MK11 Johnny Cage General Discussion

[Tundra81]

6 Brutalities....

 

[kevkopdx]

I find it mindblasting that after all that hard work getting b2 after ex np midscreen and aligning planets and inputs, his highest bnb is just dash up 121 WTF.


Also, I'll ask this as many times as it takes until it gets fixed:
WHY IS 121 dialed fast NOT SPECIAL CANCELABLE and 121 inputed like street fighter is?????????????????????????????????

Ya that 121 special cancel... it’s obnoxious.. kept asking myself what I was doing wrong lol

 

[Wrath0594]

I find it mindblasting that after all that hard work getting b2 after ex np midscreen and aligning planets and inputs, his highest bnb is just dash up 121 WTF.


Also, I'll ask this as many times as it takes until it gets fixed:
WHY IS 121 dialed fast NOT SPECIAL CANCELABLE and 121 inputed like street fighter is?????????????????????????????????

I think the b2 link isn’t too bad, but I played Kenjutsu Kenshi PREPATCH in MkX, so maybe I’m biased. XD

If you can’t get it consistent, just use standing 2 instead, you only lose about 5 dmg. Worth it for consistency sake.

I haven’t tried ending in flippy kick. My 2 BnB’s are whatever into nutpunch amp, dash cancel 121 xx brass knuckles. Or nutpunch amp, dash cancel 2, f44 into oki. If they do nothing or delayed wakeup, I contest with b3,4 into nothing, amp forceballs, or caged rage. If they startup wakeup attacking or rolling, we play rock paper scissors with my jump ins or throws and I go from there.

If yall wna end in nutpunch, don’t forget you have some options. Mainly throw, and d3 either cancelled into specials or not. I’m converting to Skarletology till the buffs roll in, but as a Cage secondary I’m in this with yall. Hope everyone tries some other characters, at least to get some perspective on where our boy stands.
(-:>

 

[kelevra]

Went over his FBC a little and f4 FBC has to be at least +7 on block because it jails into 121. Haven't gotten it to jail into 244 yet but might be possible.

Oh and about the whole buffs needed thing: Look at his toolset, he has incredible footsie options including a long range hit confirmable low starter. I'm not even gonna pop off on how godlike his low pokes are. If he had jaquis close range tools he'd be a broken mess. The one thing I agree on are his crushing blows (which are ass) and low profiling issues.

 

[Tundra81]

WTF are these Brutalities and how come I don't have them unlocked!!!!

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1121785732744536064

 

[Rodney Quillz]

Went over his FBC a little and f4 FBC has to be at least +7 on block because it jails into 121. Haven't gotten it to jail into 244 yet but might be possible.

Oh and about the whole buffs needed thing: Look at his toolset, he has incredible footsie options including a long range hit confirmable low starter. I'm not even gonna pop off on how godlike his low pokes are. If he had jaquis close range tools he'd be a broken mess. The one thing I agree on are his crushing blows (which are ass) and low profiling issues.

I don’t man the only variation special I use is mime time, I don’t know about caged rage but I think fist bump could start up a little faster, even if it were to cost meter.

 

[Cobainevermind87]

6 Brutalities....

Whoa whoa whoa whoa. So this means that a LOT of brutalities in the game won't even be seen in kompetitive play then?

 

[Wrath0594]

Went over his FBC a little and f4 FBC has to be at least +7 on block because it jails into 121. Haven't gotten it to jail into 244 yet but might be possible.

Oh and about the whole buffs needed thing: Look at his toolset, he has incredible footsie options including a long range hit confirmable low starter. I'm not even gonna pop off on how godlike his low pokes are. If he had jaquis close range tools he'd be a broken mess. The one thing I agree on are his crushing blows (which are ass) and low profiling issues.

The thing is no one is asking for anything crazy when they mention buffs. No one has suggested anything out of line- a lot of it has been calls to fix the hitboxes and krushing blows.

The other part of it is you have to compare him to other characters if you’re going to argue he’s good. I keep seeing “amazing footsies” without anything to back it. What’s amazing? F3? Sure, if it wasn’t high. F4? Sure, if it didn’t get stuffed due to the startup and stubby hitbox.

For example, Cassie has a 9 frame mid that reaches as far as f4, is just as safe, and confirms into a full combo on hit.

Whose footsies are you comparing his to? Shao Kahn’s? Skarlett’s? Frosts? Scorpion? The list goes on, but the fact is that a lot of characters have straigt better versions of Johnny’s tools.

His 18frame low starter isn’t exactly scary when there’s no reason for them to get hit by it. Another example of a move that isn’t bad in a vaccuum- but as soon as we look at the entire roster, you see it’s weaknesses.

Tldr; no one wants him god tier. Buff requests have mostly been bugfixes or minimal things.

 

[lionheart21]

Went over his FBC a little and f4 FBC has to be at least +7 on block because it jails into 121. Haven't gotten it to jail into 244 yet but might be possible.

Oh and about the whole buffs needed thing: Look at his toolset, he has incredible footsie options including a long range hit confirmable low starter. I'm not even gonna pop off on how godlike his low pokes are. If he had jaquis close range tools he'd be a broken mess. The one thing I agree on are his crushing blows (which are ass) and low profiling issues.

Pretty much, yeah. When it comes to pressure, he's a shell of his previous versions, but as a whiff punish and footsies character, he is very good. The lack of an overhead outside of the universal short hop overhead is an issue, yes, but one that can be worked around. If he had access to Rising Star in one of his tournament variations, he'd be fine to me since he'd have access to another overhead there when meter-burned. Pissed Off would be great as well for a good solid corner combo ender, but I'll take what I can get.

 

[Wrath0594]

Pretty much, yeah. When it comes to pressure, he's a shell of his previous versions, but as a whiff punish and footsies character, he is very good. The lack of an overhead outside of the universal short hop overhead is an issue, yes, but one that can be worked around. If he had access to Rising Star in one of his tournament variations, he'd be fine to me since he'd have access to another overhead there when meter-burned. Pissed Off would be great as well for a good solid corner combo ender, but I'll take what I can get.

My issue is so far is the discussion has been:

Page of facts vs I feel like he’s good.

I argued against any Johnny buffs in MkX. Here maybe we should take a page from Kitana/Kenshi mains- argue for buffs so unreasonable NRs meets us halfway. Maybe if we put out demands so out there, they’ll go, eh, we’ll fix the forceballs. We’ll make f4 12 frame. We’ll give you a krushing blow, just 1.

Also again- what are we comparing his footsies to? Shao Kahn f2? Skarlet b4, f2, s3? Cassie b2? I need to see this good footsies argument substantiated. It’s like people don’t believe I’ve touched Johnny, I have. Wondering if the JC mains are trying anyone else. Like, he isn’t the worst, that title goes to Jade easily, but he’s bottom half, arguably bottom 25%.

 

[M.D.]

Don't forget Jacqui dash punch is identical to shadow kick ONLY SAFE ON BLOCK.

The actual issue is CLUELESS people coming in this 14 page thread not reading any of it and posting

"HAHAH DOWNPLAY CAGE ROFL ROFL WATCH KILLERWHATEVERTOURNAMENT AHAHA" and then leave.

These kind of twats got cage nerfed in the crapper back in mkx, can't stand them.

 

[JohnnyGotCaged]

I think Johnny lacks on a lot right now, personally. I have issues just punishing things at times, but probably because I'm using F4 to punish things, not 1, or 2 into something else. His tournament variations make not too much of a difference.

Everyone I go against kinda just blocks low, and that's about it, a lot of characters have this issue, and here goes the meta, lol

 

[Rip Torn]

Don't forget Jacqui dash punch is identical to shadow kick ONLY SAFE ON BLOCK.

The actual issue is CLUELESS people coming in this 14 page thread not reading any of it and posting

"HAHAH DOWNPLAY CAGE ROFL ROFL WATCH KILLERWHATEVERTOURNAMENT AHAHA" and then leave.

These kind of twats got cage nerfed in the crapper back in mkx, can't stand them.

Maybe people just want to discuss Cage and not complain/demand buffs? Especially since the game isn't even a week old.

You're basically shutting down the discussion because you think you have the whole character figured out and how he works within a 50 character meta in 4 days.

 

[M.D.]

Well that's what everyone here was doing, discussing Cage and seeing how his tools are trash compared to identical ones to other characters.

Only ones wanting to shut down the discussion are clueless kids that come in here and LOLOLOLOOLOCAGETOPTIERWATCHSONICFOX

 

[Derocus]

6 Brutalities....

Johnny's brutality win pose takes fucking ages. That figurine must have real stiff joints. I bet it gets 1 star reviews on amazon.

Also, are these brutalities doable without having them 'unlocked' like the fatalities?

 

[M.D.]

Nope, you have to have them unlocked.

Just unlocked 3rd cage tower.
Requirement: do 100 krushing blows with Cage.

REALLY NRS? REALLY?

 

[MagicMan357]

Wtf is the point of the camera or the shades? LMAO

 

[Wrath0594]

Maybe people just want to discuss Cage and not complain/demand buffs? Especially since the game isn't even a week old.

You're basically shutting down the discussion because you think you have the whole character figured out and how he works within a 50 character meta in 4 days.

You’re acting like it’s super deep. When we compare characters it’s what, 15 key moves each? It’s not rocket science. And what I’m calling attention to is the difference between people backing opinion with facts and those who aren’t. If you want to argue he’s good, by all means- please do. Everyone here would love more tech and strats. It’s not as if we don’t want to hear strengths. Just be specific. Sick of seeing “he gud” or “too soon” or “stronk footsies” after providing multiple pages of frame data comparisons and flaws.

And what if i said to you “it’s day 4, it’s too soon to say Johnny is viable. It’s too soon to say he isn’t trash.” You’d have nothing to work with. There’s no discussion there.

Simply saying “hes good” or “he’s bad” helps no one. Can we all agree on that? Let’s emphasize the discussion aspect.

 

[Name v.5.0]

So Caged Rage level resets if you whiff it. That's REALLY fucking stupid. NRS, you NEED to fix that. It takes real work to actually get to level 3 with this iffy special. There is zero reason you should lose it on whiff.

 

[$500 Shoes & Shades]

6 Brutalities....

Man no nut punch brutality. How disappointing, the one in MKX where their eyes popped out was great.

 

[Rip Torn]

You’re acting like it’s super deep. When we compare characters it’s what, 15 key moves each? It’s not rocket science. And what I’m calling attention to is the difference between people backing opinion with facts and those who aren’t. If you want to argue he’s good, by all means- please do. Everyone here would love more tech and strats. It’s not as if we don’t want to hear strengths. Just be specific. Sick of seeing “he gud” or “too soon” or “stronk footsies” after providing multiple pages of frame data comparisons and flaws.

And what if i said to you “it’s day 4, it’s too soon to say Johnny is viable. It’s too soon to say he isn’t trash.” You’d have nothing to work with. There’s no discussion there.

Simply saying “hes good” or “he’s bad” helps no one. Can we all agree on that? Let’s emphasize the discussion aspect.

I agree, let's discuss the character.

 

[Name v.5.0]

What are you guys trip guarding with? B3 fucking sucks, F4 gets stuffed.

 

[Chad Ironchest]

Cage still feels workable. I think for now he just needs some QOL changes like everyone else was saying, and a 2nd variation that isn't shit. But yeah opening up crouch blockers is difficult once they start reading grabs. Then you're kinda left with a game of baiting whiffs. I still think he needs time before anything major happens

 

[lionheart21]

His Krushing Blows are...lacking, to say the least. Would be nice if Mime Time could also parry jump-in attacks, although it might be possible to use it meterburned on an empty jump-in (a favorite of mine in MK9 with his X-Ray parry).

 

[Derocus]

Cage still feels workable. I think for now he just needs some QOL changes like everyone else was saying, and a 2nd variation that isn't shit. But yeah opening up crouch blockers is difficult once they start reading grabs. Then you're kinda left with a game of baiting whiffs. I still think he needs time before anything major happens

Problem is, when I back off to attempt to bait a whiff, most characters have better range than Johnny. So I'll backdash after a f344 or b34 and get slapped for it.
This IS still the best way to open people up though, don't get me wrong. If you get read though, big ouch.

Also, I've been doing this stupid gimmick with fucking with the turn-timings. Like, I'll block a string, they expect me to start swinging at them, so they start blocking. But if you wait a fffffrickin' microsecond longer, your opponent will more than likely be all like "oh, he's not attacking, guess I'll swing" and boom. You're getting them with a counter-hit. Mind games, boys. Mind games.