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MK11 Rewards Patient Players

Kenshi-Keanu-Kool

D1 mashing is the tactic when skill fails !
yessssssssssss . we all know the drill . The footsies , the spacing and the neutral . I have been hearing yhis crap since injustice 1 . Patience should not be a word related with a game called MORTL KOMBAT . lET THE SNOBBISH SELF EGO BEGIN !!!
 

Obly

Ambiguous world creator
Oh absolutely, I like that you can be a setup, rushdown or zoning/defensive player and be successful as long as you know the fundies.
I hope you're right. I dunno though... fundamentals are like the laws of physics for fighting games--there's only so much they can be bent to keep everything balanced.

Based off of the characters we've been able to play, this is true.

But Liu Kang, Jax, Jacqui, and some others might change this.
...
I think most of the game will be midrange punish characters, but you will still have offensive powerhouses and zoners. Against these characters, I could see how you approach the game and match-ups could change quite a bit.
I worry a bit that (at least for the first round of the game's life) rushdown characters like these are still going to dominate. It seems like a lot of characters have been built for either range or speed. Range-y folks like Jade and Kotal might keep you out for a while with excellent footsies, and rushdowners definitely have to respect them and be patient, but once they get in, speed wins. I see these mid-range folks struggling to break out of close-range pressure.

Add the fact that the fastest characters have also been given some insane mobility and rushdown tools (Jacqui: super jump and rocket punch; Liu: flying kick and 50/50 mix-up teleport [WTF?!]), and I start to get nervous. Too early to know anything yet though...

I think he only gains heat when he hits the opponent, I don't think block pressure counts. I could be wrong, though. If he does gain heat on block then that's insane -- especially if he has safe strings.
Ha, I just rewatched the Tyler (Jax) and Derek (Jade) match from the Kombat Kast, but Derek never actually blocked a whole string so it was impossible to tell. :confused: I'm betting he doesn't gain heat on block though, or if he does, it's a whole lot less.
 

Circus

Part-Time Kano Hostage
yessssssssssss . we all know the drill . The footsies , the spacing and the neutral . I have been hearing yhis crap since injustice 1 . Patience should not be a word related with a game called MORTL KOMBAT . lET THE SNOBBISH SELF EGO BEGIN !!!
I wouldn't worry about the offense lacking in MK11.

The whole point of MK11 is that EVERYTHING is counter-able, so you have to put more thought behind everything you do. This even applies to zoning too. 90% of the cast has an option that puts up a huge middle-finger to people who predictably chuck fireballs at you like Injustice2.

In the same way, you can't just run someone down with safe pressure either.

Offense still exists and it's great.
Defense still exists and it's great

But what's the greatest is the fact that both need to be done thoughtfully instead of it being "Who can start their oppressive/safe strategy first?".
 

Gamer68

Fujin!
I worry a bit that (at least for the first round of the game's life) rushdown characters like these are still going to dominate. It seems like a lot of characters have been built for either range or speed. Range-y folks like Jade and Kotal might keep you out for a while with excellent footsies, and rushdowners definitely have to respect them and be patient, but once they get in, speed wins. I see these mid-range folks struggling to break out of close-range pressure.

Add the fact that the fastest characters have also been given some insane mobility and rushdown tools (Jacqui: super jump and rocket punch; Liu: flying kick and 50/50 mix-up teleport [WTF?!]), and I start to get nervous. Too early to know anything yet though...
I think there's a pretty good chance that rushdown and zoning characters will dominate the online space for the first few weeks, and I say this just because I think people have conditioned themselves to expect the game will ONLY be about footsies. Like I mentioned before, this game does have a lot of "midrange punish" characters and NRS is obviously trying to push a footsie-heavy meta, but that isn't the only play-style in the game.

I do think Liu Kang's insane 50/50s, Jax's pressure, Jacqui's mobility, Cetrion's zoning, etc, will catch people off guard if they haven't been paying attention and will seem very strong for a few weeks before everyone figures it out.
 

Obly

Ambiguous world creator
That’s if certain players don’t get defensive options nerfed into the ground, lol.
Yeah, I remember seeing SonicFox's feedback on the stress test where he was coming down hard on the breakaway mechanic. I actually think it's a good point that you shouldn't be able to breakaway and then punish the player who got the hit, but I hope it isn't nerfed as badly as he was advocating.

Other than the breakaway, defensive options already don't seem that strong...? Rolls have a relatively high cost for the short range, and can be punished by throws. Leaping corner escapes are still good though.

And did anyone actually use parries a lot in the beta? I was shocked to see they all had 12 frame startups--wuh?? Insanely slow. So parrying gaps in strings is now impossible, it seems. You literally just have to throw out the parry and hope your opponent is mashing.
 

Kenshi-Keanu-Kool

D1 mashing is the tactic when skill fails !
I wouldn't worry about the offense lacking in MK11.

The whole point of MK11 is that EVERYTHING is counter-able, so you have to put more thought behind everything you do. This even applies to zoning too. 90% of the cast has an option that puts up a huge middle-finger to people who predictably chuck fireballs at you like Injustice2.

In the same way, you can't just run someone down with safe pressure either.

Offense still exists and it's great.
Defense still exists and it's great

But what's the greatest is the fact that both need to be done thoughtfully instead of it being "Who can start their oppressive/safe strategy first?".
That happens in any fighting game . This MK fells pretty much like mk9 . im not saying i want mk 10 again , but saying that MK X was brain dead , that was for noobs and players dont like mk 11 because theres no run button makes no sense . i can play mk9 and mkx , both are great - i just dont want mk to become a slow game like injustice or SF . A good fighting game doesnt have to be based only on footsies and neutral . They already did that with injustice - look what it happen . everytime i go online in injustice . people just back dash or do walk back all the fight , thats not being patient , Thats being boring .
 

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
Other than the breakaway, defensive options already don't seem that strong...? Rolls have a relatively high cost for the short range, and can be punished by throws.
My problem with defensive options is that NRS always turns one of them into offensive options which they shouldn't be.
I see potential in the defense. All of the defensive options can be punished but that doesn't mean they are weak. MK11 has probably the best def options ever. It's a guess game on rolls even though it can be punished by throw you have to guess they are gonna do that or it gives the opponent the advantage in pressure. U2 launcher is invincible to air attacks but loses to ground. U3 is invincible to ground but vulnerable to air.
It's a guess game and noone is gonna punish consistently unless the opponent is predictable.
Flawless block is a great idea but I'd rather it not go into combo but instead stop the pressure. I'll let it ride and see what I can do with it in practice before asking for change though. Just like armor in mkx they are turning def into offensive tools.
 

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
He gets like 9-10% off either on hit.

The punish on block for either could be up to 35%.
So I say go right on ahead lol. I like my odds.
I'd be more afraid of Liu Kang with his plethora of mix-ups into corner carry and one being a 50%.
 
everytime i go online in injustice . people just back dash or do walk back all the fight
I came across that a few times with the MK11 beta, and seems to have been the goto for quite a few MKX Scorpions i've played as well - so not just Injustice. Seems to be a playstyle of the player as much as the game allowing it. Stay back wait for an opening and teleport into blender/keep throwing out projectiles. And because i'm very impatient i tend to run in/throw specials out so get caught 8/10 times.

Hopefully MK11 will teach me a little more patience. One thing that i noticed is when i'm playing against someone that I lose a lot to, if I think more about what i'm doing I tend to win more. So patience is key.
 
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aj1701

Noob
Your description reminds me a lot about how I felt about MK2, and MK9 really. Its a chess game, where playing intelligently is the deciding factor.

But you're going about things the wrong way. You're supposed to watch your matches, see what the opponent did, and then say they only won because they are using cheap moves that take no skill, or just spamming. And let them know post match with angry messages so they will understand they aren't playing the game right.
 

Obly

Ambiguous world creator
But you're going about things the wrong way. You're supposed to watch your matches, see what the opponent did, and then say they only won because they are using cheap moves that take no skill, or just spamming. And let them know post match with angry messages so they will understand they aren't playing the game right.
Heh--funny, but soooo many scrublords actually think this way. I really want to play around with Cetrion, but I'm also dreading how many times some knuckle-dragging mouth breather is going to stop playing in order to whine and hurl slurs at me for not playing a fighting game the "right" way.

It will happen. It's just a matter of deciding how much of it I'm willing to put up with to play as her. :oops:
 
I was beast in Mk9 I had some of the fastest fingers in MK9 not that online meant anything I was 5th in world with dash block combos Jax and Nightwolf I could pressure so much and game felt way different.I loved MK9.MKX my skills faltured with running buttons no dash block wake up system different way more neutral game wait on a opponet to get up to do string.I just realized in MK9 I could go postal mash out buttons so quick opponet had no time to react.
Well I sucked at MKX Im getting better at MKX and with MK11 I well have to really ajust my play style zone footies and study study study the movement feels a little better on MK11 than MKx.I looking foward to MK11.I feel your pain and know exacting what you mean patient players will come out on top in MK11 just like MKx.
 

stokedAF

casual kahnage
Yeah, it was much more manageable for me. I was never really good with the running mechanic in mkx so I got smoked online and it pushed me away from it.

I did okay in the stress test and I had a lot of fun. I got destroyed in the corner a few times but it was my own fault and I realized what I did. Mk11 was really fun, probably the most fun I have ever had in an mk game without nostalgia goggles. I can’t wait.
 

Kenshi-Keanu-Kool

D1 mashing is the tactic when skill fails !
I came across that a few times with the MK11 beta, and seems to have been the goto for quite a few MKX Scorpions i've played as well - so not just Injustice. Seems to be a playstyle of the player as much as the game allowing it. Stay back wait for an opening and teleport into blender/keep throwing out projectiles. And because i'm very impatient i tend to run in/throw specials out so get caught 8/10 times.

Hopefully MK11 will teach me a little more patience. One thing that i noticed is when i'm playing against someone that I lose a lot to, if I think more about what i'm doing I tend to win more. So patience is key.
i agree . but that is the problem . losing because the other guy is more patient doesnt mean the game is played more intelligently or the other guy is more skillful than you .
 

Obly

Ambiguous world creator
I'd rather they bend the characters and leave the fundies how they are. But I agree
Yep. And I think they're doing that. All I meant was, fundies aren't just game skills to learn; they're also like natural laws you have to obey.

Like, faster characters always have some natural advantage over slower characters. It's just easier for them to link moves, create pressure and mix-ups, and confuse the opponent. NRS is doing a pretty good job making the game more about patient, strategic play in the neutral; I was just saying, there's only so much they can do to balance out the natural advantage that speedier characters have.

Although, for a start, they don't have to give those characters fast full-screen fireballs, fast full-screen super jumps, fast teleports that mix you... not sure what the heck they're thinking... :confused:
 

DDustiNN

MK11 Pocket Guide: Koming Soon to the App Store
I was rewatching some of the matches I lost and I just understood what MK11 was about gameplay wise and why I lost the matches that I lost. It's about being patient, playing defensively and punishing. The one thing I was never really good, or the type of tactics I never use because my mind works this way: they're not blocking? PUMMEL THEM. They're blocking? PUMMEL THEM. They're hitting me? PUMMEL THEM. I'm a very offensive player.

That's why the emphasis isn't on long juggles like it was in MKX, MK11 is not an offensive game. That's why most of the character's combos and specials are unsafe, the game wants you to punish and punish BIG. Remember when there was a big debate on which game should you play to prepare for MK11? Here's the answer: the game of patience friends.

Take Kabal for example, his KB on Hook Slam (db4) leads to major damage and the requirement is that you need to use it raw, not in a combo, on Kounter or Punish. So literally ALL you have to do is be patient and wait for the opponent to throw something unsafe, and BAM you get yourself a 35-50% combo punish. This is not helping me be less hyped about the game, do you have ANY idea how excruciating this is going to be until the second I can finally get my hands on Cassie? I'm dying inside, which is ironic since the whole point of this post is to be more patient.

If anyone wants to improve and isn't looking at the game footage from their losses, get on that now. This has been a PSA.
I noticed this too as I was playing against good opponents. Whenever I’d start losing real bad, it was because I was trying to rush them down and keep pressure on. Once I’d finally realize that, and hang back toward neutral and force them to come in, I was able to play much better. Had to actually make reads and trades, playing heavy footsies. And it actually ended up being a much more fun game because of this.

This is exactly the reason I wish they didn’t cave and increase the dash speeds. Beta pace was fantastic.
 

MalevolentFix

haha shokan queen go down up
I noticed this too as I was playing against good opponents. Whenever I’d start losing real bad, it was because I was trying to rush them down and keep pressure on. Once I’d finally realize that, and hang back toward neutral and force them to come in, I was able to play much better. Had to actually make reads and trades, playing heavy footsies. And it actually ended up being a much more fun game because of this.

This is exactly the reason I wish they didn’t cave and increase the dash speeds. Beta pace was fantastic.
Dash speed will only make things more fun. It's messed up when your dash is slower than walking. Like, that makes no sense.
 

Vslayer

Juiced Moose On The Loose
Lead Moderator
I noticed this too as I was playing against good opponents. Whenever I’d start losing real bad, it was because I was trying to rush them down and keep pressure on. Once I’d finally realize that, and hang back toward neutral and force them to come in, I was able to play much better. Had to actually make reads and trades, playing heavy footsies. And it actually ended up being a much more fun game because of this.

This is exactly the reason I wish they didn’t cave and increase the dash speeds. Beta pace was fantastic.
Dash speed will only make things more fun. It's messed up when your dash is slower than walking. Like, that makes no sense.
I don't know how I feel about the dash speeds, I never even used them while playing so I guess we'll see once the game is out. I can't wait to see if I'll use it or not.
 

DDustiNN

MK11 Pocket Guide: Koming Soon to the App Store
Dash speed will only make things more fun. It's messed up when your dash is slower than walking. Like, that makes no sense.
I hope so! But I actually really liked the walk speed and non-existent dashing. Walking felt much more natural and menacing, not to mention more precise. Dashing back and forth always just looks and feels kinda goofy to me.