard your plight! After careful deliberation, they have unanimously agreed that you, Belial, are 100% correct. The variations will be removed per your request, and "MKBelialX" will now be released 8 months ahead of schedule. Although we will never know what could have been, I think we should breathe a collective sigh of relief that we narrowly avoided ALL of the obvious pitfalls that the ridiculous variations idea would have wrought upon us. GG, brother B!!!!!!!!

 

[CamChattic]

Who cares about character balance its all about engine balance Darkstalkers is a game with characters that 6-4 /7-3 most of the cast and others that 3-7 against most of the cast yet at high level every character has a near equal amount of tournament wins. Virtua fighter and tekken don't have the same level of tier disparity but have characters that stand waaaaaay above the rest of the cast yet every character wins tournaments. Your going to get hard countered in tournament its going to happen games where different characters have different tools are going to have characters whos tools are suited to nullify other characters tools the whole purpose of the mechanic is so that you don't have to

A)Learn a COMPLETELY new character to deal with your counters
B)Learn a character you don't even like to deal with your counter

 

[Belial]

Swindle: why not, actually? its a long time till release and NRS listens to community
Even if it doesnt change much it will still show them how we feel and if we prove right, they might just change that next time. Or be a better listener next time.

 

[Swindle]

I think you did not read my post. YOU'VE WON, CHARLIE!!! MY BOY, YOU'VE DONE IT!!!!!

 

[CamChattic]

News flash you are one person you are not the community

 

[Belial]

I think you did not read my post. YOU'VE WON, CHARLIE!!! MY BOY, YOU'VE DONE IT!!!!!

I've read your post and you are implying that no matter what we say NRS are not going to change a thing. I replied to that. If there are some deeper meaning to it pls indulge me.

Im just saying my opinion and I believe its justified.
There is no need for your sarcasm. If I am indeed a lone voice I will shut up.

 

[CamChattic]

NRS isn't going to change a thing because its too far into development artists have already created a shitton of assets for the different styles. There's already been a shit load of code written to implement the feature. There's a thing called a design document and that gets written revised and finalized before anything happens they may take our word as far as balancing things but to scrap the idea would mean scrapping the game at this point. Things like this are planned for well before development even begins. You may see 20% of the roster done and think the game is like 20% don't but in reality your looking at a 50-60% done project I'd guess just by knowing how a development pipeline works.

 

[Fractured_Shadow]

I'm about to hijack your thread.

The more important question is: Character lock or variation lock.

Character lock with the ability to switch between variations on win coupled with hidden cursor would make counterpicking EXTREAMLY difficult and ensure that the 3 variation theme fixed the problem of rampent CP'n.

 

[TarkatanDentist]

If you think about it, this '3 styles' technique is pretty damn similar to the palette swap technique used in early MK games. After all, back in those days, Scorpion and Sub-Zero differed only through their special moves. The same applies to Kitana/Mileena/Jade and Sektor/Cyrax/Smoke. This '3 styles' technique is basically that former palette swap technique times a thousand.

However, one thing we need to account for is that we don't know how much each variation affects gameplay yet. The difference might actually be tiny to the point of insignificance for certain characters or at least not significantly alter their playstyle.

It's a very interesting mechanic, which admittedly has a lot of potential to go wrong. But we shouldn't fret about that before the game is even out. Wait until it's released, play it for a couple of months to work out any kinks, and then make judgments on how broken or not broken it is.

 

[CamChattic]

I'm about to hijack your thread.

The more important question is: Character lock or variation lock.

Character lock with the ability to switch between variations on win coupled with hidden cursor would make counterpicking EXTREAMLY difficult and ensure that the 3 variation theme fixed the problem of rampent CP'n.

My vote would be for character lock variation lock defeats the purpose of the whole mechanic IMO

 

[THTB]

It's good.

Why?

Because it's good. And because we don't know how things will pan out yet.

Will it solve the matchup issues 100%? Possibly not. Does it matter? Not really. Why? Because people still give a fuck about games that aren't balanced in this day and age.

In the long run, no one actually does care about balance. They just like having fun with the game. If the game is fun and interesting despite being unbalanced, then no one's going to actually care.

 

[TaffyMeat]

GOOD VERY VERY GOOD BECAUSE I FUCKING HATE MIRROR MATCH. NOW WITH CHARACTER VARIATION YOU CAN HAVE MIRROR MATCH WITH DIFFERENT VERSIONS. UNTIL YOU GET BOTH PLAYERS CHOOSING THE SAME CHARACTER VARIATION. THEN YOU CAN GO AWAY XXX

 

[Fractured_Shadow]

My vote would be for character lock variation lock defeats the purpose of the whole mechanic IMO

Exactly. It would also make mastering your ENTIRE character more viable and worthwhile and it would make the tier list easier.

All in all variation lock is a terrible idea.

 

[EGGXI]

I'm sure the meta will evolve to the point where there is one hella broken character where it doesn't matter what style you pick you're still fucked.

Alternatively, we could wait til the game comes out and bitch about it then.

TBH if we're gonna panic about something pre-release and yell at NRS how about netcode?

 

[Flagg]

Why are there so many dicks on this site?

Okay Belial I get what youre saying and you probably know more about the intricasies of fighting mechanics more than most, but I do think the three stances is a good thing. I think it will add massively to depth. It doesn't make the characters seem one dimensional.

Tier lists will be very very interesting..

 

[Belial]

It's good.

Why?

Because it's good. And because we don't know how things will pan out yet.

Will it solve the matchup issues 100%? Possibly not. Does it matter? Not really. Why? Because people still give a fuck about games that aren't balanced in this day and age.

In the long run, no one actually does care about balance. They just like having fun with the game. If the game is fun and interesting despite being unbalanced, then no one's going to actually care.

Bad balance = little variety = boring. Industry grow, streams are often, tournaments feature big pots = big attention
You want your game and your franchise and you company look good on those
Which Kabal/Spam/Imbalance doesnt really compliment to
You are wrong assuming people do not care about balance. They do, just in a different way. Pro player is interested in discovering broken stuff to win tournaments. Regular player wants to see good balance among characters b/c its not fun to lose to broken stuff. Spectators want to see variety and crazy stuff they didnt know existed. Especially if each EVO this is not the same stuff they've seen before.

 

[Belial]

Why are there so many dicks on this site?

Okay Belial I get what youre saying and you probably know more about the intricasies of fighting mechanics more than most, but I do think the three stances is a good thing. I think it will add massively to depth. It doesn't make the characters seem one dimensional.

Tier lists will be very very interesting..

Tier list will not be that interesting b/c there will not be Raiden, but Raiden1, Raiden2 and Raiden3. Most ppl do not realize this.