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General/Other - Dragons Fire Liu kangs real frame data

cR Xarakamaka

cR Xarakamaka

Noob
so I've thought this for a long time but not asked others to test.

I believe after testing b1 is in fact 10 frames not 9 frame start up.

F4 is 11 maybe even 12 ? But think 11 and not 10 (please if someone can get 112 into f44 to jail , or after
44 and b34

If I set kl spin on reversal I can do f44 into f3 and beat it, yet I can't seem to hit f44 into s1 to jail?
F3 is quicker than 15 perhaps?
And 44 being plus 4 not plus 2(not sure on this at all but think maybe it is as can do 44 then f2 can beat kl reversal spin but don't know, I'm probably wrong on that one)
Can Liu kangs test these for themselves and get back to this post please? Thanks guys
@Phosferrax @Derptile @CURBOLICOUS
@AK L0rdoftheFLY @RM AtK! @KH_Seraph @AssassiN and anyone else I missed . Many thanks
 
P

Paaapiman

Noob
according to @GGA Dizzy most of the moves in this game actually hit 1 frame later than what the farme data shows, this is a copy paste from the johnny cage forums, you are probably experiencing this problem

Moves that are startup of 10f will hit on frame 11 at the earliest, regardless of it being a normal or special. Keep in mind that MKX in game frame data is listed as start up, not "impact" or "execution" as several other games, which just lists the first frame an attack will hit. So you essentially need to add 1 frame to the startup of an attack to calculate the actual frame it will connect.

This actually never changes, the only difference is with reversals, the "effective startup" is one frame shorter. The reality of the situation is one frame of blockstun is removed. No properties of the special change, it is just a unique characteristic of reversals in general for MKX.

So, for example, Jax f3 is 10f startup. Dash punch is 10f start up. If these moves are done in neutral, at the same exact frame, they will trade. However, Jax dash punch can punish -10 moves as a reversal, while f3 cannot. F3 can only punish -11 or higher. This is due to the reversal removing one frame of block stun.

Also keep in mind, up until the last patch, blocking moves crouching added one additional frame of blockstun, so if you did any testing while crouch blocking, the results will be different now since it was fixed.
Click to expand...
 
cR Xarakamaka

cR Xarakamaka

Noob
ESG Jagged said:
F4= 10
B34= 19
F3= 15
Click to expand...
F44 fb rc - f3 beats kl reversal spin , meaning either f44 fb rc is plus 9 in order to beat the 7 frame spin , or f3 is faster. Try to f44 into s1 and make it jail , I want to know if it's possible . then I can know the answer which it is. Also do 44 fb rc, b34 fb rc or 112 fb Rc into f44 and make it jail . can anyone do this? Also how do you know? Have you tested them yourself? There's no way I'm getting f4 at 10 frames :s , also b34 is 19? Huh :eek: ? I'm confused @Phosferrax put kl into the corner on reversal and do 44 on its own then do f213 , it should win. But f44 will lose :eek: I think f2 is quicker than f4 :eek:
 
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cR Xarakamaka

cR Xarakamaka

Noob
Paaapiman said:
according to @GGA Dizzy most of the moves in this game actually hit 1 frame later than what the farme data shows, this is a copy paste from the johnny cage forums, you are probably experiencing this problem
Click to expand...
Yeh I know but that's talking about taking a frame to unblock I'm talking about when Liu is the one pressuring an opponent
 
Dizzy

Dizzy

False Information Police Officer
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
No promises on how quick I'll get around to it, but if I feel up to it I'll get 100% true DF FB run cancel frame data for some of his more common used cancels, using recording equipment. F213, B12, F44, and F12 are probably what I'll start with.

I find Liu Kang pretty fun and might actually use him as an alt (for locals/experience) down the line. He's probably the most interesting char to me aside from Cage, which is why I'd bother with finding out the exact frame data
 
xXxNasHxXx

xXxNasHxXx

Mighty Champion of EarthRealm
maybe this video will help you guys to understand that f213 beats King Lao's spin after 44....
going to check this thing with Kotal's d1 and d4 tomorrow and the run cancels too...
 
cR Xarakamaka

cR Xarakamaka

Noob
GGA Dizzy said:
No promises on how quick I'll get around to it, but if I feel up to it I'll get 100% true DF FB run cancel frame data for some of his more common used cancels, using recording equipment. F213, B12, F44, and F12 are probably what I'll start with.

I find Liu Kang pretty fun and might actually use him as an alt (for locals/experience) down the line. He's probably the most interesting char to me aside from Cage, which is why I'd bother with finding out the exact frame data
Click to expand...
You legend! Also don't forget his true block strings after if you can (112, b34 and 44 fb rcs) , nice one though, I'm looking forward to hearing the results
 
Dizzy

Dizzy

False Information Police Officer
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
Hello fellow run cancel users,

Here is some numbers from me testing with recording to my PC. Should be totally accurate as I used the same way as I did to test JC A-List frame data.

F213 = +13
F44 = +8
B12 = 0
F12 = 0*

Note for F12, against standing opponents a bit further than point blank, it will hit on later active frames for the second hit causing it to be +1. Doesn't seem to affect crouching opponents and stays at 0 on block. You can visually see this happening in the example below:

F12 at 0 on block if FBRC:


F12 at +1 on block if FBRC


P.S. Don't mind that I was in FF when taking the screenshots, just grabbed it from another recording for convenience sake.

One last thing...the in-game frame data is correct for the startup for these four moves. I tested that while I was at it. If it hits later, there might be other hitbox issues going on that I am not aware but in all my recordings, it hit at the correct frame as indicated in the move list startup for all my tests.
 
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xXxNasHxXx

xXxNasHxXx

Mighty Champion of EarthRealm
Another video on f3 beating KL spin after f44 run cancels... decide yourself whether f44rc is more than +8 or f3's start up frames is less than 15f...
 
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Derptile

Derptile

RIP Ex Smash
GGA Dizzy said:
Hello fellow run cancel users,

Here is some numbers from me testing with recording to my PC. Should be totally accurate as I used the same way as I did to test JC A-List frame data.

F213 = +13
F44 = +8
B12 = 0
F12 = 0*
Click to expand...
Frame data hype.

That B12 FBRC being 0 on block is OD, and F44 FBRC is also godlike.
 
ZigZag

ZigZag

That Welsh Guy
GGA Dizzy said:
Hello fellow run cancel users,

Here is some numbers from me testing with recording to my PC. Should be totally accurate as I used the same way as I did to test JC A-List frame data.

F213 = +13
F44 = +8
B12 = 0
F12 = 0*

Note for F12, against standing opponents a bit further than point blank, it will hit on later active frames for the second hit causing it to be +1. Doesn't seem to affect crouching opponents and stays at 0 on block. You can visually see this happening in the example below:

F12 at 0 on block if FBRC:


F12 at +1 on block if FBRC


P.S. Don't mind that I was in FF when taking the screenshots, just grabbed it from another recording for convenience sake.

One last thing...the in-game frame data is correct for the startup for these four moves. I tested that while I was at it. If it hits later, there might be other hitbox issues going on that I am not aware but in all my recordings, it hit at the correct frame as indicated in the move list startup for all my tests.
Click to expand...
Couldn't be more of a good guy here, good stuff to know for certain!
 
xXxNasHxXx

xXxNasHxXx

Mighty Champion of EarthRealm
xarakamaka said:
Yeh see what I mean, but try doing f44 or b12 after it won't work :eek: I think
Click to expand...
I have done the tests and B12 beats KL spin but surprisingly B34 does too. Maybe some wierd hitbox. I think B12 is 9f but i am not 100% sure.
Going to test more frame data on fireball run cancels with strings like f44, 112, and f12 very soon.
 
cR Xarakamaka

cR Xarakamaka

Noob
xXxNasHxXx said:
I have done the tests and B12 beats KL spin but surprisingly B34 does too. Maybe some wierd hitbox. I think B12 is 9f but i am not 100% sure.
Going to test more frame data on fireball run cancels with strings like f44, 112, and f12 very soon.
Click to expand...
Yeh thanks, and try getting f44 to jail After them, I can't tell if I'm too slow :eek: I can do f213 jail easy after 112 44 but not f4 :eek: . Also I think that f3 must be 14 frame start up then as Dizzy has found f44 fbrc at plus 8 on his capture card
 
cR Xarakamaka

cR Xarakamaka

Noob
GGA Dizzy said:
Hello fellow run cancel users,

Here is some numbers from me testing with recording to my PC. Should be totally accurate as I used the same way as I did to test JC A-List frame data.

F213 = +13
F44 = +8
B12 = 0
F12 = 0*

Note for F12, against standing opponents a bit further than point blank, it will hit on later active frames for the second hit causing it to be +1. Doesn't seem to affect crouching opponents and stays at 0 on block. You can visually see this happening in the example below:

F12 at 0 on block if FBRC:


F12 at +1 on block if FBRC


P.S. Don't mind that I was in FF when taking the screenshots, just grabbed it from another recording for convenience sake.

One last thing...the in-game frame data is correct for the startup for these four moves. I tested that while I was at it. If it hits later, there might be other hitbox issues going on that I am not aware but in all my recordings, it hit at the correct frame as indicated in the move list startup for all my tests.
Click to expand...
Good stuff, I'm sure f4 and b1 have some type of hit box issues from previous testing :eek: I'm mega confused now lol. And also if you get a chance d4 fb rc might be around neutral, no ones posted about it yet I don't think, before patch could do d4 fbrc into f213 and beat kl spin if frame perfect I believe
 
cR Xarakamaka

cR Xarakamaka

Noob
CHALLENGE GUYS , do 112 fb rc, 44 fb rc or b34 fb rc followed up with f44 and MAKE IT JAIL :) , I'd like to know if anyone can do it as I haven't yet lol, jailing with f2 is easy compared to f4 for me
 
xXxNasHxXx

xXxNasHxXx

Mighty Champion of EarthRealm
xarakamaka said:
CHALLENGE GUYS , do 112 fb rc, 44 fb rc or b34 fb rc followed up with f44 and MAKE IT JAIL :) , I'd like to know if anyone can do it as I haven't yet lol, jailing with f2 is easy compared to f4 for me
Click to expand...
Tried doing D4 run cancels into F2 and F4 but didn't get any success. I think D4fbrc is 0 or -1 on block and here are my results with b34fbrc f44 and 112fbrc f44.
 
cR Xarakamaka

cR Xarakamaka

Noob
@Phosferrax @Derptile @GGA Dizzy @xXxNasHxXx @GiM | ZigZag @Ares_Supreme @AssassiN
@Bruno-NeoSpace @Scott The Scot


Just found our new fb rc!
f21u4 fb rc is plus 4 at least, it can beat kl reversal spin with a 10 frame follow up after, it does 0.5% more damage than f213 but doesn't work when you have them in the corner as push back is huge, so is a midscreen gimmick

F21u4 low fb is a true block string midscreen, no gap
F21u4 flying kick has gap but breaks a lot of armours and cannot be jumped out
F21u4 ex db2 trades hits but is safe vs kl ex spin (tempest) for example and does them more damage and knocks them down and leaving you standing
F21u4 bk ...... Don't bother unless they never seen it before

F21u4 gimmick
 
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Ares_Supreme

Ares_Supreme

Gaymer
xarakamaka said:
@Phosferrax @Derptile @GGA Dizzy @xXxNasHxXx @GiM | ZigZag @Ares_Supreme @AssassiN
@Bruno-NeoSpace @Scott The Scot


Just found our new fb rc!
f21u4 fb rc is plus 4 at least, it can beat kl reversal spin with a 10 frame follow up after, it does 0.5% more damage than f213 but doesn't work when you have them in the corner as push back is huge, so is a midscreen gimmick

F21u4 low fb is a true block string midscreen, no gap
F21u4 flying kick has gap but breaks a lot of armours and cannot be jumped out
F21u4 ex db2 trades hits but is safe vs kl ex spin (tempest) for example and does them more damage and knocks them down and leaving you standing
F21u4 bk ...... Don't bother unless they never seen it before

F21u4 gimmick
Click to expand...
Very nice! I will try it out.
 
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