Question - Kobu Jutsu Male characters trapped?

[DET_BLAKEANATOR]

So I'm sure someone else out there knows about this but, B1 EX tonfa against male characters has no gaps and can guarantee another B1 EX tonfa into ANOTHER B1 EX tonfa. All guaranteed, and end it with the rekkas, that would be over 22% guaranteed chip damage that builds another bar of meter and then some.

So at any point you let go of block you can eat a combo or just lose about a quarter of your health for blocking.

I thought that the reason for the lao and shinnok nerf were to remove the "guaranteed" pressure from the game. Especially from anywhere on the screen.

I just want to get some opinions of this from some people, or even better someone show me that it is not guaranteed against the male characters.

Is it fair? Or is it broken?

 

[Doombawkz]

Memory serving, her b.1 is done with dinosaur arms.

I think its fine.

 

[Rip Torn]

It doesn't jail everyone if they block the first hit of exTonfa while ducking, so you have a few frames to go from stand blocking to crouch blocking between the 2nd hit of b1 and the first hit of exTonfa.

It's fair because it costs meter and doesn't do that much chip. Combined with her teleport cancel, she can put alot of pressure on you but it's not free and it has gaps.

I made this list PRE-PATCH, so I guarantee nothing:

I tested both f2~ex tonfa toss and b1~ex tonfa toss and here are the results concerning the second hit of ex tonfa toss:

(It should jail on everyone not listed)

Shinnok - f2 always whiffs everywhere, b1 whiffs about 75% of the time everywhere.
Kung Lao - f2 and b1 work everywhere.
Sonya - f2 whiffs about 80% of the time midscreen, always in the corner. b1 whiffs 50% of the time midscreen, only whiffs point blank in the corner.
Scorpion - f2 always whiffs, but b1 ex tonfa hits about 75% of the time everywhere.
Sub Zero - both randomly whiff but f2 ex tonfa can always be ducked in the corner while b1 ex tonfa randomly whiffs.
Mileena - both methods randomly whiff about 66% of the time, f2 method always whiffs in the corner.
Cassie - both methods work like 95% of the time!
Jacqui - f2 always hits midscreen but always whiffs in corner, b1 whiffs about 50% of the time anywhere.
Kung Jin - f2 hits about 80% of the time, b1 always works midscreen, about 95% in the corner
Kano - f2 hits about 85% of the time midscreen, always whiffs in the corner, b1 works about 99% of the time midscreen and always works in the corner.
Reptile - f2 whiffs 85% of the time midscreen, always whiffs in the corner. b1 whiffs about 70% of the time everywhere.
D'Vorah - f2 always whiffs everywhere, b1 whiffs about 60% of the time midscreen, always whiffs point blank in the corner, but never whiffs from a half step back.
Tanya - both versions whiff about 50% of the time everywhere

 

[DarkFire*]

...Man... she's been getting ONLY nerfs since her release. She doesn't need anymore..... before you know it she'll be unviable

lol but seriously though, it's fair. Other characters do far worse nonsense now lmao. The "22% chip damage" is only if she has full meter, which she most likely will not have, as she has probably used it to either wake up with EX rekka, full combo, or to pressure you otherwise (which is escapable if you make the right read, as there are gaps in her pressure). Not to mention she will eventually run out of meter. And her teleport cancels aren't anywhere near as plus as they used to be. And if she delays the rekkas to make herself safe there's a gap as big as the Grand Canyon. Trust me she's more than fine now lol

 

[DET_BLAKEANATOR]

It doesn't jail everyone if they block the first hit of exTonfa while ducking, so you have a few frames to go from stand blocking to crouch blocking between the 2nd hit of b1 and the first hit of exTonfa.

It's fair because it costs meter and doesn't do that much chip. Combined with her teleport cancel, she can put alot of pressure on you but it's not free and it has gaps.

I made this list PRE-PATCH, so I guarantee nothing:

I tested both f2~ex tonfa toss and b1~ex tonfa toss and here are the results concerning the second hit of ex tonfa toss:

(It should jail on everyone not listed)

Shinnok - f2 always whiffs everywhere, b1 whiffs about 75% of the time everywhere.
Kung Lao - f2 and b1 work everywhere.
Sonya - f2 whiffs about 80% of the time midscreen, always in the corner. b1 whiffs 50% of the time midscreen, only whiffs point blank in the corner.
Scorpion - f2 always whiffs, but b1 ex tonfa hits about 75% of the time everywhere.
Sub Zero - both randomly whiff but f2 ex tonfa can always be ducked in the corner while b1 ex tonfa randomly whiffs.
Mileena - both methods randomly whiff about 66% of the time, f2 method always whiffs in the corner.
Cassie - both methods work like 95% of the time!
Jacqui - f2 always hits midscreen but always whiffs in corner, b1 whiffs about 50% of the time anywhere.
Kung Jin - f2 hits about 80% of the time, b1 always works midscreen, about 95% in the corner
Kano - f2 hits about 85% of the time midscreen, always whiffs in the corner, b1 works about 99% of the time midscreen and always works in the corner.
Reptile - f2 whiffs 85% of the time midscreen, always whiffs in the corner. b1 whiffs about 70% of the time everywhere.
D'Vorah - f2 always whiffs everywhere, b1 whiffs about 60% of the time midscreen, always whiffs point blank in the corner, but never whiffs from a half step back.
Tanya - both versions whiff about 50% of the time everywhere

Yes with female characters there is always a way out which is how it should be for everyone that's what I'm getting at, does it seem fair that just cuz I picked a certain male character I cant do shit against a 3bar Tanya when they start doing that? Even though I KNOW its coming

 

[ShaolinGunFu]

Girl chars can have low profiles, but they should be weaker and more vulnerable to damage than male chars to make it even stevens

 

[kevkopdx]

Yes with female characters there is always a way out which is how it should be for everyone that's what I'm getting at, does it seem fair that just cuz I picked a certain male character I cant do shit against a 3bar Tanya when they start doing that? Even though I KNOW its coming

really? youre complaining about a 3 bar 22% chip??? lol

 

[Rip Torn]

Yes with female characters there is always a way out which is how it should be for everyone that's what I'm getting at, does it seem fair that just cuz I picked a certain male character I cant do shit against a 3bar Tanya when they start doing that? Even though I KNOW its coming

If we had 1 bar block breakers, this wouldn't be a problem...
But think about it this way. If she uses all her meter on 22% chip, she has severely hadicapped herself for the rest of the match. She can't break any combo you do to her and she can't do any massive damage against you until she gets more meter. She also can't wake up.

Also, if she ends with rekkas, she is taking a risk by either leaving a gap, or ending up -20.

 

[DET_BLAKEANATOR]

...Man... she's been getting ONLY nerfs since her release. She doesn't need anymore..... before you know it she'll be unviable

lol but seriously though, it's fair. Other characters do far worse nonsense now lmao. The "22% chip damage" is only if she has full meter, which she most likely will not have, as she has probably used it to either wake up with EX rekka, full combo, or to pressure you otherwise (which is escapable if you make the right read, as there are gaps in her pressure). Not to mention she will eventually run out of meter. And her teleport cancels aren't anywhere near as plus as they used to be. And if she delays the rekkas to make herself safe there's a gap as big as the Grand Canyon. Trust me she's more than fine now lol

Against females it isn't guaranteed and its not like all of the sudden she is horrible against females......all I want is all characters should be able to have A OPTION against that. This would not make the character horrible in any way and she would still be amazing.

 

[DET_BLAKEANATOR]

really? youre complaining about a 3 bar 22% chip??? lol

That what lao used to get and people complained about that.

 

[DET_BLAKEANATOR]

OK let me just clarify to everyone before u mention "oh 22% chip for 3 bars haha" that's not the problem, the problem is with most of the male characters b1 EX tonfa cannot be escaped but all the female characters have an option to get out, I'm asking is it fair that all female characters have a way out, but just because I picked a male character with a regular hitbox I have absolutely no option out of pressure in the corner or midscreen against b1ex tonfa and she can just loop it depending on the meter situation? Hitboxes shouldn't be any issue when it comes to ducking the "HIGH" projectile in a string. Female's can do it so males just are not allowed to do such a thing apparently.

 

[buyacushun]

OK let me just clarify to everyone before u mention "oh 22% chip for 3 bars haha" that's not the problem, the problem is with most of the male characters b1 EX tonfa cannot be escaped but all the female characters have an option to get out, I'm asking is it fair that all female characters have a way out, but just because I picked a male character with a regular hitbox I have absolutely no option out of pressure in the corner or midscreen against b1ex tonfa and she can just loop it depending on the meter situation? Hitboxes shouldn't be any issue when it comes to ducking the "HIGH" projectile in a string. Females can do it so males just are not allowed to do such a thing apparently

I personally don't think loopable pressure is really fair but "fair" is used loosely here it seems. On one hand loopable chipping pressure sucks to have. But on the other hand there is tons worse stuff so people will justify this instance because it isn't as bad as other possibilities in MKX. Maybe if MKx toned a bunch of other things down, you'd be met with agreement. But right now I'd say this is going to stay for a while.

You'd also have to take into account general character tools. She is spending bar to do it. I don't know much about Tanya but there might be some MU stuff where this doesn't even matter. It's a bigger thing than just "Tanya has guaranteed EX pressure against certain characters".

 

[DET_BLAKEANATOR]

I personally don't think loopable pressure is really fair but "fair" is used loosely here it seems. On one hand loopable chipping pressure sucks to have. But on the other hand there is tons worse stuff so people will justify this instance because it isn't as bad as other possibilities in MKX. Maybe if MKx toned a bunch of other things down, you'd be met with agreement. But right now I'd say this is going to stay for a while.

You'd also have to take into account general character tools. She is spending bar to do it. I don't know much about Tanya but there might be some MU stuff where this doesn't even matter. It's a bigger thing than just "Tanya has guaranteed EX pressure against certain characters".

I agree with everything you said, just one thing that gets me, according to Tanya mains you never used to be able to Loop b1 EX tonfa back to back, so that must have come from the hitbox corrections in the patch. Can any Tanya mains confirm that?

 

[Dean]

Why don't we see meaningful threads about characters like Pred?

How Pred came out of that patch as good as he did still boggles my mind.

22% for three bars is only viable if your full meter trying to end the game.

This game is flawed in many areas, this flaw isn't as important as many other things in this game.

It's not a big deal, I don't know why anyone even cares.