MK11 competitive gameplay perspective (early impressions like, but with speculations)

Discussion in 'Mortal Kombat 11' started by Eddy Wang, Feb 8, 2019.

  1. Eddy Wang

    Eddy Wang Skarlet scientist

    Since some TYM new comers are on a horde of know it alls, and making suggestions for improvements and what not this earlier, even without having a previous contact with the game, i though maybe its time to put all my thoughs in display and see if maybe i'm on sync with most or if i'm just generating another popcorn thread.

    1. First of all i want you guys to know that i had no previous contact with the game, everything posted here is based on watching solely footage of people who played and in some cases puting a 2 by 2 math like speculations to forsee some outcomes, there fo, this is also a daily reminder that the game its on its alpha/Beta state, nothing its final and even if there is no point in going in super detail we can still talk about the game and share some thoughs on the matter.

    2. The most inconsistent factor in the game currently for me is the variations system, since there isn't base variations yet, this is by far the factor which i will leave out of my speculations, due the fact that the future of the game will be heavily affected by having base variations or having to build your variations on your own competitive wise.

    3. MK 11 suffered a drastic change from past interactions, there is a lot of new features, the game itself and its goals have been completely redesigned, either this is a good thing or a bad thing, that's something we will decide post release.

    The meter system.
    * By far probably the most changed feature, now with 4 bars, 2 deffensive, and 2 offensive, decisions made in the game are affected by it, according to past interviews with NRS devs, the stronger a move is the longer the meter takes to refill.

    Different from predecessors games, by having a meter independent on its own, allows both players to play independently, so there is no gain on forcing a first hit bonus, such as powerful keep away characters with very strong space control will no longer dictate pace of the match while building meter.

    One can still enforce as many mixups/pressure/zoning they want but the one defending its no longer heavily dependent on player one having meter or not to break and giving room to breathe, go back up and much more.

    The meter has defensive/offense options such as flawless block attacks, a moves which are executed with U2 or U3 after flawlessly blocking a move, doing FLBAttacks costs one bar of each offence and defense to execute, so your reversal punish per say comes at cost of losing each.

    U2 and U3 are also wakeup options both costs one bar of each.
    Wakeup rolls are strike invincible, but are vulnerable to throws, you can still delay wakeup.

    There has been a major concern over break away recovering faster, but today it just occurred to me that Breaking aways from combo might not be the smartest move in the future and here is why:
    a) Opponents who break away from combos, will lose both their defense bar, and the instant this occurs this persons sacrifices escaping damage but in return none of his strongest wakeup options will become available until both bars returns, so the one who forces a break away might have a stronger Edge close or similar to MKX type of okizeme offense post knockdown, yeah, remember P2 has no defensive meter, so he can't wakeup attack or tech roll, he can only delay wakeup or stand.

    Flawless block its probably the mechanic which will take a while to master but if done correctly, it might turn some tides heavily, in the current build there is no data of the flawless block effects, yet there has been some strong speculations that if you block anything means you can also flawless block it, so Fatal Blows watch out, same as jump attacks, and strings with gaps projectiles and even wakeups.

    Its uncertain if Flawless Block can be activated from crouch blocking.

    Flawless block reduces the time the defender stays in blockstun, which in consequence also reduces the time the defender stays in pushback

    Watched some people complaining about movement, i dunno how fast walks are in MK11, but i've seen Skarlet walkspeed and easily chilled (because i will main her) her walkspeed seemed decent enough

    In general, i don't think the game is bad, just different, the most crucial thing in the game in my humble opinion its meter management, because now they're independent and some of the most strongest features in the game are associated with it.

    Krushing Blows are a different story one which i preffer to leave out of this conversation for now until i know more.

    Some characters do have strong ranges, strong projectiles and some of them have strings with built in 50-50s. I would be totally worried if this was MKX, but MK11 has training mode with slots, unless NRS makes the mixup from the overhead as equal speed as the low one, there isn't really nothing to fear because we will know which to block first, game has no delays as well while perfoming strings, this helps.

    Jump attacks feel floatier, if its easier to anti-air or not we will see on games release

    Attacks don't have crazy active frames and super duper startups this early, a step in the right direction, punishing window was also increased for every move (that's to dizzy's insight on this)

    Heavily curious to see how Liu Kang and Kung Lao play.
  2. villainous monk

    villainous monk Break bread over a whiskey n rocks. Like a man.

    Beautiful post. Truly.

    This is pretty much what I believe how the game is currently with out our hands on it yet.

    I've been wondering most about flawless blocking though.

    Do you think you can FB jump in's?

    I can't quite remember if you could do pushblock in inj2 on njp's & njk's and you had to be standing I believe. Why I say inj2 is FB seems similar in ways.

    If this could be the case like we're speculating then if some characters have a weaker AA to combat jump in's then this would be amazing and just another additional bonus to making mk11 seem more honest then previous games.

    Also with the current build I like to add the game seems honest. Fair and we'll thought out.

    The meter overhaul was a great idea. It looks like it works very well with amplified specials, defense mechanics which you for once force's both players to think during the match. You truly have to respect the next player with the options given.

    I was unaware of stronger moves required more time to refill the meter gage and I absolutely look forward to to testing that out in the lab. Comparing 3 slot specials to 1 slot specials with the timer during the trailer does not do it justice.

    Regardless it's an excellent idea to use this form of meter management now then the previous way we played it in so many games.

    My only concern thus far it's small is when you use break away it's costs both bars and looks like it takes forever to bulid back up. I know NRS might change this pre or post release but 2 bars see excessive. Especially since offense has always been very strong in NRS games.

    Not making suggestions on it but what do you think?
    Kroaken likes this.
  3. Kroaken

    Kroaken Life is a block string with no gaps.

    Yeah, they mentioned (I can't remember where, now) how different moves would result in different meter recharge rates.
    villainous monk likes this.
  4. Eddy Wang

    Eddy Wang Skarlet scientist

    In the presentantion demo by Ed Boon, Sonya Flawless Blocks Skarlet jump in and launch with U3.
    I think, anything you are able to block you will be able to flawless block it, in game there is even a frame data for every move with flawless block proprieties, but they left it out of the build.

    I think the break away has reasonable recovery, not too long and not too greater either, considering you lose all your defensive options and you can only flawless block, i think its balanced.
    villainous monk and Kroaken like this.
  5. Eldriken

    Eldriken A few pints of blood is all I ask.
    Forum General

    Watch the Geras breakdown Ketchup and Mustard do. They have him use his time reversal move which takes both defensive bars and it recovers slooooow.

    Amazing idea on NRS' end, in my opinion. What a way to balance it.
  6. Kroaken

    Kroaken Life is a block string with no gaps.

    Yeah it allows them very precise control over balancing individual moves.
    Eldriken and Eddy Wang like this.
  7. Eddy Wang

    Eddy Wang Skarlet scientist

    If you think about it
    Mk9 fighting through Kabal's gas blasts was a nightmare and it was even worse because of rooftp daylight stage which was so long and he could literally outrun almost everyone.

    In MKX, while Quan was the main culprit of this same issue, in the end of the game Kitana becomes absolutely stupid to deal with, and its just as bad as Kabal, with that damage boost, air combo conversion, a parry, and her X-Ray was an overhead.

    In both games you have to chase those 3 down, while they build meter at will, you have to be extra careful to not get hit by it or not only you will lose yours, but you would have to do everything all over again, either you make it or not (because they can break, kill your stamina and continuing doing whatever.)

    Now they still get to do this, but the player trying to get in also has to be respected, breaking away might save damage but then one becomes weaker.

    So break away affects no other than the player breaking away from combos, the risk reward is, escape damage now but you will have no flawless block attacks or wakeups.
  8. igotAhalo

    igotAhalo Premium Supporter
    Premium Supporter

    Over the last few weeks since the gameplay reveal, I've learned to simply stay positive about everything (from a few of the cool posters here on TYM). At first I was a little shocked, I immediately seen some stuff I loved, but I also immediately seen some stuff that seemed alarming (some "injustice" looking stuff). I love MKX, especially the aggressiveness to it, but when I think about it there was a ton of dirt mkx had, that still bugs me today.

    So basically I'm just going to stay positive until I ACTUALLY play the game. Once I can play it for a while, if I still have some criticisms then so be it.

    So far I love the meter management, now I wont feel like I have to get the first hit in every match. Flawless block seems like its going to create an honest skill gap, and as you have all said they seemed to remove a ton of thr dirt that made MKX ( I mean the game came out with armored launchers lol, funny how I used to wake up with scorps teleport)
  9. Lex Luthor II

    Lex Luthor II Lord of Lightning

    The new meter system is totally a game changer for me. Takes away the dumb mechanic rewarding zoning and keep away. And i am one who took full advantage of that in the last couple games.
  10. villainous monk

    villainous monk Break bread over a whiskey n rocks. Like a man.

    So I wonder and this is was why I was asking myself and you as well as anyone else. Is this fair?

    FB cost one bar of offense and defense. Breakaway costs 2 full bars. Risk/reward is huge. Man. It is balanced. I say so right now considering this current bulid but...

    I'm a huge sports fan I believe defense wins games. Understandably considering the last 5 NRS games where offense played such a bigger role. I can't believe how much effort and thought went into this.

    Is it bad to feel sceptical how this seems to work. I'm glad has you know it's just.. It took over a decade to really address defense in NRS games.
  11. Eddy Wang

    Eddy Wang Skarlet scientist

    FB doesn't cost meter, but amplifying after a successful one does. So with no defensive bar you can Still flawless block anymore, but you can't U3 or U2 right after, because those 2 attacks are the ones that consume meter.
    villainous monk likes this.
  12. villainous monk

    villainous monk Break bread over a whiskey n rocks. Like a man.

    Yep that's right. Thanks.

    Honestly can't wait to lab this out. Pretty nice they did the wake up like that. I'm becoming more of a fan of it.

    Besides that do you think they would really allow you to FB from crouching? I think that would be a stretch but really surprising if it was possible.
  13. Eddy Wang

    Eddy Wang Skarlet scientist

    Something to test on release, i even got a list for those things.

    Day 1 work out.
    1. Try main character and see the possibilities
    2. Explore Training mode, record/playback slots

    Flawless block tests

    3. Check if its possible Flawless Block while crouching
    4. Flawless block Wakeups
    5. Flawless Block Fatal Blows
    6. Flawless Block Strings
    7. Train various timings on things i should look out for to flawless block

    Later on same day
    8. Wreck people online
    9. Finish Story mode.
    SaltShaker and villainous monk like this.
  14. villainous monk

    villainous monk Break bread over a whiskey n rocks. Like a man.

    Oh yeah. Pretty much the same. Copy paste for sure.

    I really interested in testing out the KB's and which ones to use first or save whichever one for the final round. All the requirements & ect. That's got me stoked as this is really out side the box.

    Also the new input delays which I Am SUPER happy about. Fiddling around with the input short cuts and all the other input selections is absolutely key. I really want to know if this has addressed or fixed the issues that has plagued MK & Injustice for years.

    Njp's and njk's too. Also all the floaty looking jumps and walk speeds as well. Seems walking is the go too way to get in or through the various ranges of normals and specials. I still think dashing might play a role to maybe extend a juggle into an ender or KB.

    Oh man. I can't wait to lab.
    ChatterBox and Eddy Wang like this.
  15. Eddy Wang

    Eddy Wang Skarlet scientist

    It will highly depend on characters for sure, but knowing uppercut will KB on KH and some throws will KB if teched is attemped and its teched wrong, i know for sure those 2 are the first ones i will start the game with Skarlet.

    Her Cell Siphon its +5 on restand the amplified version its +7, even if it doesn't allows her to 124 because first hit is a high i might actually fish poking and KH with D2 since its safe on block.
    villainous monk likes this.
  16. Badboy Takuma

    Badboy Takuma Elder God

    Eddy Wang likes this.
  17. villainous monk

    villainous monk Break bread over a whiskey n rocks. Like a man.

    +5! And +7:eek: The damage would be so much with the KB added on. You know about those day 1 release frame data. That's shits gonna change.

    Baraka had some questionable frames as well with his F212 string being +6. Man. I was licking my chops think just how much I'm going to abuse that like I'm Ike Turner to Tina.
    Eddy Wang likes this.
  18. Eddy Wang

    Eddy Wang Skarlet scientist

    will see by how far, fastest move in the game so far starts at 7f, so its not so crazy to have plus frame at those ranges.
    villainous monk likes this.
  19. villainous monk

    villainous monk Break bread over a whiskey n rocks. Like a man.

    Considering the pace of the movement we've seen so far I think that should be the total limit. Baraka's FB (we need new acronym for fatal blow & flawless blocking perfect guard maybe?) is not listed on the fatal gaming frame list so I can't tell if it's also at 7f. It did look very quick but I'm guessing 6f as well as kabal's too.
  20. Ger187

    Ger187 Noob

    In corner? :DOGE

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