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Guide Maximum Damage Punishment Thread

BillStickers

BillStickers

Do not touch me again.
This thread has two purposes:
  1. To be a quick reference for punishing various moves by the MK9 cast.
  2. To figure out the absolute best combos to use (damage output-wise) when punishing. I want to include options for no meter, 1, 2, and 3 bars.
There have been a few tweaks to damage scaling over the various patches, so some of the older combos aren't as effective. I'm going into this thread with the mindset that every extra bit of damage counts.

Note: I haven't decided the best way to organize this yet-- it could either be really redundant or grouped into sections based on character and/or the nature of the move on whiff or block. For now, I'm going to try to group it by frame data and see how that goes.

Please comment with your latest findings! I'll be adding to this top post as needed.

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On Block
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-50 on block, opponent standing
  • Kitana: Upraise (-50), EX Upraise (-50)
Meterless: f2 1, NJP, 4~fan, 4~lift, dash, b2~fan, fan, 4~cutter (45%)
1 Bar: f4 1~EX fan, JIP f2 1, NJP, 4~fan, 4~lift, dash, b2~fan, fan, 4~cutter (49%)
2 Bars: f4 1~EX fan, JIP f4 1~EX fan, JIP f2 1, NJP, 4~fan, 4~lift, dash, b2~fan, fan, 4~cutter (53%)
3 Bars: f4 1~EX fan, JIP f4 1~EX fan, JIP f4 1~EX fan, JIP f2 1, NJP, 4~fan, 4~lift, dash, b2~fan, fan, 4~cutter (55%)

-45 – -46 on block, opponent in air
  • Mileena: Ball Roll (-46), EX Ball Roll (-45)
Meterless: b2~fan, fan, 4~fan, 2~cutter (39%)

-36 – -45 on block, opponent in air
  • Ermac: Teleport (-43)
  • Kung Lao: Dive Kick (-37), EX Dive Kick (high) (-37)
  • Scorpion: Teleport (-43)
  • Sektor: Teleport Uppercut (-45)
  • Quan Chi: Sky Drop (-36), EX Sky Drop (-36)
Meterless: f2 1, NJP, 4~fan, 4~lift, dash, b2~fan, fan, 4~cutter (45%)
1 Bar: f4 1~EX fan, JIP f2 1, NJP, 4~fan, 4~lift, dash, b2~fan, fan, 4~cutter (49%)
2 Bars: f4 1~EX fan, JIP f4 1~EX fan, JIP f2 1, NJP, 4~fan, 4~lift, dash, b2~fan, fan, 4~cutter (53%)
3 Bars: f4 1~EX fan, JIP f4 1~EX fan, JIP f4 1~EX fan, JIP f2 1, NJP, 4~fan, 4~lift, dash, b2~fan, fan, 4~cutter (55%)

-20 – -23 on block, opponent high in air
  • Mileena: Teleport Drop (~-23), Teleport Drop w/ Sai (~-20)
Meterless: b2~fan, 4~fan, 2~fan, f2~cutter (42%)

-12 – -14 on block, opponent low in air
  • Mileena: EX Teleport Drop (~-12), EX Teleport Drop w/ Sai (second teleport crouch blocked) (-~14)
Meterless:d1~cutter (9%)
1 Bar: d1~EX lift, dash x 2, b2~fan, fan, 2~fan, f2~cutter (29%)

-12 – -17 on block, close range
  • Ermac: Force Push (-17)
  • Kano: Upball (-13)
  • Kenshi: Rising Karma (-13) (dash after blocking)
  • Kung Lao: Low Hat (-12)
  • Reptile: Elbow Dash (-13), X-Ray (-12)
Meterless: 2 1~lift, dashblock x 2, NJP, b2~fan, fan, 2~fan, 2~cutter (37%)
1 Bar: 2 1~EX fan, JIP f2 1, NJP, 4~fan, 4~lift, dash, b2~fan, fan, 4~cutter (48%)
2 Bars: 2 1~EX fan, JIP f4 1~EX fan, JIP f2 1, NJP, 4~fan, 4~lift, dash, b2~fan, fan, 4~cutter (52%)
3 Bars: 2 1~EX fan, JIP f4 1~EX fan, JIP f4 1~EX fan, JIP f2 1, NJP, 4~fan, 4~lift, dash, b2~fan, fan, 4~cutter (54%)

-11 on block, close range
Note: Keep in mind that if your opponent is player 1, moves that are -11 on block are essentially -10.
  • Reptile: Acid Spit (-11), Force Ball (-11)
Meterless: Throw (12%)
Meterless: d1~cutter (~5% on blocked cutter, 9% if cutter not blocked)

------------------------------------------------
On Whiff
------------------------------------------------
Note: If I'm reading the frame data correctly, then I believe that, if an attack whiffs, the attacking player is at disadvantage for the entire duration of the move. If this isn't true, please let me know.


-22 on whiff, close (Kitana must be ducking)
  • Scorpion: EX Teleport (-22) (punish after first punch)
Meterless: d1~cutter (9%)
1 Bar: d1~EX lift, dash x 2, b2~fan, fan, 2~fan, f2~cutter (29%)

-37 – -44 on whiff, close (Kitana must be ducking)
  • Jax: Dash Punch (-37)
  • Kitana: Cutting Fan (-44)
  • Nightwolf: Shoulder (-40)
Meterless: 2 1~lift, dashblock x 2, NJP, b2~fan, fan, 2~fan, 2~cutter (37%)
1 Bar: 2 1~EX fan, JIP f2 1, NJP, 4~fan, 4~lift, dash, b2~fan, fan, 4~cutter (48%)
2 Bars: 2 1~EX fan, JIP f4 1~EX fan, JIP f2 1, NJP, 4~fan, 4~lift, dash, b2~fan, fan, 4~cutter (52%)
3 Bars: 2 1~EX fan, JIP f4 1~EX fan, JIP f4 1~EX fan, JIP f2 1, NJP, 4~fan, 4~lift, dash, b2~fan, fan, 4~cutter (54%)

-58 on whiff, out of range–full screen*
  • Ermac: Force Push (-58)
1 Bar: EX fan (cancel), dashblock (x3-4), f2 1, NJP, 4~fan, 4~lift, dash, b2~fan, fan, 4~cutter (43% ?)
 
B

BoysBoysBoys

Noob
  • Mileena: Teleport Drop (~-23), Teleport Drop w/ Sai (~-20)
  • Kung Lao: Dive Kick (-37), EX Dive Kick (high) (-37)
  • Quan Chi: Sky Drop (-36), EX Sky Drop (-36)
(?) Meterless: 2~fan, 2~lift, dash, NJP, b2~fan, fan, 2~fan, 2~cutter (??)
Click to expand...
Why wouldn't you punish these with a F21? Sans Mileena tele drop and roll of course. ❤
 
Treadmill

Treadmill

Noob
BillStickers said:
F21, in these cases, won't launch the opponent since they're already in the air. Instead, they fly back and hit the ground.
Click to expand...
You can let them hit the ground and they are still stunned long enough for t21. This applies to ever teleport in the game aside from mileena and rain oh and raiden.

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2
 
BillStickers

BillStickers

Do not touch me again.
rev0lver said:
No, you can f21 punish lao divekick and quan skydrop, as well as Scorp/Ermac teleport
Click to expand...
Treadmill said:
You can let them hit the ground and they are still stunned long enough for t21. This applies to ever teleport in the game aside from mileena and rain oh and raiden.
Click to expand...
Thanks everyone. Does anyone know if Mileena's ball roll is punishable with f2 1 as well? Seems like it should be.
 
xKhaoTik

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
I always punish the ball roll with 4 fan, 4 lift, dashx2, b2 af, fan, 4 cutter.

I can't think of the damage off the top of my head, but I'm sure its around the same. Plus she builds much more meter using this combo


Edit: same thing with mils teleport. I punish with 2 (or 3) fan, 2 lift, dashx2, b2 af, fan, 4 cutter
 
rev0lver

rev0lver

Come On Die Young
xKhaoTikx said:
I always punish the ball roll with 4 fan, 4 lift, dashx2, b2 af, fan, 4 cutter.

I can't think of the damage off the top of my head, but I'm sure its around the same. Plus she builds much more meter using this combo
Click to expand...
It's the same it's just easier to drop, which is why b2 is better IMO just for consistency
 
xKhaoTik

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
Does ex fan toss really punish ermacs tkp from sweep-full screen range? Doesn't ex fan toss start up in 22 frames?

Edit: here's a few combo punishes:

Kung Lao low hat: -12 on block. Punish with 21 fan lift, dash, njp, b2 af, fan, 2 fan, 2 cutter.

Kenshi's Rising Karma: -17 on block. I do a slight dash then punish with the above 21 combo.

Specials that you have to duck to punish ( NW's shoulder charge, kits cutter, Jax's dash punch, etc) should be punished with the 21 fan lift combo.

Also, if you have bar to spend, you can use 21 ex fan toss, then go for the njp f21 combo for 48%
 
BillStickers

BillStickers

Do not touch me again.
xKhaoTikx said:
Does ex fan toss really punish ermacs tkp from sweep-full screen range? Doesn't ex fan toss start up in 22 frames?
Click to expand...
Unconfirmed. I was going by memory from a post by Konqrr in one of the discussion threads. It might be only full screen if the TKP whiffs completely (no block stun). I can try to test this later.
 
rev0lver

rev0lver

Come On Die Young
xKhaoTikx said:
Does ex fan toss really punish ermacs tkp from sweep-full screen range? Doesn't ex fan toss start up in 22 frames?
Click to expand...
It shouldn't. Instant air ex fan is 13 frames. However, you have to factor in the time it takes for it to travel. Unless you're right next to him it shouldn't work.
 
xKhaoTik

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
BillStickers said:
I'll add a general section with info like this, but for now I'm guessing it's something like:
4~lift, iAF, fan, EX fan, fan, EX fan, fan, EX fan, fan, which you could end with 2~cutter for breakable damage.
Click to expand...

4 can't be canceled into specials :(

*as in it wont connect on a standing foe. It has to be during a juggle
 
BillStickers

BillStickers

Do not touch me again.
xKhaoTikx said:
I always punish the ball roll with 4 fan, 4 lift, dashx2, b2 af, fan, 4 cutter.

I can't think of the damage off the top of my head, but I'm sure its around the same. Plus she builds much more meter using this combo


Edit: same thing with mils teleport. I punish with 2 (or 3) fan, 2 lift, dashx2, b2 af, fan, 4 cutter
Click to expand...
Actually, 4~fan 4~lift does more damage than b2~fan (39% vs. 36%). Thank you, I'll update the post.
 
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