MK2 - Tier Ranking + Discussion, Round 1, FIGHT!!

[DJ Ramsey]

Mortal Kombat II - 2009 Tier Rankings
There seems to be a clear line between the top 3 and the rest of the cast. While mid could still be successful in competition, bank on the 3 golden children.

==UPDATED==
TOP
Liu Kang
Jax
Mileena

MID
Shang Tsung
Kung Lao
Kitana
Scorpion

LOW
Raiden
Johnny Cage
Sub-Zero
Baraka
Reptile


Full match-up chart can be seen below
*Thanks to Konqrr and ScheissNussen

-DJ

 

[DJ Ramsey]

Ya these lists are very close but im gonna give Konqrr and you guys the benefit of the doubt considering you guys are more up to date and got more info than me. That Jax vs Liu matchup makes all the difference in placement of the top 3. Never thought Jax would be above Mileena and Liu in 1st? wow.

good shit and updated.

 

[STORMS]

I'm thinking I'm gonna be getting on MKII very soon... prepare to have some easy wins.

 

[tonshaad1230]

I agree with the rest of the people.... Like when SN made his comment...


"SubZero has the combo ability, he just doesn't have effective setups.
Every on ground freeze has the potential to be a deep jk, ground freeze, deep cross-over jk, jk or can come out to around 50%. If he had more ways to set these things up, he would be a hell of a lot higher"

actually thats a nice way of putting that but I tested that theory a little while back, and the results were acurate. He should be high then Scorpion, he should be 1 step high then Scorpion, but not higher than Kitana. She has a deep HK/JK combo that ends with either uppercut or a low/high kick, or a deep fan throw. So quite frankly Sub-Zero should be higher in terms of tier listings.

 

[MKChampion]

All week I've been formulating nothing but truthful statements to suggest that this is fake but people continue to believe it!!! There is absolutely no way that you can determine based on the characters "options" which one will win, and it's stupid for people to even waste their time trying to really seriously try to explain what in reality will be an unexpected fight. If the tier system is real then after I tell you who I'm going to pick in a match and you tell me who you're going to pick we might as well not pick either one or even play the damn game for that matter because we already know how the damn match up is going to be like if we continue to play with those characters!! How can one actually believe that as a player, no matter what you do, no matter how well you are, and no matter how skilled you are depending on which character you pick means that the outcome will not have changed regardless of what you do and how well of a player you are!!?? Someone please explain why most players believe this false system, because I believe the system is believed by players to justify their failures at that particular but whenever they win against a match up they claim that the character they chose is better because of their skill and because of that character. I strongly believe that any character in any fighting game can beat any character in any fighting game, it all depends on how well you the player are with that particular character and so I hate this so called system and it's nothing but a huge waste of time. And for those who wish to defend the tier system try a different approach than merely explaining the purpose of tiering because I already know the purpose which is to justify failure so please try another angle worthy of arguing.

 

[Krayzie]

All week I've been formulating nothing but truthful statements to suggest that this is fake but people continue to believe it!!! There is absolutely no way that you can determine based on the characters "options" which one will win, and it's stupid for people to even waste their time trying to really seriously try to explain what in reality will be an unexpected fight. If the tier system is real then after I tell you who I'm going to pick in a match and you tell me who you're going to pick we might as well not pick either one or even play the damn game for that matter because we already know how the damn match up is going to be like if we continue to play with those characters!! How can one actually believe that as a player, no matter what you do, no matter how well you are, and no matter how skilled you are depending on which character you pick means that the outcome will not have changed regardless of what you do and how well of a player you are!!?? Someone please explain why most players believe this false system, because I believe the system is believed by players to justify their failures at that particular but whenever they win against a match up they claim that the character they chose is better because of their skill and because of that character. I strongly believe that any character in any fighting game can beat any character in any fighting game, it all depends on how well you the player are with that particular character and so I hate this so called system and it's nothing but a huge waste of time. And for those who wish to defend the tier system try a different approach than merely explaining the purpose of tiering because I already know the purpose which is to justify failure so please try another angle worthy of arguing.

The tier system is very real. In a competitive environment you would most definitely want to know around what tier your character is before you fight. It makes a big difference going into a blind match, than going into a match with knowledge. I honestly believe that all characters can compete, as long as the person using the character is competent towards the matchup and his/her opponent. But you cannot just outlaw the difference between going into a match with a low tier, than a high tier. It does make a difference, specially when your opponent understands your low tier.

The outcome is not about tiers, its about balance. If you ask me who would win in a match between Dairou and Kai on MK:Armageddon, I will say Dairou 100x, so long as the person playing these characters are competent players. If the game is unbalanced, you better believe there is a big notable difference.

 

[MKChampion]

This system is still bogus

First of all, where does it say that?
A tier list ranks a characters options and ease of use in a tournament setting and player ability is assumed to be completely equal. Of course if you are a much better player than someone, you are going to win, but that doesn't make the character better because of it.

The only thing that is potentially wrong with that tier list is Mil, Jax and Liu ranking because Jax and Mil are easier to use. Liu is higher at highest level of play otherwise, but is harder to use.

If you want to know more about it, try to leave your emotions out of it and learn instead of having a panic attack over text, and I will be more than happy to explain some of it to you.

Ok, I understand that there are ways in which players could grade their characters based on functionality and options but a the same time those stats (because that's what they are, just stats made up by the players themselves) are worthless in any tournament and any regular fight outside of tournaments, it's just a simple way of explaining someones opinion of whose easier to use, and whatever the true purpose of the tier system, it never helped me to kick a lot of ass, and I whooped plenty of ass in fighting games across the board: Tekken, Dead Or Alive, Mortal Kombat, etc and never once even believed in this system as I still don't!! I purposely use the alleged weaker characters to further disprove what's already false to begin with. Even if this system was real(which it isn't), it could never exist within a match with two players fighting against each other, there is no system that can determine the outcome. And you can sit there and say how the tier system doesn't predict or dictate the characters and what they do, because it would have to in order to successfully calculate the outcome of a battle regardless of what the character does or says. The tier system only comes in useful when someone wants to know the mere stats of a player, it has no place in real time gaming (1 vs 1) because of the players' unpredictability and the general ignorance of one players stratagems against another! It's bogus and Don't say anything about my emotions because I leave them at the door when I enter these chats and use nothing but facts and REAL common sense and hear idiots like you try your best to justify why you lost at a game and the disadvantages you were faced with... all the characters have both advantages and disadvantages and so you have to learn (as a player) how to overcome them and be the better player, but clearly you aren't. This system is very much believed by you which shows that you need to pick only the higher tier characters just to win a match, so what happens if you happen to go against the stats with say a low tier character? Would that not be disproving the damn tier system???? It's all just an opinion with you guys, all of you who agree with the nonsense! Unless I see an official document stating which characters are where on the damn tier list, an official document stating this!!! I'm not going to follow this stupid fan made forum list that anyone can make up on there own!!!! As previously stated by someone in the earlier post, this is made up, at least that's what's implied by there statement. So if this tier system is real then RAIDEN is at the top of the list along with Shang Tsung, why not? At one point he could become any and every character in the game which did or did not give him far more options that others???????? You're entitled to your opinions but when you sit here and impose this list and say that it's fact that's where the bullshit starting coming out, at least more than before!!!

 

[Juggs]

snip

Tier lists aren't there to say "this character will always beat/lose to this character X amount of times". It's hypothetical situations, based on what the character can and cannot do. Also the advantages and disadvantages VS certain characters. Low tier can beat high tier, no one is saying that isn't true. Low tier just has to work harder to win, and will always be the underdog in the match. Two players with equal skills, one picks top tier, the other picks bottom tier. In this situation, the player who picked top tier has a better chance of winning. Not that they WILL in fact win, but they have the advantage BEFORE the match.

Sure, there are people who say "I only lost because it was a bad match-up", or "I only lost because I used low tier" or "You can only win with high tier". There will ALWAYS be people like that. They are called scrubs. They have to make up an excuse for why the lost, and the prime excuse is blaming it on things other than themselves.

 

[MKChampion]

SubZero has the combo ability, he just doesn't have effective setups.
Every on ground freeze has the potential to be a deep jk, ground freeze, deep cross-over jk, jk or can come out to around 50%. If he had more ways to set these things up, he would be a hell of a lot higher.

Top tier is always between Jax, Liu, and Mileena, and will most likely always be up in the air.

HIGHEST possible level of play, Liu is #1 but it is hard for most players to obtain unless they specialize with him. Jax is thought of as #1 as well depending on who you ask, because he has the most options, damage and reach in the game, AND is easy to use.

Mileena is just a big pain in the ass, but high level players can deal with spamming if that is the concern. She can't be safe against Liu, due to low fireball counters and potential of death punch into bike kick, hk or lk punishers for her other specials.

My personal tier list, I put them all as highest tier. There is no sense arguing over it, since it is so close.

Here is what Konqrr came up with which I agree with for the most part:

Raiden is a wild card, most people don't use him to his full potential.
Same with sub, except he is harder to be effective with for chip damage and close kombat.

Other Wildcards: Scorpion and Lao, which rely on head games and precision.

So you mean to tell me that, that big ass chart up there is nothing more than a hypothetical??!!!?!?!?!?!?!? If so, why do you believe it? If it's just a hypothetical it just makes your belief in it all the more stupid because your saying that anyone can make this list and have it be just a hypothetical (meaning it's say it's just a "what if" so to speak) and have tons and tons of people believing it!!!!! How can you believe a hypthetical to be true!! it's just a "what if" scenario nothing more than a fan made idea, how can you sit here and believe it to be true? Don't say you don't because your support for it earlier says otherwise.

 

[Juggs]

So you mean to tell me that, that big ass chart up there is nothing more than a hypothetical??!!!?!?!?!?!?!? If so, why do you believe it? If it's just a hypothetical it just makes your belief in it all the more stupid because your saying that anyone can make this list and have it be just a hypothetical (meaning it's say it's just a "what if" so to speak) and have tons and tons of people believing it!!!!! How can you believe a hypthetical to be true!! it's just a "what if" scenario nothing more than a fan made idea, how can you sit here and believe it to be true? Don't say you don't because your support for it earlier says otherwise.

Don't really know what you're talking about. What do you mean "believe it"? Yes, it's a hypothetical, just the same way in Boxing or MMA, one of the fighters is more often than not favored before the match over the other. And the one who is favored doesn't always win. You keep saying people believe it, what the hell are you talking about?

 

[AREZ God of War]

Any chance we could focus on the Tier list instead of True/False questions? MKChampion, u said u leave ur emotions at home but you are clearly putting forth alot of emotion in your posts.....a child could see that, Sir. Relax, certain character just seem to have more tools to work with than others, that how it works, especially w/ a broken, unbalanced series like Mortal Kombat. I used to think tier lists were bullshit, but you have to understand where they are coming from. In games like SF or Tekken or VF it's a little different and 2 people of equal skill CAN win w/ anyone because those games are relatively balanced, but MK-online is not the least bit balanced, let alone consistent. I suggest you go play MKDCU and tell me how many Shao Kahns and Green Lanterns you can beat w/ Batman....lol, it's not happening unless the other sucks. If u want to discuss the legitemacy of tiers, make a separate thread for it instead of using a current tier list thread.

NOW, my input: Are we ranking Shang Tsung as himself or morphs included? I also think Kitana should be #4 or at least #5 on the list...her zoning game is excellent and she has among the most damaging combos in the game, as well as speed and decent set-ups. Also, why is Baraka so low? He has the best JK in the game, bar-none and also the best JK-counter in the game (Blade Fury) which only teleporters can get around when used appropriately.

 

[Tim Static]

17 years worth of playing this game has gone into making this tier list.

You gave me a book to read, i gave you a sentence.

 

[DanCock]

ok ummm just saw the first post.. arent tier list based off of how characters perform vs the whole cast not just HIGH TIER VS HIGH TIER????? i totally agree that liu is better then Jax and Mil but the rest of the cast can give him fits that the cast DOES NOT give Mil and Jax.
Mileena Competes vs the other 2 higher tiers and crushes the rest, Liu and Jax dont crush the rest..

Raiden is a mid tier. its foolish having him in the Low tier area.. In my MK2 prime i had MK2Prince calling my Raiden "cheesey and cheap". i will say most people do use raiden wrong tho..

It should be

1 ~ Mileena
2 ~ Jax
3 ~ Liu


but what do i know.....

 

[Konqrr]

Should be like this:

TOP
Jax, ease of use, reach, gp
Liu Kang/Mileena<-interchangable, mileena beats liu in their matchup

UPPER-MID
Kung Lao
Kitana
Shang Tsung, jabs, high priority hk/jk, short sprite ducks under bigger characters' jabs.
Raiden

LOWER-MID
Scorpion
Cage
Sub-Zero, when you have a life lead on him, it is very hard for him to mount a comeback.

LOW
Baraka/Reptile, interchangeable, they are both bad and have limited options.

-----------------------
Raiden has one of the better sweeps in the game, I can't remember which but it either hits sooner or recovers sooner than everyone elses. He can spam it like no other. Jab spam that forces pushback into teleport for more jabs is too good. The threat of a shock grab when landing next to his opponent keeps them blocking so he can jab and sweep after doing unsafe moves. What makes Raiden's jab game so good is that he has the shock grab always on alert. If his opponent tries to poke him by letting go of block, they eat a shock grab into rh/hk/combo whatever for at least 30% damage. Superman is very punishable by everyone in the game. The only character that has a hard time punishing it is Reptile. Great HK, great Uppercut, great Sweep, great jab game, but what brings it all home is the shenanigans with superman and the shock grab. Unsafe stuff. Raiden is great, but only mid-tier great. Also, Raiden is one of those few characters that the Male Ninjas can jab.

 

[MKF30]

I hate Jax in MK2 lol

 

[tonshaad1230]

Heres my input:
4.Kitana
5.Shang tsung
6.Kung Lao
7.Raiden

How did Raiden get lower then scorpion when Raiden can be anywhere on the screen? Has one of the nicer sweeps, and his aaHP can lead to alot of options.

 

[MKF30]

I think Raiden should be higher then 7 personally, like mid at least some where. If used right, he's a beast lol

But I do agree that Jax/Liu Kang are top guys, not sure who's more annoying. Mileena is up there too but IMO not nearly as annoying as Jax/Liu Kang in MK2

Poor Reptile, lol in MK@ he's not that great.

 

[DreamTR]

That chart needs to be heavily adjusted. 9-1 matchups? You kidding me? 8-2 matchups? LOL

 

[Sao87]

That chart needs to be heavily adjusted. 9-1 matchups? You kidding me? 8-2 matchups? LOL

Edit, this is mk2 nevermind..

 

[Demonfang10]

Mkchamp, you might not be here but you should please for the love of god dumb your posts down a bit and make it shorter.

 

[Enenra]

Poor reptile. Don't worry, MK9 likes you.

 

[gdf]

Mkchamp, you might not be here but you should please for the love of god dumb your posts down a bit and make it shorter.

Are you talking about MKchamp92?

 

[1man3letters]

why is mileena top? is it just because the power of her roll?

 

[MIKECALDWELL]

What in the hell was MKCHAMPION thinking? Is he trying to tell us that reptile has an equal chance of beating mileena? I guarantee you in a tournament he'll be the first to run to a top tier character, or go ahead and pick reptile and see what happens. lol.