MK9 System - How exactly does this game work?

[Noodlz]

So I finally got around to play MK9 some of my friends this weekend, and I've since realized how different this game is from street fighter/MVC, etc...However, so far the system doesn't seem like what I had thought it would be like. I am very confused at this moment and i'm sure there are a few people who feel the same way.

I thought that the game would be paced more like KOF where rushdowns, jumpins, mixups, and generally just a very fast paced game. Turns out, it seems like the game is much more of a block all day, and then punish with a hard combo. Much more like Tekken/Virtua fighter is, only it seems like you can simply crouch block the whole way as the jumpins don't seem effective, and the overheads seem too slow and get punished/countered easily. What me and my friends ended up doing was simply crouch blocking and waiting for the opponent to either make the first move/wiff something or finish a block string and then punish. eventually whoever was able to punish with the harder combo won.

Is this how the game works? I have a hard time believing that the game would such a turtle friendly game. There must be something I'm missing. Right now it seems like the game has no crossup options, very limited overhead and mixup options, no tickthrows. Looking at the percentages it doesn't really weigh out, with me doing 2% damages (up to 8% when the block the entire string just crouch blocking), and then getting punished with a 20+% combo when the string ends. Vice versa i ended up doing the same thing and thats how i've been able to win...

Also is this game more of a grounded kinda game like SF? or more aerial advantaged game like KOF/MVC? I see comparisons of this game to Tekken/VF but in this aspect the game doesn't really compare since your rarely jump in 3D games in comparison. How are the AA options in general in this game? Between jumpin attacks and AAs, which have more advantage/priority and which do more damage?

Would anyone who's figured out this game care to enlighten us who are konfused? I would be really cool if someone could breakdown how mixup options, pressuring, meaties/footsies, and blocking/countering/anti-air/reversals(wakeup games) worked in this game. Oh and also proper meter building and guides to usage would be awesome too

 

[DrDogg]

I'm not an expert on MK, but this is my take on it.

The game plays like a cross between Tekken and SF4, with a Mortal Kombat flavor. From a distance, it's a special move battle. If you have a teleport, or the opponent has a teleport, you have to be careful playing from a distance. If not, then you can spam projectiles and zone your opponent until they force their way in with wave dashing.

Jumping in any situation that is not considered a safe jump is very, very bad. It's somewhat character dependant, but from what I've seen, almost every character has good anti-air options, so it's in your best interests not to jump unless you're sure you can't get anti-aired.

Once you force your way in, the game shifts to play more like Tekken. You need to use quick pokes and safe block strings, mixing in throws. You do all of this to open up your opponent so you can pull off a combo.

It's very important to know what you can punish and how best to punish in every situation. It's similar to Tekken where you have to know the best punishment options for every situation to capitalize on your damage.

There's definitely a lot of blocking going on in the game, and some characters are very difficult to close in on. But I don't see it as a block and punish fest, at least not at high levels. If you're using combos that can be punished on block, you're using the wrong combos.

 

[Noodlz]

Thanks Dogg, thats some really sound advice. So it looks to be much more a grounded game than i thought it was. As far as close range combat i'll just have to figure out which combos are better than others, for each specific situation. I really like how the footsies/whiff punish and pressure game changes with the teleporters tho, makes the game pretty fun =)

 

[NickTheZombie]

You crouch blocking constantly = me throwing you constantly. Welcome to TYM, by the way!

 

[Noodlz]

LoL, thanx for the welcome =) Actually i've been trying to figure out the throwing crouch blocking opponents thing. It seems to whiff a lot and I'm not sure why. I believe that if they're just crouching it the throw whiffs, but even when i see them in block animation sometimes it still doesn't connect, and I have to be much closer than a regular throw to connect it. Is it a range thing? or more of a character hitbox thing? Any tips on that?

 

[NickTheZombie]

LoL, thanx for the welcome =) Actually i've been trying to figure out the throwing crouch blocking opponents thing. It seems to whiff a lot and I'm not sure why. I believe that if they're just crouching it the throw whiffs, but even when i see them in block animation sometimes it still doesn't connect, and I have to be much closer than a regular throw to connect it. Is it a range thing? or more of a character hitbox thing? Any tips on that?

You are correct, just crouching without blocking will cause your opponent's throw to whiff. Re: the inconsistency that you pointed out, I'm not sure as it's always acted consistently for me. Range is absolutely a consideration in the throw/block/throw tech game as you suspected. As far as tips, it's really a matter of practice. Once you've determined your main, you'll quickly get an idea of how effective their rushdown is, and this plays into how much you can punish with throws. For instance, Johnny Cage has a very fast dash, so he can get in on a crouch-blocking opponent and throw them before they can react.

Anyway, just thinking out loud at this point. I hope it gives you some ideas.

 

[water]

The following information is just my current opinion on MK9's system (Disclaimer: I am not a tournament player, just a casual like most):

A quick rundown of Pros/Cons of each Defensive Option (Not including movement options):

--- Standing block:
Avoids: n/a
Blocks: Overheads, Highs, Special Mids
Loses to: Throws, Lows, Unblockables

--- Crouching block:
Avoids: Highs (Some highs will not whiff -*-)
Blocks: Lows, Special Mids
Loses to: Throws, Overheads, Unblockables

--- Naked Crouch:
Avoids: Highs, Throws
Blocks: n/a
Loses to: Lows, Special Mids, Overheads, Unblockables

-*- Blocking makes you a little taller when crouching. Some things that you could Naked Crouch under like projectiles will make conact with you if you are blocking.

It is similar to a complex Rock, Paper, Scissor style system with some straight counters to some techniques.

*** MK9's system generally encourages Offense because:
-- As you can see from above information, it is hard to completely avoid attacks and in doing so, the defender takes a large risk.
-- Blocked attacks cause the attacker to gain meter and the defender to lose health.
-- Most chains and normals are safe on block. Some even give the attacker frame advantage.
-- Some chains/specials combinations include built in mixups of Lows and Overheads. This forces the defender to guess or react very very fast which is very difficult to do on a consistent basis. Some mixups are even safe on block as well.

Defense in this game is extremely important. I think it is what will separate the levels of players. Your best defense is to deny your opponent mixup options by: proper spacing to avoid them altogether; by counterpunching their offense; or by using your own offense to control the pace of the fight. If you can do this, blocking becomes your last option.

You will definitely have to block very well, but you simply cannot block all day to win. You will lose to throws or chip damage eventually if the attacker is playing safely. Even zone/runaway is difficult (though not impossible) since many characters have full screen punishes to projectiles.

Please correct me if I am missing something. I hope this helps!

 

[Einhander]

Agreed, the game's basic system seems to focus mainly on offense. However the game gives several abilities to still play a defensive game (NooB Saibot's everything) (Smoke's smoke away), so to balance those abilities, the system itself seems very offensive oriented.

 

[noobharvester]

what do i look for in offensive characters?

i noticed for example that jade, sektor seem to dash further than reptile and sub zero. does this mean sub and reptile aren't very good to bring in the attacks?

 

[Noodlz]

Just thought i'd add to water's awesome post breaking down this system. Since my first post i've realized the importance of frame advantage blockstrings in this game, as based on the character you use and your matchup. Knowledge of the safe/frame advantage strings, mixups, and spacing really add a much strong mindgame aspect to this game that I totally did not expect, which is awesome =)

I've just recently learned about dash blocking and juggle states, which seem to be really powerful, since after you get a hit to juggle state you can safely dash block in and either bait out a move and punish it hard, or mix it up as they block, and eventually push them to the corner. It seems like there's a lot of advanced system mechanics that are still being explored.

I'm still learning the game, but here's my 2cents:

i think for offensive/rushdown characters, you'll need someone like johnny cage or sonya. To me they're hardcore offensive characters given their speed and variety of fast high/low/overhead mixups and strong comboability. You'll also need to look into if their blockstrings are safe/give frame advantage too, also if they have fast startup moves/strings, especially from crouch, that could be pretty deadly.

You might also look at the tools available for them. For a rushdown character you'd need ways to get in fast, and relatively safe. Jade can probably excel at this with her shadowflash. One of the reasons kung lao is pretty popular right now is probably because he has a lot of effective tools to deal with a lot of situations, plus he has very strong blockstrings and mixups.

Not too sure about sub and reptile since i haven't really played them much, but i think both of them have pretty good normals and blockstrings. I know sub's 22 string is very safe and is pretty hard to punish with normals, and i think he can put on a good pressure game. both of them have good slide moves to get in via punish. Sektor on the other hand i think is risky as an offensive characters since hes normals aren't the fastest, and his specials are very punishable on block/whiff. He seems more of a bait and punish>combo type of character to me

 

[water]

Just thought i'd add to water's awesome post breaking down this system.

Thanks for the vote of confidence; I am glad to help. =) I think you covered Offensive character's tools pretty well. Is it safe to assume that you are now able shut down the turtle fest that you mentioned in the opening post?

what do i look for in offensive characters?

i noticed for example that jade, sektor seem to dash further than reptile and sub zero. does this mean sub and reptile aren't very good to bring in the attacks?

Dash distance is not much of an indicator of offensive abilities imo, since dashes can be block cancelled and repeated (i.e. f,f,BL,repeat). This is actually a safer way to advance in general than fully dashing.

@noobharvester, are you looking for help in selecting an offensive character to learn? If you can describe the style of gameplay you want, we may be able to assist (safeplay, risky, pressure, mixups, balanced, etc.). You can also list specific tools you like to have at your disposal.

 

[noobharvester]

maybe you could tell me the style of play of the characters i enjoy? right now i find reptile, sub and sektor cool. i find ermac interesting but i'm not to good with that one yet.

 

[water]

maybe you could tell me the style of play of the characters i enjoy? right now i find reptile, sub and sektor cool. i find ermac interesting but i'm not to good with that one yet.

Well, if you have already narrowed down your selection to those 3 or 4 characters, then all that is left to do is learn them. The character specific forums are a great place to start; specifically the Character Guides by Tom Brady. They are already complete for Reptile & Sub-Zero. I think he is working on Ermac's. Otherwise the other threads also have alot of info. The game is still so new, so there is much to be explored and discovered.

Of those characters, do you enjoy certain aspects of their gameplay? Or did you choose them based on looks/story?

 

[Noodlz]

Actually yea I don't really worry about the turtle fest i mentioned before now. I think the main issue before was a specific match up with me playing noob saibot against my friend who turtled with scorpion and punished hard. At the time didn't really know how to play noob and didn't know his overheads. Plus i kept trying to rush him down with noob and his damage output in general just doesn't compare to scorpion especially when played as a rushdown. Now I play Him with Kung Lao ,Sektor, and smoke & i destroy him when he turtles =) I'm actually thinking of picking up reptile as well now after looking at the guide and the video tut on the front page. Really liking the 321 all mid mixup. Definitely seems to be a very strong anti-turtle character

 

[noobharvester]

Well, if you have already narrowed down your selection to those 3 or 4 characters, then all that is left to do is learn them. The character specific forums are a great place to start; specifically the Character Guides by Tom Brady. They are already complete for Reptile & Sub-Zero. I think he is working on Ermac's. Otherwise the other threads also have alot of info. The game is still so new, so there is much to be explored and discovered.

Of those characters, do you enjoy certain aspects of their gameplay? Or did you choose them based on looks/story?

I enjoy reptile because I find him difficult to play and originally thought he was a rush down character. Also because I was hoping he had a ninja alt costume lol.

I like sub because I thought he was strong but I find both of these guys to have difficulty closing in on teleporters, which is where sektor came in.

If you could tell me the general type of char these are and how their playstyles are meant to be played I could eliminate those which don't suit my combat approach;

ermac, jade, smoke, noob, sektor, sub, reptile

 

[water]

I enjoy reptile because I find him difficult to play and originally thought he was a rush down character. Also because I was hoping he had a ninja alt costume lol.

I like sub because I thought he was strong but I find both of these guys to have difficulty closing in on teleporters, which is where sektor came in.

If you could tell me the general type of char these are and how their playstyles are meant to be played I could eliminate those which don't suit my combat approach;

ermac, jade, smoke, noob, sektor, sub, reptile

If you are a beginner, I would highly suggest picking 1 or 2 characters and sticking with them until you feel very comforatable with the game engine. Even if you have to choose them at random, you are better off learning the game in general first before worrying too much about character specifics. You can then branch out if you want to learn someone new or experiment.

Do not be afraid of choosing a "wrong" or "bad" character. All characters so far seem at least viable in beginner to mid level play. Even if you make a "bad" pick, you can learn what they are missing that makes them difficult or unenjoyable for you to use (like your example of choosing Sektor to gain a teleport).

Once you understand the game engine, you can then analyze the toolset for each character more effectively and choose based on your own experience and knowledge.

 

[HollowTatsumaki]

I just play this game suuuuuuuuuuuuuuper offensive.

 

[noobharvester]

ok thanks for your advice.

 

[Smoo]

*** MK9's system generally encourages Offense because:
-- As you can see from above information, it is hard to completely avoid attacks and in doing so, the defender takes a large risk.
-- Blocked attacks cause the attacker to gain meter and the defender to lose health.
-- Most chains and normals are safe on block. Some even give the attacker frame advantage.
-- Some chains/specials combinations include built in mixups of Lows and Overheads. This forces the defender to guess or react very very fast which is very difficult to do on a consistent basis. Some mixups are even safe on block as well.

Defense in this game is extremely important. I think it is what will separate the levels of players. Your best defense is to deny your opponent mixup options by: proper spacing to avoid them altogether; by counterpunching their offense; or by using your own offense to control the pace of the fight. If you can do this, blocking becomes your last option.

You will definitely have to block very well, but you simply cannot block all day to win. You will lose to throws or chip damage eventually if the attacker is playing safely. Even zone/runaway is difficult (though not impossible) since many characters have full screen punishes to projectiles.

Please correct me if I am missing something. I hope this helps!

I want to post to say how helpful this post has been. Learning combos is the easy part. Learning the basic strategy to be effective in the game has been the hard part. It's my biggest challenge and it's what's made the biggest difference in my skill.

I was blocking and trying to punish when the opponent whiffed, but the problem is that a good player won't whiff up close because they're using safe strings. I feel that blocking really is the worst option because you lose life, they gain meter, it's hard to turn around and initiate offense, and they're going to eventually land a string, throw, or sweep. When I'm blocking I'm generally screwed and I'm not working to control the match.

 

[evansgambit]

Is this how the game works? I have a hard time believing that the game would such a turtle friendly game. There must be something I'm missing. Right now it seems like the game has no crossup options, very limited overhead and mixup options, no tickthrows. Looking at the percentages it doesn't really weigh out, with me doing 2% damages (up to 8% when the block the entire string just crouch blocking), and then getting punished with a 20+% combo when the string ends. Vice versa i ended up doing the same thing and thats how i've been able to win...

Yeah, you sometimes should stop your blocked combo strings at different points, especially before they become unsafe. And also if your opponent has seen you constantly spamming the same combo. Ocassionally stop it short and go for a throw.

All shall be revealed once we have the frame data, especially tick throws, block strings and punishes.

 

[water]

I want to post to say how helpful this post has been. Learning combos is the easy part. Learning the basic strategy to be effective in the game has been the hard part. It's my biggest challenge and it's what's made the biggest difference in my skill.

I was blocking and trying to punish when the opponent whiffed, but the problem is that a good player won't whiff up close because they're using safe strings. I feel that blocking really is the worst option because you lose life, they gain meter, it's hard to turn around and initiate offense, and they're going to eventually land a string, throw, or sweep. When I'm blocking I'm generally screwed and I'm not working to control the match.

When blocking, actively watch their offense for openings. It has a lot to do with character knowledge and knowing what/how to punish like Tekken. Many offensive block strings start with High attacks since they are usually the fastest moves. Concentrate on recognizing Highs and Throws within their offense, then Naked Crouch to punish. You have to punish them immediately since the 2nd hit in the string is usually a Mid.

 

[Jandek]

Noodlz!

As a tekken player picking up MK it makes me ecstatic to have the mythbuster (to quote aris) of fighting games dissecting MK

 

[Noodlz]

Ah, yeah i've come to realized that a lot of the strings have the flexibility of not being finished and cancellable at various points of the strings to mix things. I was just play around with kabal and realized his 11b43 string really doesn't need the 3, and you can actually cancel right after 11 too. Now that i've gotten a lot more knowledge about the string properties, safe vs unsafe & mixups i think my game has improved a bit. Would be awesome to have that frame data! =P

@Jandek - Yeah man, I'm psyched that the tekken guys are into this game! I think after some time we should be able to see some quality breakdown in the blockstring mechanics of this game from the Tekken OGs.

 

[Jandek]

Yeah linking the first two hits into a special seems to be key for combo start/mix up opportunities for characters

I have been using mostly sub and it seems that his 2,2 string starts nearly all of his offense up, whether that be linking into freeze on hit or finishing the string, or going into slide for mix up etc.

I definitely would like to know even crude statistics of some of the strings as they definitely seem to lock down the defender pretty bad in most cases.