Liu Kang general discussion.

[JHCRANE 14]

Just now discovering and learning to play with Liu Kang. Imo he has to be one of the best pure zoners in the game. I love it.

 

[The Highlander]

Yea his zoning is strong!

Do you guys use his dragon's breath as an anti air?

And is anybody using anyone else other than Kung Lao as a kameo? Feel like the grab combo is uniquely important to LK, but I also feel like there's unexplored potential with some of kameos

 

[The Highlander]

Also, his 'pop goes the...' brutality says hold forward but the text says must be holding back, which is it?

 

[Careerpancakes]

Yea his zoning is strong!

Do you guys use his dragon's breath as an anti air?

And is anybody using anyone else other than Kung Lao as a kameo? Feel like the grab combo is uniquely important to LK, but I also feel like there's unexplored potential with some of kameos

dragon's breath is my go to anti air

I use sektor kameo. Kung Lao is mostly better. Sektor uppercut lets you knock people out of their projectile armor and is a mid screen combo starter. Full screen uppercut can be converted into but I've never done it in a real match and the damage is like 5% to 7% more.
You can theoretically use up missile to throw people in the corner for a 20-25 combo but again I don't use it when I'm playing so I'm not sure how consistent it is.

 

[derOeler]

Also, his 'pop goes the...' brutality says hold forward but the text says must be holding back, which is it?

Forward.
Holding Back is the name of the string.

 

[Ray'sGoodLiquor]

I'm seeing a lot of high level Liu players ending combos in DB4 instead of BF3 or BF4. Is this for damage or does it set up a dash in meaty?

 

[Careerpancakes]

I'm seeing a lot of high level Liu players ending combos in DB4 instead of BF3 or BF4. Is this for damage or does it set up a dash in meaty?

Dash in meaty.

 

[Ptehu]

Just wondering now... did he silently sneaked into absolute top tier?

Synergy with Lao, annoying +frames, strong zoning, ability to combo after throw, couple mix ups

Recently I see more and more Lius and its kind of hard for me to react.

I guess he is still not JC, Raiden and Kenshi level but I would probably put him somewhere after them. Of course, speaking purely from casual POV.

 

[Ray'sGoodLiquor]

Just wondering now... did he silently sneaked into absolute top tier?

Synergy with Lao, annoying +frames, strong zoning, ability to combo after throw, couple mix ups

Recently I see more and more Lius and its kind of hard for me to react.

I guess he is still not JC, Raiden and Kenshi level but I would probably put him somewhere after them. Of course, speaking purely from casual POV.

He has good synergy with Motaro too but don't tell anybody.

 

[GeoffBedlam]

I find myself playing mid-range and zoning a lot more with Liu when I'm unfamiliar with the matchup or have to play offense. I lost to a Shao earlier because they kept deflecting projectiles with Motaro and waiting for me to come in before whiff punishing me with s2. I feel like I'm missing something here. I have Lao with him for the most part and it does give me good pressure when I'm actually in their face, but it's the getting in their face in the first place that I'm struggling with hahah

 

[The Highlander]

I find myself playing mid-range and zoning a lot more with Liu when I'm unfamiliar with the matchup or have to play offense. I lost to a Shao earlier because they kept deflecting projectiles with Motaro and waiting for me to come in before whiff punishing me with s2. I feel like I'm missing something here. I have Lao with him for the most part and it does give me good pressure when I'm actually in their face, but it's the getting in their face in the first place that I'm struggling with hahah

He has a really good dash, so I've been abusing that, but tbh I'm in the same boat learning him.

 

[Ray'sGoodLiquor]

I played Liu/Lao at my locals this weekend and got counter picked twice with Sub Zero kameo. I'm strongly considering switching to Motaro.

Lao seems to be much better for zoners where Motaro is a lot better at facilitating pressure and bypassing footsies. There's a lot of counter pick options for zoners right now but not nearly as much to counter pressure.

EX BFS OS, low dragon into teleport, EX fireball knockdown, and canceling out of combo enders into teleport are most of his options to force his way in. I'm also finding that if you wakeup with EX DB4 or EX BF3, you can block confirm and teleport out to avoid being punished. You can sometimes whiff punish their punish if they overcommit to their string.

 

[Ray'sGoodLiquor]

I played Liu/Lao at my locals this weekend and got counter picked twice with Sub Zero kameo. I'm strongly considering switching to Motaro.

Lao seems to be much better for zoners where Motaro is a lot better at facilitating pressure and bypassing footsies. There's a lot of counter pick options for zoners right now but not nearly as much to counter pressure.

EX BFS OS, low dragon into teleport, EX fireball knockdown, and canceling out of combo enders into teleport are most of his options to force his way in. I'm also finding that if you wakeup with EX DB4 or EX BF3, you can block confirm and teleport out to avoid being punished. You can sometimes whiff punish their punish if they overcommit to their string.

Got some footage of Motaro's ability to capitalize off your armored moves getting blocked.

 

[Ray'sGoodLiquor]

You can get a meaty 50/50 when a random tail shot (+5 on block and +31 on hit) lands after a block string.

Dummy chart

 

[The Highlander]

You can get a meaty 50/50 when a random tail shot (+5 on block and +31 on hit) lands after a block string.

Dummy chart
View attachment 21225

Sick stuff dude

 

[Ray'sGoodLiquor]

Sick stuff dude

I'm shocked at how unpopular Liu is. He definitely needs some lab love and I've probably got a while before Ermac comes out. I wanna mess around with some other kameos but his throw loops are so strong that he really needs to get a lot in return for giving up a teleport. Lao/Motaro seems to be his best option unless you're trying to counter pick.

 

[The Highlander]

I'm shocked at how unpopular Liu is. He definitely needs some lab love and I've probably got a while before Ermac comes out. I wanna mess around with some other kameos but his throw loops are so strong that he really needs to get a lot in return for giving up a teleport. Lao/Motaro seems to be his best option unless you're trying to counter pick.

He's fun, he's solid, but if you want to zone you'll probably pick someone better at dedicated zoning, and if you want to mix people with plus frames you'll be on the Johnny train unfortunately.

When Lao inevitably gets nerfed I fear Liu will feel it worse than some others. We'll still have Motaro for the throw stuff and Stryker is solid as a back-up

 

[Ray'sGoodLiquor]

He's fun, he's solid, but if you want to zone you'll probably pick someone better at dedicated zoning, and if you want to mix people with plus frames you'll be on the Johnny train unfortunately.

When Lao inevitably gets nerfed I fear Liu will feel it worse than some others. We'll still have Motaro for the throw stuff and Stryker is solid as a back-up

I'm not particularly fond of zoning in this game so far. There's too many tools to avoid it. Even being one of the best zoners isn't really enough to get anywhere on zoning alone. I've mostly landed on Liu because he's pretty good at everything and his damage is on the high end. His corner game is also exceptionally oppressive.

For the way I play, I've already switched to Motaro from Lao. "Hard-to-blockables" don't really exist in this game due to the safety window NRS added for defenders, so holding low hat doesn't get the milage that it would from previous MK games. The only place Lao really shines is if you want to sit past jump range and throw fireballs. If you're using low hat for plus frames, Motaro is already better.

Tail shot is the alternative to low hat. It has better plus frames on block, and both have a gap that can be armored. This gives you the option of f14 or 22 in your pressure without getting mashed out. I haven't tested it with low hat but the tail shot on hit leads to a meaty 50/50. It also has armor but it's not very reliable. You can use it for mid range zoning but it doesn't have much presence beyond that.

Motaro's teleport is just better. It starts faster and has faster recover. Both teleports open up your throw-strike game, but Motaro's teleport is fast enough to be used outside of that. You can occasionally use it as an oh shit button to pull you out of a bad situation if you over commit or miss a hit confirm. Lao's teleport has armor but it's too slow and too unreliable. Motaro's teleport is also better at grabbing you when you're moving or in the air, so it's less prone to whiffing and can be used in more situations where Lao would whiff.

Spin used to be really good but the nerfs made it a lot less useful for Liu. Most of the time I don't want to be left at full screen, and spin reversal/wakeup does that now. I think DB4 and BF4 are both better armor options, and if you get baited and throw one out on block, Motaro's teleport can bail you out and potentially let you whiff punish.

On top of that, Motaro get's two extra moves in reflect and tail turret. Tail turret kind of sucks because it's really hard to get out safely. You can use it in his corner play, but in doing so, you're usually giving up 40%+ damage and a corner mixup/free jump. Reflect is a huge quality of life move in some matchups. I use it constantly against Reiko. The walking reflect is also really strong and I prefer using it for walk-ins over low hat since I don't have to worry about projectiles. Walking reflect is also on the screen longer than a held low hat. Holding low hat gives you 2 free projectile throws before it ends. Walking reflect gives you 4.

I think Stryker is a good option if you flat out don't care about throw mixups. One of the batons gives some plus frames and it gives you a lot more opportunities to play oki. Handcuff is probably better served on other characters since Liu lacks OH/L mixups and throw/strike is neutered without the teleport. Grenades don't work that great as a zoning tool but they're very frustrating to play against when used for pressure. It sucks when you get a clean punish and a grenade slaps you in the forehead on the 2nd hit.

If I wanted to play him as a pure zoner, I'd probably go Sareena. She can push Liu's damage to old Raiden levels and has probably the best kameo armored reversal. Her meter burning portal fits well into his corner game and when you're doing 45% per touch in the corner, preventing a single breaker usually means you're taking the round.

 

[The Highlander]

I'm not particularly fond of zoning in this game so far. There's too many tools to avoid it. Even being one of the best zoners isn't really enough to get anywhere on zoning alone. I've mostly landed on Liu because he's pretty good at everything and his damage is on the high end. His corner game is also exceptionally oppressive.

For the way I play, I've already switched to Motaro from Lao. "Hard-to-blockables" don't really exist in this game due to the safety window NRS added for defenders, so holding low hat doesn't get the milage that it would from previous MK games. The only place Lao really shines is if you want to sit past jump range and throw fireballs. If you're using low hat for plus frames, Motaro is already better.

Tail shot is the alternative to low hat. It has better plus frames on block, and both have a gap that can be armored. This gives you the option of f14 or 22 in your pressure without getting mashed out. I haven't tested it with low hat but the tail shot on hit leads to a meaty 50/50. It also has armor but it's not very reliable. You can use it for mid range zoning but it doesn't have much presence beyond that.

Motaro's teleport is just better. It starts faster and has faster recover. Both teleports open up your throw-strike game, but Motaro's teleport is fast enough to be used outside of that. You can occasionally use it as an oh shit button to pull you out of a bad situation if you over commit or miss a hit confirm. Lao's teleport has armor but it's too slow and too unreliable. Motaro's teleport is also better at grabbing you when you're moving or in the air, so it's less prone to whiffing and can be used in more situations where Lao would whiff.

Spin used to be really good but the nerfs made it a lot less useful for Liu. Most of the time I don't want to be left at full screen, and spin reversal/wakeup does that now. I think DB4 and BF4 are both better armor options, and if you get baited and throw one out on block, Motaro's teleport can bail you out and potentially let you whiff punish.

On top of that, Motaro get's two extra moves in reflect and tail turret. Tail turret kind of sucks because it's really hard to get out safely. You can use it in his corner play, but in doing so, you're usually giving up 40%+ damage and a corner mixup/free jump. Reflect is a huge quality of life move in some matchups. I use it constantly against Reiko. The walking reflect is also really strong and I prefer using it for walk-ins over low hat since I don't have to worry about projectiles. Walking reflect is also on the screen longer than a held low hat. Holding low hat gives you 2 free projectile throws before it ends. Walking reflect gives you 4.

I think Stryker is a good option if you flat out don't care about throw mixups. One of the batons gives some plus frames and it gives you a lot more opportunities to play oki. Handcuff is probably better served on other characters since Liu lacks OH/L mixups and throw/strike is neutered without the teleport. Grenades don't work that great as a zoning tool but they're very frustrating to play against when used for pressure. It sucks when you get a clean punish and a grenade slaps you in the forehead on the 2nd hit.

If I wanted to play him as a pure zoner, I'd probably go Sareena. She can push Liu's damage to old Raiden levels and has probably the best kameo armored reversal. Her meter burning portal fits well into his corner game and when you're doing 45% per touch in the corner, preventing a single breaker usually means you're taking the round.

I agree with basically all of this yea, except to add that spin is still pretty useful for Liu. It gives better meterless and one bar combo's both midscreen and in the corner, plus it lets you side switch which is huge considering Liu's corner game. It just doesn't do much as a reversal.

 

[Ray'sGoodLiquor]

A little birdy told me that Lao's low hat will not have plus frames after the Quan Chi patch. Time to go practice your Motaro.

 

[The Highlander]

I'm thinking Sareena and Stryker will move up on the list too. Sareena gets you HUGE dmg, Stryker lets you play a little more YOLO. I've been messing around with Sonya too, haven't found anything super dirty yet though. She gives you more aerial control, and a little more dmg in both the corner and midscreen, plus the forward throw is nice.

But yea Motaro for his throw combo, plus reflect will probably make him number 1 for me at least.

I think most are gonna hop on the stryker train, and he'll be next up on the chopping block of too universally good

 

[Ray'sGoodLiquor]

I'm thinking Sareena and Stryker will move up on the list too. Sareena gets you HUGE dmg, Stryker lets you play a little more YOLO. I've been messing around with Sonya too, haven't found anything super dirty yet though. She gives you more aerial control, and a little more dmg in both the corner and midscreen, plus the forward throw is nice.

But yea Motaro for his throw combo, plus reflect will probably make him number 1 for me at least.

I think most are gonna hop on the stryker train, and he'll be next up on the chopping block of too universally good

There's no reason not to. Lao will still likely keep his hard to blockables from holding low, but Liu doesn't really get as much from those as other characters. My guess going forward for the best options.

Zoning- Sareena
Pressure- Motaro
Hybrid- Stryker

I don't think Khameleon will do much for us, especially knowing that there's a timer based element to her. Any time you push a button in a fighting game and you don't know exactly what's going to come out is usually a worst case scenario. The added complexity to Kameos from her and Tremor don't seem as rewarding as it should be. Usually when you're forced to micromanage something besides your character in a fighting game, you get something big for it. In MK1, it doesn't seem like increased complexity is rewarded in any way.

 

[Trustful_Whale]

Just pulled this shit out of the shrine.

 

[Ray'sGoodLiquor]

Low hat got nerfed and Motaro got buffed.

 

[The Highlander]

So... motaro's low shot is now +13 BUT with pushback. In the corner that's pretty nuts, and midscreen you can get a micro dash b2, standing 1, or f4, and the opponent has different options for each. B2 seems pretty guaranteed (besides armoring out) if timed well. The main issue with motaro is that it's full combo punishable from standing 1's and can be d1 checked with the right timing.

Just pulled this shit out of the shrine.

View attachment 21286

Finally a cool Liu skin!