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Liu Kang balance/change wishlist

MURK

Noob
Universal:

Imo allow his high fireballs to not whiff up close against characters crouch blocking. It should be treated the same as if it was being used long range.

Keep f2 the way it is. If you want an overhead, start utilizing the quick jump options in your pressure.

Just a wish but if they do change f4 (I assume increase the start up), make it a low. It has decent range but not the best range so changing it to a low wouldn't change the defensive gameplan against kang at all. Blocking low against kang is a normal method. Honestly tho, I don't think f4 should be touched at all.

1,2 no longer whiffs on females but as a fair trade off, make it plus 2 or plus 1 on block so that way it isn't used mindlessly. Similar to his d3 in mkx. Will liu go for the non jailing string after or a guaranteed d1? Simple mathematics

Allow flying kick to go over low projectiles and low normals

Fix hitbox issues of course

Tele Variation:

Allow all options of teleport to count towards a combo instead of just the high option

Fix the whiffing of his teleports overhead option. I've noticed that sometimes when the overhead option is used, liu ends up appearing directly behind the opponent even if they don't move.

Allow his teleport overhead to catch opponents neutral jumping

This is a wishful buff but allow his flame buff cancel to combo after it is canceled on hit. Similar to flame fist/dualist back in mkx

Low fireball variation:

First hit of his shaolin stance, 2 start out as an overhead or make it minus 7 on block if the first hit is not changed to an overhead

Allow liu to safely cancel OUT of his shaolin stance without getting punished for it since we're spending defensive meter to do it.

A wishful buff but give his shaolin stance, 2 a mb option to launch for more combo potential


Imo other than these changes and wishful buffs, liu is fine
 

Wrubez

The Flow Instructor
Universal:

Imo allow his high fireballs to not whiff up close against characters crouch blocking. It should be treated the same as if it was being used long range.

Keep f2 the way it is. If you want an overhead, start utilizing the quick jump options in your pressure.

Just a wish but if they do change f4 (I assume increase the start up), make it a low. It has decent range but not the best range so changing it to a low wouldn't change the defensive gameplan against kang at all. Blocking low against kang is a normal method. Honestly tho, I don't think f4 should be touched at all.

1,2 no longer whiffs on females but as a fair trade off, make it plus 2 or plus 1 on block so that way it isn't used mindlessly. Similar to his d3 in mkx. Will liu go for the non jailing string after or a guaranteed d1? Simple mathematics

Allow flying kick to go over low projectiles and low normals

Fix hitbox issues of course

Tele Variation:

Allow all options of teleport to count towards a combo instead of just the high option

Fix the whiffing of his teleports overhead option. I've noticed that sometimes when the overhead option is used, liu ends up appearing directly behind the opponent even if they don't move.

Allow his teleport overhead to catch opponents neutral jumping

This is a wishful buff but allow his flame buff cancel to combo after it is canceled on hit. Similar to flame fist/dualist back in mkx

Low fireball variation:

First hit of his shaolin stance, 2 start out as an overhead or make it minus 7 on block if the first hit is not changed to an overhead

Allow liu to safely cancel OUT of his shaolin stance without getting punished for it since we're spending defensive meter to do it.

A wishful buff but give his shaolin stance, 2 a mb option to launch for more combo potential


Imo other than these changes and wishful buffs, liu is fine
I actually like a lot of these. Especially the MB option with Shaolin Stance 2 for combo potential. I feel like Liu is a little too vanilla right now and could really use a metered launcher. Especially since F3333 is really your only combo opener for real damage. No one uses F2...

...Which brings me to my counter point...F2 I recommended become an overhead in my last post but as a compromise, either make the startup faster or make it an advancing mid. It is straight butt cheeks right now and has almost no utility save for flashy combo extension (with hella damage scaling..more on that in a second) or a gimmicky anti air in the corner.

If F2 being an overhead would be too OP, then it needs to do slightly more damage on top of the suggestions above. Scaling should at least be adjusted at a minimum.

Really like your Shaolin Stance ideas. I think it’s a no brainer that Cancelling should not be so negative. Jacqui can cancel her stings at will but Liu has a gimmick cancel? Math doesn’t add up there. Let us be neutral if it’s gonna cost us a bar. Also reiterating having a MB launcher. Would be really cool do to a combo with F43 DD1(2mb) etc etc

And yes for the love of god leave F4 alone. If the changes above are implemented then MAYBE increase the start up by like ONE frame. Dude has no advancing attacks otherwise and even F4 doesn’t come close to the range of a lot of characters (looking at you Sonya, Geras, Kabal, etc)
 

Under_The_Mayo

Master of Quanculations
Premium Supporter
If I were to give Liu Kang a score out of 100, I'd give him an 85. And that's where I wish everyone could be. In that 75-90 range. Don't buff him. He's a solid character with some flaws. And that's what everyone should be at the end of the day. Just fix any hitbox issues.
 

BuffRaiden

GIMMEMAMONEYYYYY
F4 ought to be 11 frames to give the b1 actual utility. B1 is just a fake out tool right now. He’s a boring character to play and even more boring to play against. I’d like f3 or f2 to be reworked so we’d actually see something other than the linear f4 gameplay we typically see.

But that’s problem with most of these top characters. Very one dimensional.

Although I don’t need think Liu Kang is top, injustice 2 was Justin so much more creative with character design and combo routes.
 

Wrubez

The Flow Instructor
F4 ought to be 11 frames to give the b1 actual utility. B1 is just a fake out tool right now. He’s a boring character to play and even more boring to play against. I’d like f3 or f2 to be reworked so we’d actually see something other than the linear f4 gameplay we typically see.

But that’s problem with most of these top characters. Very one dimensional.

Although I don’t need think Liu Kang is top, injustice 2 was Justin so much more creative with character design and combo routes.
While I don’t disagree (except for nerfing F4), I think the overall theme here is adjustment for variety. Variety keeps us coming back for more. MKX was too rush down focused but I would be lying if I said I didn’t enjoy finding new tech and combo routes because there were SO many.

A lot of folks say that if we just opened up allowing custom characters, a lot of issues would be resolved. Well, that may be true for some of the cast...not so much for Liu.

His nunchaku stance stinks and has no pressure utility, Shaolin vanish is a complete joke, flame buff is cool for damage increase but offers no other variety, and teleport would be so much cooler if it had extension properties like meter burning into a launcher or something (thinking like MKX smoke’s teleport launcher).

The command grab is prob the only non-tourney ability that would be viable...but for pressuring your opponent more than anything. Gives you a touch more variety but could see it being stale at the end of the day.

I get that the meta is focused on neutral and footsies at the expense of long ass combos but some chars (like Liu) become stale fast.

I think it would be a good idea for NRS to review the cast as a whole and decide on what would be the best compromise for balancing variety and the neutral meta. Much, much easier said than done. I’m all for them taking their time to release a fully tested balance patch though if they revisit some aspects mentioned above.

In lieu of a balance patch being released sooner than later - a patch to fix whiffing and hurtbox needs to be released ASAP as that is more of a bug than balance.
 

gam224

The world's least hype player
Premium Supporter
Make flying kick a mid so wu shi doesn’t get shafted. Make his buff in wu shi 2in1 cancellable like flame fist in mkx. 2nd hit of air fireball should get a larger hitbox due to inconsistency. Make energy parry faster. Make it so that Liu only gets access to one kB throw per match.
 

gam224

The world's least hype player
Premium Supporter
Re work Shaolin vanish into being punishable off all options, remove overhead option and repurpose the animation for an ex teleport. The teleport now is just kinda dumb.
 

Lightaero

Liu Kang/Noob Saibot
F2 needs a change, and I still think making it an overhead - even with a hard knockdown instead of a pop up - is the best option. Both in order to make F2 a move people will actually use, and to give Liu Kang the true overhead he needs.

Even if you were to keep the range short, like it is currently, but change it to function similarly to his B2 from MKX would make a huge difference. It should be a move you use to punish people who only block low during your pressure, but still do a reasonable amount of damage and be unsafe enough to require some thought to go into when it's used. Right now there's almost no reason to stand block against Liu Kang, and when you need to you can see it coming from a mile away.

Saying Liu Kang doesnt need an overhead because you can use short hop instead is a ridiculous argument, especially when the entire cast has short hop and jump in overheads. We're discussing a character who's only other overhead option is from a stance that, not only are you forced to commit to, but if you're not getting poked out of it instantly you're going to be punished even if you cancel it by anyone who knows the matchup.
 

LawAbidingCitizen

Cyrax, Kotal Kahn, NightWolf & Shang Tsung.
He has a fucked up hurtbox that makes several characters wiff while he is crouched and crouch blocking, that needs to be fixed. And fix his hitbox issues.
 

gam224

The world's least hype player
Premium Supporter
If we’re giving Liu Kang an overhead it should be a variation / selectable move. I think it would be cool if he got his old mkx back 2 as a variation move that would replace his current back 2.